This Ishant hate needs to stop

[Marut]

Even Ishant has run through top sides and he plays on the same pitches.

Ishant does it once an year. Kapil did it much more frequently. Ishant has 6 five wicket hauls in 64 tests = one five wicket haul/10.67 tests. Kapil had 23 in 131 test = one five wicket haul/5.69 matches. In overseas conditions, Ishant averages nearly 40, averaging close to 50 or above in three countries. In contrast, Kapil averaged sub 25 in places like WI and Aus. Ishant is a joke of a bowler.

[Vijy]

Ishant does it once an year. Kapil did it much more frequently. Ishant has 6 five wicket hauls in 64 tests = one five wicket haul/10.67 tests. Kapil had 23 in 131 test = one five wicket haul/5.69 matches. In overseas conditions' date=' Ishant averages nearly 40, averaging close to 50 or above in three countries. In contrast, Kapil averaged sub 25 in places like WI and Aus. Ishant is a joke of a bowler.[/quote'] It's not appropriate to look at Kapil's entire career since he went into a very long decline towards the end when he was old. During his peak, he took around 240 wkts in 55 Tests... a feat that Pisshy won't ever match. In fact, let alone Srinath, Kapil and Zak, he's not really the equal of even the likes of Pathan, Ghavri, etc.

[Marut]

It's not appropriate to look at Kapil's entire career since he went into a very long decline towards the end when he was old. During his peak' date=' he took around 240 wkts in 55 Tests... a feat that Pisshy won't ever match. In fact, let alone Srinath, Kapil and Zak, he's not really the equal of even the likes of Pathan, Ghavri, etc.[/quote'] Exactly. Ishant's peak resembles Kapil's terminal decline.

[Vijy]

Exactly. Ishant's peak resembles Kapil's terminal decline.

I look forward to Ishant's decline... :hysterical::hysterical:

[rkt.india]

It's not appropriate to look at Kapil's entire career since he went into a very long decline towards the end when he was old. During his peak' date=' he took around 240 wkts in 55 Tests... a feat that Pisshy won't ever match. In fact, let alone Srinath, Kapil and Zak, he's not really the equal of even the likes of Pathan, Ghavri, etc.[/quote'] I didnt say he is as good as Kapil Dev. Even Zak has just 11 5-fers in 92 test and he is one of our top 3 fast bowlers ever. It is just a comparison of averages of both bowlers to their contemporaries. Even Ishant had average of 31 before 2011 England tour. Since that tour, he struggled every where England, Australia, and India. These tours were just disastrous. Problem with him is, he just does not have that wicket taking ability to be a strike bowler. He can bowl economically at times that's it but cannot sustain it for long and still he is our best fast bowler at this point which tells you about the quality of our fast bowlers.

[Vijy]

I didnt say he is as good as Kapil Dev. Even Zak has just 11 5-fers in 92 test and he is one of our top 3 fast bowlers ever. It is just a comparison of averages of both bowlers to their contemporaries. Even Ishant had average of 31 before 2011 England tour. Since that tour' date=' he struggled every where England, Australia, and India. These tours were just disastrous. Problem with him is, he just does not have that wicket taking ability to be a strike bowler. He can bowl economically at times that's it but cannot sustain it for long and still he is our best fast bowler at this point which tells you about the quality of our fast bowlers.[/quote'] Zak has better bowling avg, and yes, he was pretty ordinary in the earlier parts of his career too, but not over 60+ Tests. Either Ishant is a super-slow learner or he simply lacks match-winning ability; I believe it's the latter.

[rkt.india]

I look forward to Ishant's decline... :hysterical::hysterical:

Ishant declined big time since 2011 England tour. He was averaging 31 before that which wasnt bad considering his age of 22 but those tours of England and Aus proved disastrous. We had lots of hopes from especially after such a great WI tour, he did start decently at Lords but once Zak was out of the series, he regressed too. Australia tour was even worse later that year was even worse. Before that year his average in India was 28 but he started struggling in India too and had a very bad series number wise against WI before Aus tour. His pace was up but was not able to get wickets.

[rkt.india]

Zak has better bowling avg' date=' and yes, he was pretty ordinary in the earlier parts of his career too, but not over 60+ Tests. Either Ishant is a super-slow learner or he simply lacks match-winning ability; I believe it's the latter.[/quote'] No, Ishant's average declined after 2011 England tour. He too was averaging 31 before that and his average in India was around 27-28. Most of us at that time thought he could get his average below 30 and he was only 22, but rather than getting better, he declined.

[Vijy]

No' date=' Ishant's average declined after 2011 England tour. He too was averaging 31 before that and his average in India was around 27-28.[/quote'] I wonder how much more it will decline... to 40?

[rkt.india]

I wonder how much more it will decline... to 40?

No idea, but most of us at that time had thought he could get his average below 30 and he was only 22, but rather than getting better, he declined.

[rkt.india]

Until he starts taking more wickets in Aus, SA, England supposedly bowling friendly conditions, he is not going get his average down. He has very high averages in 3 countries.

[Marut]

No' date=' Ishant's average declined after 2011 England tour. He too was averaging 31 before that and his average in India was around 27-28. Most of us at that time thought he could get his average below 30 and he was only 22, but rather than getting better, he declined.[/quote'] Typical of Indian bowlers. Kapil was the only marathon horse we ever had. He sustained his form for eleven years before declining towards the end. Zaheer had only three or four years of excellence. Srinath had three or four. Others lasted less than two years. At this rate Ishant will finish his career with the worst stats ever - 150 tests 400 wickets average 42 strike rate 80.

[Vijy]

Typical of Indian bowlers. Kapil was the only marathon horse we ever had. He sustained his form for eleven years before declining towards the end. Zaheer had only three or four years of excellence. Srinath had three or four. Others lasted less than two years. At this rate Ishant will finish his career with the worst stats ever - 150 tests 400 wickets average 42 strike rate 80.

In Srinath's case, I think it could have been more - prob 5 years; I rate him higher than Zaheer. As for Ishant's eventual career stats, they sound quite probable :hysterical:

[Gollum]

In Srinath's case, I think it could have been more - prob 5 years; I rate him higher than Zaheer. As for Ishant's eventual career stats, they sound quite probable :hysterical:

Correct I'd see even more than 5. Very under rated bowler, he is better than Zak in my opinion too.

[Marut]

Kapil Dev's best years - 1979,1980, 1981,1983,1985,1988,1989,1991 Srinath's best years - 1993,1995,1996,1998,1999,2000,2001 Zaheer's best years - 2002,2007,2010,2011

[putrevus]

The problem with Ishant Sharma, he does not have any stock delivery which can get people out on a consistent basis.He along with Aaron trying to bounce out Srilankan openers is testament to that fact. Any bowler unless he has a stock delivery which batsmen have to worry about constantly cannot become a great wicket takers.Variations come only after having at least one stock delivery. Zak had it but he never had stamina to last whole innings/match/series and also he bowled some rubbish in middle.With his talent Zak should have ended up with under 28 avg. Yadav should have become Indian version of Dale steyn, he has that natural outswinger which he can bowl at high speeds but his career has been totally derailed for various reasons. Aaron is again same he has no stock delivery.

[maniac]

The problem with Ishant Sharma, he does not have any stock delivery which can get people out on a consistent basis.He along with Aaron trying to bounce out Srilankan openers is testament to that fact. Any bowler unless he has a stock delivery which batsmen have to worry about constantly cannot become a great wicket takers.Variations come only after having at least one stock delivery. Zak had it but he never had stamina to last whole innings/match/series and also he bowled some rubbish in middle.With his talent Zak should have ended up with under 28 avg. Yadav should have become Indian version of Dale steyn, he has that natural outswinger which he can bowl at high speeds but his career has been totally derailed for various reasons. Aaron is again same he has no stock delivery.

Aaron reminds me a lot of Fidel Edwards...Killer short pitch ball......genuine pace but nothing apart from those.....but I think he is a good cog in a complete and nice attack but does not have the it factor to stand alone. As far as Ishant goes,You can't compare him with Aaron...Ishant ahs that extra bounce and a decent inswinger......skills wise he is way ahead of Aaaron. Yadav has the Pace and skills but too inconsistent,just when he was developing as you said,he had that career pause due to a lot of political and other external factros

[putrevus]

Aaron reminds me a lot of Fidel Edwards...Killer short pitch ball......genuine pace but nothing apart from those.....but I think he is a good cog in a complete and nice attack but does not have the it factor to stand alone. As far as Ishant goes,You can't compare him with Aaron...Ishant ahs that extra bounce and a decent inswinger......skills wise he is way ahead of Aaaron. Yadav has the Pace and skills but too inconsistent,just when he was developing as you said,he had that career pause due to a lot of political and other external factros

Aaron is not genuine pacer sorry, he is fast but he has no life threatening pace nor he has any command of line and length.His lack of command could be overlooked if he had any wicket taking ability. There is more to bowling than hurling the ball at decent pace, these guys for some reason are not developing any wicket taking delivery or in case of Ishant refining his stock delivery which was that inswinger. IMO all Ishant had to do was use the crease more and use it as his friend to create more angles. He would have been totally different bowler since he has ability to reverse swing. Using the crease as weapon takes lot of hard work as the final delivery strides have to be smooth and follow thru should be seamless so that they are not running on danger area.

[Vijy]

Aaron reminds me a lot of Fidel Edwards...Killer short pitch ball......genuine pace but nothing apart from those.....but I think he is a good cog in a complete and nice attack but does not have the it factor to stand alone. As far as Ishant goes,You can't compare him with Aaron...Ishant ahs that extra bounce and a decent inswinger......skills wise he is way ahead of Aaaron. Yadav has the Pace and skills but too inconsistent,just when he was developing as you said,he had that career pause due to a lot of political and other external factros

Edwards was better than Aaron... even when we look at their early stages of career.

[Laaloo]

Until he starts taking more wickets in Aus' date=' SA, England supposedly bowling friendly conditions, he is not going get his average down. He has very high averages in 3 countries.[/quote'] He'd be lucky to get his average less than 35