SANJAY MANJREKAR-Whatever happened to Indian batsmen's ability against spin?

[maniac]

I think batsmen around the world are not playing spin too well these days. We have seen it in the Ashes, seen Sri Lankan batsmen struggle against the legspin of Yasir Shah, and now India disintegrate against Rangana Herath to lose a Test match that was firmly in their grasp. All this is suggestive of the fact that international batsmen are not playing spin too well at the moment. The focus is so much on playing pace and seam well that it seems there is no headspace left for them to try to be adept at spin too. Before India went to England last summer, how many of their batsmen tried to hone their skills against offspin? I am sure James Anderson and Stuart Broad would have been on their minds, not Moeen Ali. No wonder Moeen ended up getting 19 wickets in that series. Historically, Indian batsmen have tended to take spin lightly. You just have to watch them bat in the nets - they bat with caution and respect against fast bowlers, but when they see a spinner come in to bowl they dance down the pitch to hit the ball for a six. They are not fussed if they miss a few; they basically look to have fun against the spinners before they put their heads down and get serious against the fast bowlers. Then, in a tense match situation, when the ball is turning square and the batsman sees four fielders around the bat, dancing down the pitch and hitting the ball into the stands is not an option any more, but they do not know what to do instead. Now the batsman has to do something he has never done before: try and defend the spinner from the crease and make sure the ball rolls safely along the ground off the defensive bat, away from the close-in catchers. This is a highly specialised skill, to defend confidently against the spinning ball, using only the bat, with catchers hovering four feet away. (With the DRS and umpires willing to give batsmen out lbw on the front foot, thrusting the pad at the ball is not an option any more, as it used to be in my time.) Every time an Indian batsman decides to get on to the front foot to defend against spin, I cringe. They leave far too much distance between the bat and the spot where the ball has pitched

Posting only half article as per site rules-Some valid points from our very own negative Nancy Manju For full article http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/910327.html

[Pagalpanti]

Maybe the pitches in domestic cricket have to do something with it? So much hullaballoo over no grass on Indian wickets which made us poor away. Now all we see are green pitches. Spin cupboard is bare and batsman are getting worse at playing spin.

[kosingh]

Maybe the pitches in domestic cricket have to do something with it? So much hullaballoo over no grass on Indian wickets which made us poor away. Now all we see are green pitches. Spin cupboard is bare and batsman are getting worse at playing spin.

Even if we prepared spin conducive wickets in domestic cricket, I can't count that many spinners in India who would be good enough to use those wickets to their advantage.

[Iconoclast]

Next three years of Indian test cricket to be played in spinning conditions :nervous:

[Marut]

Playing spin on a dust bowl is probably harder than playing swing on a greentop. Because of the presence of close catching positions employed on such tracks - the margin for error is extremely low. Fortunately, many former Indian batsmen had enough experience tackling high quality spin during their formative years and they took to spin like fish to water at the international level. Even Shane Warne was made to look like a zombie when he landed in India. Not by our national team batsmen, but by Ranji players like Amit Pagnis. Warne never recovered from that psychological blow and never performed well in India. The quality of spin bowling used to be quite high in the domestic circles two decades ago - many state sides then had spinners who could make it to the national side in 2015. Ashwin is in a different league, and apart from Ashwin most state sides of the 80s and 90s had spinners who can make the current national team.

[Clarke]

I'd be inclined to point at the work ethic of our superstars. Tendulkar was a genius, Sehwag a maverick but players like Dravid, Ganguly & Laxman covered spin well even when out of form and they actually faced Warne & Murali for so long. The current lot shits their pants while facing Moeen & Lyon, fecking disgrace :wall: Its not like they're real good on green tops for the record, only Vijay & Rahane have inspired some confidence over there.

[MechEng]

This is what happens when you bow down to phirangisss. Overseas teams kept complaining that India does not produce 'sporting' wickets and if they lose a test match in India, the blame would go to 'doctored pitches' instead of their inability to play turn. And our curators out of pressure ended up producing greentops which are not traditional to Indian style cricket. Indian bowlers are not blessed with the genes to bowl quick and accurate consistently, it is not that Indian bowlers don't work hard, they work very hard but they cannot transform into someone like Allan Donald who has been gifted the perfect physique for fast bowling. We should have persisted with our strengths and continued making turning pitches. Spin bowling has always been our major strength and the overseas teams always used to fear this.

[SaintEschaton]

The current crop of batsmen are decent handling pace but clueless against spin because it has been systematically de-emphasized as evidenced . Up and comers in the domestic circuit have almost solely been playing on seam friendly green tops to encourage the development of phaast bowlers

[Marut]

This is what happens when you bow down to phirangisss. Overseas teams kept complaining that India does not produce 'sporting' wickets and if they lose a test match in India, the blame would go to 'doctored pitches' instead of their inability to play turn. And our curators out of pressure ended up producing greentops which are not traditional to Indian style cricket. Indian bowlers are not blessed with the genes to bowl quick and accurate consistently, it is not that Indian bowlers don't work hard, they work very hard but they cannot transform into someone like Allan Donald who has been gifted the perfect physique for fast bowling. We should have persisted with our strengths and continued making turning pitches. Spin bowling has always been our major strength and the overseas teams always used to fear this.

Pakistanis aren't very different from Indians. If they can produce fast bowlers so can we. We just don't have that culture yet. Most Indians want to emulate the Sachins and Dhonis and not the Kapils and Srinaths. When bowling becomes a passion for Indians, then we will get a steady stream of fast bowlers.

[maniac]

I think the overconfidence that Indians can cash in against spinners especially the ordinary ones has been transferred over from generation to generation but unfortunately not the technique. I believe the same with ability against swing....likes of Gavaskar,Vengsarker,Azharuddin,Sachin,Ganguly,Dravid all were fantastic in England....hell likes of Agarkar,Kumble,Bangar did well there with the bat but now despite of training on greentops the current generation has awful technique against the swinging ball. Pace and Bounce was always an issue for us and still is to some players like Raina etc but to add to it now we are awful against swing and spin

[Marut]

I think the overconfidence that Indians can cash in against spinners especially the ordinary ones has been transferred over from generation to generation but unfortunately not the technique. I believe the same with ability against swing....likes of Gavaskar,Vengsarker,Azharuddin,Sachin,Ganguly,Dravid all were fantastic in England....hell likes of Agarkar,Kumble,Bangar did well there with the bat but now despite of training on greentops the current generation has awful technique against the swinging ball. Pace and Bounce was always an issue for us and still is to some players like Raina etc but to add to it now we are awful against swing and spin

It is not enough to play on greentops. They have to play against world class bowlers in the nets. In the past, Indian batsmen got part of their swing playing skills by playing county cricket, where they came face to face with world class bowlers. If India is to become good at playing swing/seam, they need to play a lot of overseas A tours. Playing trundlers on greentops is not enough.

[sensible-indian]

Actually the shift from spin tracks to green tops SHOWS WE GIVE A DAMN AND WE WANT TO CHANGE AND BECOME GOOD EVERYWHERE. That's a great attitude. Sure we got the formula wrong but we will soon zone in the right combo of pitches. Right now BCCI is looking at preparing bouncy tracks and not green ones. Take a 25 year sample set and you will see the efforts we are putting now will reap results. But test cricket may or may not be there at that time. As of now, we are garbage against quality spin and just have to hope to get by using individual performances.

[maniac]

Actually the shift from spin tracks to green tops SHOWS WE GIVE A DAMN AND WE WANT TO CHANGE. That's a great attitude. Sure we got the formula wrong but we will soon zone in the right combo of pitches. Right now BCCI is looking at preparing bouncy tracks and not green ones. Take a 25 year sample set and you will see the efforts we are putting now will reap results. But test cricket may or may not be there at that time. As of now, we are garbage against quality spin and just have to hope to get by using good individual performances.

We don't need Greentops-period Infact the pitches as they were in the past were good enough because in most Indian conditions especially in the North and Tropical climates...new ball will swing regardless. SO helps both the batsman and bowlers. SPinning and dry tracks,the way they were-Self explanatory. SO now coming back to pace and bounce which always has been an achillies heel till maybe recently when a few players are pretty good and handling it....a genuine pace bowler on a quick and bouncy pitch will get you regardless. So yeah it makes sense to go back to where we started

[Clarke]

Why can't we have all kinds of tracks, or for that matter sporting tracks that favor good batsmen/quicks/spinners ? Eden Gardens was that type more than a decade back. BTW Aus always had a spin friendly Sydney as opposed to the super quick Perth earlier, these days its just drop in revenue generators.

[Ramzz]

Hmm...need I remind everyone that we had prepared spinning tracks in 2012 when England were touring. Let's just say we got spanked hard by Monty and Swann. The issue is not the tracks, it is the attitude towards playing spin, the technique. Laxman could get on the front foot or back foot to play the same ball...his footwork was quick. The mindset was positive. Get to the pitch of the ball and smother it.

[vayuu1]

Actually, instead of green tops or rank turners, we need is a sporting tracks with good bounce, which assists seamers for day and half, where if u r patient enough you can survive, also u can score if u r skillful enough, next day and half good for batting, and last two days assisting spinners, are ready to put revs and put their body behind.

[Anitha]

We were sh!t against spin in the last innings since ages. From Chennai where we collapse when Sachin got out to Clarke's 6-fer. We have always lost matches in 4th innings to spin. Why do you think it's something new?

[Vijy]

We were sh!t against spin in the last innings since ages. From Chennai where we collapse when Sachin got out to Clarke's 6-fer. We have always lost matches in 4th innings to spin. Why do you think it's something new?

It's because those players collapsed owing to mental timidity. In this current bunch, most don't have the technique, and possibly not the temperament as well. Likes of Sidhu, Sehwag, SRT, Laxman, etc were certainly more solid against spin.

[Gollum]

It's because those players collapsed owing to mental timidity. In this current bunch' date=' most don't have the technique, and possibly not the temperament as well. Likes of Sidhu, Sehwag, SRT, Laxman, etc were certainly more solid against spin.[/quote'] Yup, we had the skill set against spin back then but didn't have the mental fortitude. Bangalore 2005 against Afridi/Kaneria, Mumbai 2006 against Udal :facepalm:being prime examples. Present rockstars don't have a clue as to how to play spin bowling. Poor footwork, lack of decisiveness, confused state of mind, hard hands,inability to read from the bowler's hands, inability to get in line..... and the list goes on and on. :((

[Vijy]

Yup' date=' we had the skill set against spin back then but didn't have the mental fortitude. Bangalore 2005 against Afridi/Kaneria, Mumbai 2006 against [b']Udal :facepalm:being prime examples. Present rockstars don't have a clue as to how to play spin bowling. Poor footwork, lack of decisiveness, confused state of mind, hard hands,inability to read from the bowler's hands, inability to get in line..... and the list goes on and on. :((

Shaun "Warne" Udal - now, I'm definitely going to have nightmares today