vvvslaxman Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 The euro was a big mistake, and Greece is paying the price http://www.vox.com/2015/6/30/8868973/euro-greece-crisis-mistake
zen Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Euro could work for some countries, it may not work for others .... In case of Greece, it made it uncompetitive
mishra Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Growth of Greece under Euro have been phenomenoal. But now Greece is paying the price for not balancing the books. To blame it to Euro is absurd. Even UK which uses pound, had to take tough decisions on its state benefit system. In past few years, Euro have been able to minimize the risk in case Greek defaults. Its about time Greeks understand this reality that EU cant be blackmailed any further. Greeks got to man up and honor various treaties and arrangements.
gattaca Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Growth of Greece under Euro have been phenomenoal. But now Greece is paying the price for not balancing the books. To blame it to Euro is absurd. Even UK which uses pound had to take tough decisions on its state benefit system. In past few years' date=' Euro have been able to minimize the risk in case Greek defaults. Its about time Greeks understand this reality that EU cant be blackmailed any further. Greeks got to man up and honor various treaties and arrangements.[/quote'] Cooking books is really bad. The whole currency is based on trust. They are going to take every one down. I don't see them staying with euro for long. Their already outrage among people not getting pensions and banks closing.
mishra Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Cooking books is really bad. The whole currency is based on trust. They are going to take every one down. I don't see them staying with euro for long. Their already outrage among people not getting pensions and banks closing. The position of this socialist Tspirias is that he doesnt want to pay his debt, but at the same time he wants to use euro and ECB. They want to saty in EU as Greeks totally rely on Europe when it comes to earning. The announcement of referendum was death nail to any trust he has had with European creditors. It has become personal thing too. Unless he has chalked out something with Mr Putin in his last trip, I have serious doubt that EU creditors and leaders want to welcome him in board room meetings or in picking up his call.
Kalia_Test Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 The irony in the title - Greece is actually not paying the price :cantstop:
diga Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 one of the comments in a blog Greece blaming Germany for the Greek tragedy seems equivalent to Mallya blaming the banks for the KFA Crisis ;) :haha:
mishra Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 News is-Greek FM Varoufakis 'will resign' if Greek people vote Yes. I think Tsipras should resign. Now
asterix Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 Shades of AAP in Syriza? Alex "Arvind" Tsipras? :dontknow:
BeautifulGame Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 The position of this socialist Tspirias is that he doesnt want to pay his debt, but at the same time he wants to use euro and ECB. They want to saty in EU as Greeks totally rely on Europe when it comes to earning. The announcement of referendum was death nail to any trust he has had with European creditors. It has become personal thing too. Unless he has chalked out something with Mr Putin in his last trip, I have serious doubt that EU creditors and leaders want to welcome him in board room meetings or in picking up his call. It's definitely not that simple. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/02/imf-greece-needs-extra-50bn-euros Also if he accepted the terms initially it would have been akin to political suicide .His left support would have hounded him out . And now if he gets No referendum he will be democratically armed to go for Grexit .And regardless what Merkel says now neither France nor Germany would want a Greece exit from Euros . Italy probably next in line for similar crisis as well .
zen Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 It is a tough choice for the Greeks .... Unless Greece does not become competitive, there is no point in adapting the Euro. It will keep on digging a deeper hole for itself which will impact other countries as well Look at it at this way: Currently, 1 Bangladeshi Taka (BDT) = roughly 0.80 Indian Rupee (INR) Now imagine Bangladesh adapts INR: a) In the short term, its economy would appear to be doing well as there is more money for their products and services b) However, to be sustainable BD would have to become as competitive as India c) If it continues to be noncompetitive, it economy would suffer (negative growth rate, unemployment, etc.) To simplify things: Say a movie ticket in BD costs 10 Taka or 8 INR. In Ind, the price is 10 INR a) By adapting INR, BD movie industry is likely to price the ticket at 10 INR b) In the short term, it would do well. However, gradually, its costs would rise too c) If the standard of Bangla films does not improve (vs. the increase in costs), people would prefer to spend the same amount on say Bollywood films d) Bangla movie industry would suffer if it does not bring its movie standards to Bollywood levels e) If allowed to continue, Bangla film industry would probably shut down
Donal Cozzie Posted July 2, 2015 Posted July 2, 2015 EU needs to revert back to what it was originally intended to be, a trade bloc between states with free movement of goods and labour, not the beurocratic, German/french serving monster it's become. And Greece needs to just default ASAP and start over, better off going through a tough couple years followed by normal conditions as opposed to decades of austerity
Precambrian Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 It is a tough choice for the Greeks .... Unless Greece does not become competitive, there is no point in adapting the Euro. It will keep on digging a deeper hole for itself which will impact other countries as well Look at it at this way: Currently, 1 Bangladeshi Taka (BDT) = roughly 0.80 Indian Rupee (INR) Now imagine Bangladesh adapts INR: a) In the short term, its economy would appear to be doing well as there is more money for their products and services b) However, to be sustainable BD would have to become as competitive as India c) If it continues to be noncompetitive, it economy would suffer (negative growth rate, unemployment, etc.) To simplify things: Say a movie ticket in BD costs 10 Taka or 8 INR. In Ind, the price is 10 INR a) By adapting INR, BD movie industry is likely to price the ticket at 10 INR b) In the short term, it would do well. However, gradually, its costs would rise too c) If the standard of Bangla films does not improve (vs. the increase in costs), people would prefer to spend the same amount on say Bollywood films d) Bangla movie industry would suffer if it does not bring its movie standards to Bollywood levels e) If allowed to continue, Bangla film industry would probably shut down I don't think its the right example. India follows Rupee all over the coutnry, but are goods and services priced at the same levels? Further its not adoption of currency but opening up of economy that has created the hypothetical issue in ur example.
mishra Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 It's definitely not that simple. http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/02/imf-greece-needs-extra-50bn-euros Also if he accepted the terms initially it would have been akin to political suicide .His left support would have hounded him out . And now if he gets No referendum he will be democratically armed to go for Grexit .And regardless what Merkel says now neither France nor Germany would want a Greece exit from Euros . Italy probably next in line for similar crisis as well . Problem is most Greecs believe that they are facing this austerity because they are repaying the loan on debt. This notion is entirely wrong. They are still spending more then they earn. Once out of EU, It will be very difficult for them to approach any creditor, except may be Russia, China Political leaders arent telling the truth to local i.e Even in case of grexit and complete write down of debts, They will have to go for greater austerity measures. Possibility that other states may go same way is very little. But legally it will open the door of EU exit
zen Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 I don't think its the right example. India follows Rupee all over the coutnry, but are goods and services priced at the same levels? Further its not adoption of currency but opening up of economy that has created the hypothetical issue in ur example. A variety of factors would come in to play, but as I said it is a simple example not intended to take in to account every possible complexity With Ind and BD in a Euro style relations, a lot of Ind money would flow in to BD too, along with other factors, which would increase prices Also once a country adapts common currency, it loses the right to control its currency (using Euro rules). For e.g. if exports are down due to being uncompetitive, the country cannot devalue its currency to boost exports. To keep up with the leaders, it has to remain as competitive
zen Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 They are still spending more then they earn. Profit = Revenue - Cost It appears as if you are focused on the cost side. One can only reduce costs to a certain extent. To drive growth, one has to increase revenues too
randomGuy Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 I guess Europe lacks unity among member countries req. to have a common currency... Different states of India also have their budgets, they also take loans from the center. If they can't repay, then the center can delay or waive off, the state can cut its expenditure etc...there is never the talk of ousting the state from the country, like there has been in case of Greece and European Union
mishra Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 Profit = Revenue - Cost It appears as if you are focused on the cost side. One can only reduce costs to a certain extent. To drive growth, one has to increase revenues too Are you serious? Revenue is responsibility of Greeks? Right? If I go to a bank for increasing credit limit of my credit card while I am struggling to pay previous credit card bill. Now Bank will ask me If I got a new job which is gonna pay me more or if I got a way to cut down my expenses i.e. Some big ills like schools fees, mortgage and so on. Socialist like Tsipras have no clue about real world.
zen Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 Are you serious? Revenue is responsibility of Greeks? Right? If I go to a bank for increasing credit limit of my credit card while I am struggling to pay previous credit card bill. Now Bank will ask me If I got a new job which is gonna pay me more or if I got a way to cut down my expenses i.e. Some big ills like schools fees, mortgage and so on. Socialist like Tsipras have no clue about real world. Agree. But costs can only be cut to a certain extent. If you had immaculate control over all the costs, why would you ask for a credit limit on your card? And if you are cutting down on school fees, than without relevant education, your future could be even bleaker. So does this help in the long run? Eventually, you will have to get a better paying job (the revenue side). So my question is what initiatives can make this happen for Greece?
mishra Posted July 3, 2015 Posted July 3, 2015 Agree. But costs can only be cut to a certain extent. If you had immaculate control over all the costs, why would you ask for a credit limit on your card? And if you are cutting down on school fees, than without relevant education, your future could be even bleaker. So does this help in the long run? Eventually, you will have to get a better paying job (the revenue side). So my question is what initiatives can make this happen for Greece? Public Schools are free. You dont need to attend private lessons all the time. Enough euphemism. First step is to balance the books. All those guys you see marching on streets half of them are pensioners. All fit and healthy. Even people in India with average life expectency atleast 20 years less then greecs retire at 62. Greeks want to retire at 60. To top it pension is very high Cost of living in Greece isnt High. Tax collection is allmost as good as India. Most of dealing are in cash. Needs big reform. Productivity is very poor e.g. Schools remain closed half the year while teaches are paid for the year.
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