Khalpat Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 How good a Prime Minister of country has been cannot be judged on the basis of how good or bad that person himself was? Or how educated the person was? Or else there is nothing to debate, the best were Lal Bahadur, Manmohan Singh, Rajeev Gandhi and worst 3: Indira Gandhi, Nehru and Modi. Prime Minister should be rated on the basis of differnece between legacy he got and legacy he left, the bold and visionary steps he took, the leadership qualities, how he gets his things work , how he overcome the challenges and which of the good things in my present life has some relation with what one of the PM did many years back. Lets see the good things about India which we can feel now: 1. Indian families give emphasis on education: Legacy of Nehru 2. Indians have a great secular fabric: Legacy of Nehru (c/f by everyone except Indira) 3. I have a good job in multinational even though I am not graduate from premier institute : Legacy of NArsimha Rao, Vajpayee and MMS 4. We have a healthy democracy: Legacy of Nehru (c/f by almost everyone except Indira) 5. After 1947, we have added land in our country not surrendered: Legacy of Nehru, Shastri, Indira 6. A good percentage of Indian kids and parents still maintain that by hard work and dedication we can go to top position: LEgacy of Shastri and our current PM will be good example after he retires 7. Millions like me have comeout from poverty and enjoying the lifestyle of middle class: NArsimha Rao, Vajpayee and MMS 8. Huge infrastructure projects coming up everywhere: Legacy of Vajpayee 9. Institutes supporting government are still powerful: Legacy of Nehru (c/f by everyone got weakened during Indira, MMS era) 10. Judiciary might be slow but still it is credible in the eyes of common man: Legacy of Nehru followed by everyone except Indira 11. Post of Prime Minister is still the most powerful and it is the last say: Legacy of Nehru (weakened by MMS ) Let's see the list of bad things which I can feel now: 1. Corruption is now a part of our life: Legacy of Indira, Rajeev, Rao and MMS 2. India is one of the dirtiest country of the world with people having no civic sense : All the Prime Minister after Indira are responsible starting from Rajeev 3. Inefficient Government servants: Legacy of Nehru 4. VIP culture: Legacy of Indira 5. Confusing relationship with neighbors: Legacy of Nehru everyone did bad except Vajpayee 6. Like most of the countries, Indians are not very proud of their history instead most are self haters: Legacy of Nehru 7. We are very still very poor country: All the PM responsible eventhough Rao and Vajpayee did something 8. We have jee hajoori and saheb culture everywhere:Legacy of Indira 9. People trust the goondas more than police: Legacy of Indira 10. Too much of goondaism in politics (politics is dirty word): Legacy of Indira If we go by the above list: Best: Nehru, Rao , Shastri Worst: Indira, MMS
Sachin=GOD Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Where do Deve Gowda,Chandrasekhar and IK Gujral fit in - all were less than 2 years I think but I see Charan Singh and LBS in discussion? Gujral screwed us by withdrawing all our RAW assets in Pakistan IIRC. They should also be there in the list. You don't need to be PM for a long time to have a big impact (LBS had a positive impact in less than 2 years while as you mentioned, Gujral screwed internal security badly by removing RAW assets in 11 months as PM).
Number Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Is there a decent book(in English) that deals with the politics around that time in north India? Mandal comm Ram Janma Bhoomi Rise of RJD SP etc Have you read Durbar by Tavleen Singh ? Not very enlightening about the topics you mentioned, as it mostly revolves around Delhi lutyens but it touches upon all these things. Thing about it is that its a very interesting book. At times Tavleen Singh sounds bitter of Sonia and Rajiv but her reasons seem well justified.
Raghav_12 Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Nehru and Vajpayee would be among the best. Indira is worst. I heard only good things about Shastri but what exactly he did other than setting very high standards of political conduct by Prime Ministers, I am not aware. Don't think one can be rated top prime minister of all time just for that. VP singh as worst prime minister is one where OP has got it wrong completely. I don't agree with whatever casteism he brought in politics but I think he genuinely believed in bringing social change and continued with his ways till very last of his life. He had put up one of the best council of ministers. If somebody has to be blamed for bringing caste in politics by reserveations, then blame the team that prepared constitution who introduced the idea of reservation.
mishra Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Nehuru had support of nation builders. Allthough despite all that he messed up on quite a few issues Kashmir,partition,Netaji,Indo china war, tibet and so on but Biggest mess was supporting Chinas UNSC permanent status. We see the impact of it 7 decades later. So not counting him Best PMs we had 1. Indira. Neutralized any Paki threat for good. Was a real speaker and for once we had a voice on global stage 2. Atalji: Nothing special but experience. Messed up with Pakistan, but his vision work on infrstructure development in India i.e of connecting every village with Roads, Connecting rivers and golden quadrilateral. 3. Narsimha Rao: Changed the course of India. Realigned India with west. Incompetent list is long. Devegowda,Chandrashekar, Charan Singh, Morarji, Gujral. Luckily, we had only one incompetent as well as Evil PM. That is Mr VP Singh. A cancer to Indian society died of cancer.
mishra Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 #1 VP Singh - What is worse than a corrupt PM? A PM who masquerades as an anti-corruption crusader only to fulfill one's own political ambitions. This prior incarnation of Arvind Kejriwal was in my opinion the worst PM ever despite his brief tenure because he single handedly brought caste-based politics back to the forefront of Indian politics, just to counter the rapidly rising BJP. For the fact that he tried to divide India on caste lines, he deserves to be called the worst Prime Minister India ever had. When he assumed office, He knew that by next election educated and so called upper castes are traditional Congress supporters will either vote Congress or may support BJP. Being from UP, He was very well aware of the caste demogrphy of 3 states (UP,MP,Bihar). SC ST reservation was allready there. Mandal Commission can be considered right as few castes were definitely downtrodden and needed help. But giving 27% reservation was pure politics. Including certain castes like "Yadavs" into that 27% was politics (it defeated sole purpose of the commission). Beating and Killing school kids who were on protests was pure evil.
zen Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 The whole Tashkent Agreement is shrouded in mystery. India should have renegotiated terms citing mysterious circumstances. But LBS allah ko pyare ho gaye sigh karne ke baad
Sachin=GOD Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Have you read Durbar by Tavleen Singh ? Not very enlightening about the topics you mentioned' date=' as it mostly revolves around Delhi lutyens but it touches upon all these things. Thing about it is that its a very interesting book. At times Tavleen Singh sounds bitter of Sonia and Rajiv but her reasons seem well justified.[/quote'] Yes. Very interesting book.
Texan Posted July 6, 2015 Author Posted July 6, 2015 Nehru and Vajpayee would be among the best. Indira is worst. I heard only good things about Shastri but what exactly he did other than setting very high standards of political conduct by Prime Ministers, I am not aware. Don't think one can be rated top prime minister of all time just for that. VP singh as worst prime minister is one where OP has got it wrong completely. I don't agree with whatever casteism he brought in politics but I think he genuinely believed in bringing social change and continued with his ways till very last of his life. He had put up one of the best council of ministers. If somebody has to be blamed for bringing caste in politics by reserveations, then blame the team that prepared constitution who introduced the idea of reservation. The framers of the constitution and the primary lobbyist for reservations, Dr Ambedkar only wanted reservations to last 10 years. But, instead of curtailing reservations, we have extended them to every possible sphere. Not just that, we have also increased the quota for reservations. Even if you agree with the philosophy of reservations and feel that they are needed, why isn't the reservation system implemented based on economic backwardness instead of caste based criteria? What you now have is the creamy layer within the lower castes blatantly abusing the system to get education and jobs that they are now worthy of. Take the case of the Khobragades for example.
zen Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Why are people mentioning MMS?When was he PM? :haha: .... may be we should just say "10 Janpath" was the PM during that period
The Outsider Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Is there a decent book(in English) that deals with the politics around that time in north India? Mandal comm Ram Janma Bhoomi Rise of RJD SP etc The only book I've read which contains a significant material from the time is 'The Lonely Prophet'. It's pretty ordinary. Somehow, having lived those days have never felt the inclination to read a book on it, perhaps I should.
The Outsider Posted July 6, 2015 Posted July 6, 2015 Interestingly your point #1 completely contradicts your point #2. Strategic seat sharing alone does not get you from 2 to 85. Pretty lame statement to make. BJP as a political force was on the upswing and VP Singh wanted to check its rise. I am aware of the chronology of events. Point 1 doesn't contradict point 2. The '89 election was fought solely on corruption and Bofors. BJP managed 80 seats with a 10% vote share solely due to an electoral alliance with VP Singh. For context, in '84 BJP got 2 seats with 8% vote share.
Texan Posted July 6, 2015 Author Posted July 6, 2015 Point 1 doesn't contradict point 2. The '89 election was fought solely on corruption and Bofors. BJP managed 80 seats with a 10% vote share solely due to an electoral alliance with VP Singh. For context' date=' in '84 BJP got 2 seats with 8% vote share.[/quote'] BJP did not have any alliance with VP Singh. They only supported the National Front govt from outside. Besides, you don't just go from 2 seats to 85 seats with just strategic seat sharing.
BeautifulGame Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Have you read Durbar by Tavleen Singh ? Not very enlightening about the topics you mentioned' date=' as it mostly revolves around Delhi lutyens but it touches upon all these things. Thing about it is that its a very interesting book. At times Tavleen Singh sounds bitter of Sonia and Rajiv but her reasons seem well justified.[/quote'] Thanks.Havent read it yet
Raghav_12 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 BJP did not have any alliance with VP Singh. They only supported the National Front govt from outside. Besides' date=' you don't just go from 2 seats to 85 seats with just strategic seat sharing.[/quote'] They fought election as an alliance. Though there were lot of rebel candidate because of inherently different background of parties. Some of the places where alliance was in full force was - Rajasthan where out of 25, they won 12 and 13 seats each with Congress drawing a flak. Similarly in Gujrat, they fought together and wiped out Congress.
Tiger80 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Nehuru had support of nation builders. Allthough despite all that he messed up on quite a few issues Kashmir,partition,Netaji,Indo china war, tibet and so on but Biggest mess was supporting Chinas UNSC permanent status. We see the impact of it 7 decades later. So not counting him Best PMs we had 1. Indira. Neutralized any Paki threat for good. Was a real speaker and for once we had a voice on global stage 2. Atalji: Nothing special but experience. Messed up with Pakistan, but his vision work on infrstructure development in India i.e of connecting every village with Roads, Connecting rivers and golden quadrilateral. 3. Narsimha Rao: Changed the course of India. Realigned India with west. Incompetent list is long. Devegowda,Chandrashekar, Charan Singh, Morarji, Gujral. Luckily, we had only one incompetent as well as Evil PM. That is Mr VP Singh. A cancer to Indian society died of cancer. We now have nuclear Paki threat. . Even in so much commanding position with 93000 POWs all she managed was simla agreement , not even forced Pakistan to give up Kashmir claim
diga Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 ^In hindsight, everyone is right.. but the decisions Indira took at that time was probably par for the course. Could have done more as she had the courage to take those decisions, but was she guided by the right set of advisers on Kashmir & pak?
mishra Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 We now have nuclear Paki threat. . Even in so much commanding position with 93000 POWs all she managed was simla agreement ' date=' not even forced Pakistan to give up Kashmir claim[/quote'] Actually American warships, which were on its way to help Pakis would have reached bay of Bengal, if the war of Bangla independence lasted more than a week. She had very little time to create a new state and broker a peace deal. A nuclear Pakistan is down to Nehurus policy with China. He has messed up big time.
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