Bigg Brother Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 To illustrate how differently India and Pakistan carve and peddle their narratives, former ambassador to the United Nations, Munir Akram recently quoted an excerpt from a review by Pankaj Mishra, a noted Indian author and writer of literary and political essays. “An unblinkered vision of South Asia would feature a country whose fanatically ideological government in 1998 conducted nuclear tests, threatened its neighbour with all-out war and, four years later, presided over the massacre of 2,000 members of a religious minority. Long embattled against secessionist insurgencies… the ‘flailing’ state… now struggles to contain a militant movement in its heartland. It is also where thousands of women are killed every year for failing to bring sufficient dowry and nearly 200,000 farmers have committed suicide in the past decade.” Mishra added: “This country is not Pakistan; it is India.” The review noted that India has revamped its image in the West through a most successful rebranding effort and one of “the cleverest PR campaigns”. On the other hand, Pakistan seems to have “lost the narrative”, argued Akram. He suggests that Pakistanis in general and officials in particular are often defensive and non-assertive even when they are on the right side of the argument. Pakistan, indeed, suffers from poor branding and its own people have failed in carving a narrative built on the positives. Ironically, this article reminded me of a few conversations with foreigners who have been to both India and Pakistan. At the cost of being taken on by nationalist Indians, I am reproducing some of the comments here which were made in the context of the brinkmanship and arrogance that has accompanied Narendara Modi’s government. After taking a study tour to Pakistan, Sri Lanka and India, members of an international officers’ delegation made some poignant observations about their stint in the three countries. Some of these observations may be cursory but still reflect certain realities of some South Asian cities. Arriving in and moving through New Delhi was a shocking experience, recalled a German official. According to him, the life outside the grand airport was in sharp contrast to what he had read about the new, shining India. Unlike the image of a clean and vibrant New Delhi reflecting the oft-trumpeted ‘ shining India’, he encountered congested roads, vehicular mayhem, and filth and trash all over. The delegation visited the Taj Mahal too; the Taj itself is grand but the road up to and from Agra as well as its vicinities often make you nauseous as you see countless people openly squatting along the roads, recalled an official from England. How else would you feel when you came across these images in a country that boasts a nuclear arsenal and is investing billions in nuclear submarines and the latest combat aircraft? Unfathomable that such a country is host to about 400 million people living on less than two dollars a day and a huge number of them don’t have toilets in this day and age. Big advertising billboards, recalled a British officer, display a yearning for a Western lifestyle, with light-skinned models . Discussions are very much centred on a nationalistic ethos and self- confidence, he said. It is good to be nationalistic and self-confident, but misplaced over-emphasis is not, he remarked. This over-emphasis reflects a disconnect between the marketing gimmickry of the corporate sector and the discourse on ground. An official from Ukraine was disappointed with his experience in Bangalore and Chennai; these are rightly touted as IT cities, but the life on the roads doesn’t reflect the order and prosperity that comes with the IT-related development. Poverty and disorder is omnipresent, he recalled. Officials from Belgium, France and Spain found Colombo and Islamabad to be much more organised, cleaner and quite orderly. A Japanese delegate complained of “very few women at work” at the Islamabad airport. They also wondered as to who is really running the government. But most officers, who had visited places such as Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia, did appreciate what they described as the “ resilience of Pakistani society”, despite nearly 14 years of unrest. One of the top executives of a multinational communications company complained bitterly about the unpredictability of doing business in India. At the same time, however, he felt that the Indian market is too big to ignore so his company is still sticking its necks out because of the potential the market offers. http://tribune.com.pk/story/932221/the-myth-of-shining-india/
div Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Smelly welcome: Toilets at Islamabad airport take fun out of travel http://tribune.com.pk/story/660545/smelly-welcome-toilets-at-islamabad-airport-take-fun-out-of-travel/ Islamabad replaces Manila at top of list of world’s worst airports Manila lost its first-place ranking to Islamabad’s Benazir Bhutto international airport, described as a “central prison” where aggressive security checks and uncleanliness reign. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/17/islamabad-manila-worst-airports-list
Raghav_12 Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 India may not be good but worse than Pakistan !! Writer must be smoking some really cool stuff. Some clear indicators of situations on ground. 1. Growth of International flights to India and Decline in number of international flights to Pakistan. 2. No other country find it safe enough even to travel Pakistan for sporting events. 3. Presence of pockets of areas in Pakistan where govt has absolutely no control. I am not opposed to India being criticized but bringing Pakistan in equation would be counterproductive argument only.
Pakistan Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 http://tribune.com.pk/story/660545/smelly-welcome-toilets-at-islamabad-airport-take-fun-out-of-travel/ http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/17/islamabad-manila-worst-airports-list Why are you guys so defensive? Accept the problems, try to fix them and this goes for all South Asian countries.
randomGuy Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Karachi’s Orangi beats Slumdog Millionaire’s Dharavi in Mumbai as Asia’s largest slum - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/6153500/Karachis-Orangi-beats-Slumdog-Millionaires-Dharavi-in-Mumbai-as-Asias-largest-slum.html (2009)
Raghav_12 Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Why are you guys so defensive? Accept the problems, try to fix them and this goes for all South Asian countries. We are ready to accept the problems but by bringing Pakistan in equation they start looking like luxuries. That's why I am opposing this article. I want them to remain problems so that we can work on them.
div Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 We are ready to accept the problems but by bringing Pakistan in equation they start looking like luxuries. That's why I am opposing this article. I want them to remain problems so that we can work on them. :agree:
Precambrian Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I stopped at the name "Pankaj Mishra" :hysterical:
ravishingravi Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I ll be the first to trample of this shining India BS. But, I can safely say India trumps borderline fail state that is Pakistan.
Clarke Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 If the Indian Army had decided to have its own city to govern the country, New Delhi would have been in the league developed nation capitals, not Islamabad :winky:
Gollum Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Shining India... BS But Pakistan isn't a yardstick, they too are a 3rd world country with gazillion problems.
Anitha Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Why are you guys so defensive? Accept the problems, try to fix them and this goes for all South Asian countries. The thing is, when you start comparing to Pakistan, our problems start looking as first world problems. To accept them as problems we need to compare with some better country
seedhi Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 Pankaj Mishra is Arundhati Roy with a longer beard ..
Kalia_Test Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 The problem is not Pankaj Mishra - in a large country like India, someone or other will have their views and Indian Constitution allows it. The article is from a Paki Imtiaz Gul - "The writer heads the independent Centre for Research and Security Studies, Islamabad" who seems to scout for negative news about India and passes it on as 'article'. So much for independent Research when all he does is quote others that are inline with his already held views. I remember watching a video of a Pak "News" program where the anchor openly says " main internet pe research kar raha tha aur mainen yeh tweets padi" and then goes on to show printout of tweets from nobodies :hysterical: Does anyone know if any English News Channels exist in Pakistan? Or have the terrorists Nawaz Sharif/Raheel Sharif banned English Channels ? P.s the below was the anchor I was referring to ( not the tweets video but same anchor ) 0wS8D001PnI&spfreload=10 This is what is fed to Pak population on an hourly basis. No wonder the Pak posters here are so brain-washed.
zen Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 I ll not comment on the dumb Pakistani spin on this but the article has elements of truth in it. Ind growth rate is relatively high but that is also because it has yet to develop .... However, there are other countries that need to develop too but have poor growth rates or growth rates equivalent to developed countries .... Ideally, a developing country's growth rate should be greater than a developed (matured) country's so in this respect Ind is shining (if a country is mostly developed and still has a high growth rate, it is incredible) Now when it comes to other aspects such as quality of life, pollution, overpopulation, education, equality issues, environment, cleanliness, proper waste management, water/air quality, open gutters issues, dry water sources/rivers, etc. Ind is still backwards .... In fact, the whole subcontinent is like a garbage bin and substantial efforts are needed to improve on this front How poor or rich you are is relative. So I hope that Ind does not sacrifice the quality of life and environmental aspects to just blindly drive its economic prosperity beetle 1
randomGuy Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Pankaj Mishra is Arundhati Roy with a longer beard .. You sure you haven't mistaken yourself looking into a mirror, for Roy because she doesn't seem to have a beard.
the don Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 India , pakistan flame wars aside , anyone who has been to both the countries will be actually very surprised , having been to both pakistan and India , i can safely say that Pakistan's major cities are visibly planned a whole lot better with seemingly better standards of living and much cleaner, of course it's just an observation but places like lahore , karachi and islamabad are comparable to world cities in a lot of ways from a quick glance , whereas when you are in India the reality that this is a third world country hits you in the face instantly . its something most people notice .
Book_Worm Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 India ' date=' pakistan flame wars aside , anyone who has been to both the countries will be actually very surprised , having been to both pakistan and India , i can safely say that Pakistan's major cities are visibly planned a whole lot better with seemingly better standards of living and much cleaner, of course it's just an observation but places like lahore , karachi and islamabad are comparable to world cities in a lot of ways from a quick glance , whereas when you are in India the reality that this is a third world country hits you in the face instantly . its something most people notice .[/quote'] Agreed. But i think the major reason is the massive massive population of india. something that most people including this author does not take into account. Places like bangalore, mumbai etc have to take in the influx of immigrants from all over india. I live in Hyderabad, after coming out of the airport u don't get to see beggars or even feel that it is a third world country, hitech city area, jubilee hills banjara etc are top notch places and many times remind me of dubai. It is very clean city too and i have to this day never seen anyone defeacting on roads or in open and these people don't even have the culture of paan eating and spitting on road. and i always think how long will this last as in the last few years i have seen lot immigration from other parts of india. It may go down the way of other indian cities. Pak+Bangla+Afghanistan together can be comparable to india in size and population and then it would be valid comparision. Just pakistan alone with india is an unfair comparison. Quick glances are not the way to make opinions or write articles u have to live there and be aware of the ground realities. India has developed tremendously and middle class live on par with the rest of the world. There is nothing that u cannot get in india these days. India may not have the surface shine and gloss of pakistan but u get past all that quality of life is very good. Problem is foreigners come with great expections to india and least expectations to pakistan. Pakistan is not better in anynway but it is better than what they expect and india falls short that is the problem.
randomGuy Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 India ' date=' pakistan flame wars aside , anyone who has been to both the countries will be actually very surprised , having been to both pakistan and India , i can safely say that Pakistan's major cities are visibly planned a whole lot better with seemingly better standards of living and much cleaner, of course it's just an observation but places like lahore , karachi and islamabad are comparable to world cities in a lot of ways from a quick glance , whereas when you are in India the reality that this is a third world country hits you in the face instantly . its something most people notice .[/quote'] But why should one believe account of an unknown Pakistani on Internet and not go by news reports, or by globally accepted parameters like HDI, global hunger index , GDP(PPP) per capita where pak lags India on every parameter? Plus the fact that pak is known for self-bigging and lying.
Kalia_Test Posted August 10, 2015 Posted August 10, 2015 One pertinent point to note. Most of Pak visitors to Indian cities visit only the ghettos of old Delhi, Hyderabad, Lucknow, etc as they are muslim dominated. This is true of >95% articles of Pakistan visitors to India. What do you expect in ghettos? They never visit the developed areas and even if they do, they will pretend as if they did not as it won't be inline with their agenda.
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