Security concerns force Akram, Akhtar, Dar to leave India early

[TalhaSyed]

Are you disappointed that Indian fans are condemning the methods of Shiv Sena, or are you disappointed that Indian fans don't believe any cricket should be played between India and Pakistan?

I'm disappointed by the whole state of affairs we find our selves.

I'm disappointed by the fact that a bunch of morons like Shiv Sena have such power and influence over Indian cricket that they can decide which meetings should take place, which venues should be, which officials and commentators should be used etc.

I'm disappointed that a significant proportion of Indians see Pakistan as a "terrorist state" and want no ties what so ever with the country. I was always under the impression that such hostilities between the two countries were present only at a political level and juvenile/immature level whilst the general public in both nations had no real ill feelings towards the other - looks like I may have been wrong about that.....or maybe not.

I'm disappointed that the once greatest rivalry in sports has fizzled out into nothing more than a laughing stock simply due to poor planning and a power struggle.

Most of all I'm disappointed by the number of fans I have come across on this forum and another who seem perfectly content with what's happened in the last few days and are still thumping their chest and boasting about the power BCCI hold in world cricket, rather than looking inwards and trying to fix some glaring issues and problems which seem to have surfaced.

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[sandeep]

 

I'm disappointed by the whole state of affairs we find our selves.

 

I'm disappointed by the fact that a bunch of morons like Shiv Sena have such power and influence over Indian cricket that they can decide which meetings should take place, which venues should be, which officials and commentators should be used etc.

 

I'm disappointed that a significant proportion of Indians see Pakistan as a "terrorist state" and want no ties what so ever with the country. I was always under the impression that such hostilities between the two countries were present only at a political level and juvenile/immature level whilst the general public in both nations had no real ill feelings towards the other - looks like I may have been wrong about that.....or maybe not.

 

I'm disappointed that the once greatest rivalry in sports has fizzled out into nothing more than a laughing stock simply due to poor planning and a power struggle.

 

Most of all I'm disappointed by the number of fans I have come across on this forum and another who seem perfectly content with what's happened in the last few days and are still thumping their chest and boasting about the power BCCI hold in world cricket, rather than looking inwards and trying to fix some glaring issues and problems which seem to have surfaced.

 

 

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I understand your disappointment.  But its a bit naive to expect Indian fans to want cricket with Pakistan as badly as Pakistanis do.  You are not alone in your naivete - this is a constant theme across many Pakistanis who somehow have a blind spot when it comes to the 25+ years of "non-state actors" inflicting murders inside India.  A lot of the indifference and goodwill has been burned up by that.  It will take years of peace for it to build up again.  You can't just say - "Hey, we are not doing it anymore and we are trying to fight terror in our own country, so all of that is history and should be forgotten".  It doesn't quite work that way.  Especially when those with blood of innocents on their hands are still walking around freely in your country.  

 

Having said that, Shiv Sena's antics are criminal and illegal - they deserve to be condemned and I really wish the government would come down harder on them - and a healthy majority of Indians feel the same way.  

 

 

 

[putrevus]

 

I'm disappointed by the whole state of affairs we find our selves.

 

I'm disappointed by the fact that a bunch of morons like Shiv Sena have such power and influence over Indian cricket that they can decide which meetings should take place, which venues should be, which officials and commentators should be used etc.

 

I'm disappointed that a significant proportion of Indians see Pakistan as a "terrorist state" and want no ties what so ever with the country. I was always under the impression that such hostilities between the two countries were present only at a political level and juvenile/immature level whilst the general public in both nations had no real ill feelings towards the other - looks like I may have been wrong about that.....or maybe not.

 

I'm disappointed that the once greatest rivalry in sports has fizzled out into nothing more than a laughing stock simply due to poor planning and a power struggle.

 

Most of all I'm disappointed by the number of fans I have come across on this forum and another who seem perfectly content with what's happened in the last few days and are still thumping their chest and boasting about the power BCCI hold in world cricket, rather than looking inwards and trying to fix some glaring issues and problems which seem to have surfaced.

 

 

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While some points of your are good, I don't agree with your thinking.Have Pakistan and their citizens ever done inward thinking which you are talking about since 1947.

Pakistanis in general ( I might be wrong but that is impression we Indians get) do not have problem with how their govt acts in all matters concerning India .Kashmir and Mumbai you can name any number of issues, most of them have this attitude what can India do.

They only have problem with India not playing Pakistan in cricket because that is hurting PCB financially.If it was just about getting more matches why is PCB not running after West Indies or Bangladesh to play series.

Pakistanis cannot come out now and say why is BCCI and India  bringing politics into cricket when they really don't care about India in general.

Sports and politics are intertwined unless there is peace between countries there is no point in playing a game when countless lives are being lost everyday at borders and other places  due to these problems.

I have problem with how Shiv sena has handled the issue coming across like thugs but like most Indians playing Pakistan is not that important.

Edited October 21, 2015 by putrevus

[TalhaSyed]

While some points of your are good, I don't agree with your thinking.Have Pakistan and their citizens ever done inward thinking which you are talking about since 1947.

Pakistanis in general ( I might be wrong but that is impression we Indians get) do not have problem with how their govt acts in all matters concerning India .Kashmir and Mumbai you can name any number of issues, most of them have this attitude what can India do.

They only have problem with India not playing Pakistan in cricket because that is hurting PCB financially.If it was just about getting more matches why is PCB not running after West Indies or Bangladesh to play series.

Pakistanis cannot come out now and say why is BCCI and India  bringing politics into cricket when they really don't care about India in general.

Sports and politics are intertwined unless there is peace between countries there is no point in playing a game when countless lives are being lost everyday at borders and other places  due to these problems.

I have problem with how Shiv sena has handled the issue coming across like thugs but like most Indians playing Pakistan is not that important.

 

I understand your disappointment.  But its a bit naive to expect Indian fans to want cricket with Pakistan as badly as Pakistanis do.  You are not alone in your naivete - this is a constant theme across many Pakistanis who somehow have a blind spot when it comes to the 25+ years of "non-state actors" inflicting murders inside India.  A lot of the indifference and goodwill has been burned up by that.  It will take years of peace for it to build up again.  You can't just say - "Hey, we are not doing it anymore and we are trying to fight terror in our own country, so all of that is history and should be forgotten".  It doesn't quite work that way.  Especially when those with blood of innocents on their hands are still walking around freely in your country.  

 

Having said that, Shiv Sena's antics are criminal and illegal - they deserve to be condemned and I really wish the government would come down harder on them - and a healthy majority of Indians feel the same way.  

I have not come across any general Pakistani citizen who does not condemn the terrorist attacks in Mumbai or any terrorist activity in India or Pakistan. Probably because the people who do support such activities are buried away in their caves somewhere. By enlarge Pakistani's have the same feelings towards the terrorist groups as the majorities of Indians do towards Shiv Sena - they are nuisance and an embarrassment to the country. 

The problems in both countries are the same - the countries are governed by a bunch of morons whilst extremist/fanatic groups run riots. Neither gov has done a good job at resolving issues like Kashmir and they are both corrupt to the core. There have been casualties on both side of the border - lets not kid ourselves - due to the incompetent gov's and surprisingly able extremist groups. Again - I believe this is the thought process of the majorities of Pakistanis I have spoken to.

As far as the financial aspect is concerned - I think a large number of Pakistani and Indian fans over estimate the financial impact an Indo-Pak series has. Sure - there is money to be made there - however, answer me this - how many times has Pakistan played India in the past decade? Hardly 2-3 series maybe? How much revenue do you think he PCB generated from these series's? And financially have you ever seen issues such as the PCB struggling to make ends meet or not paying the players like we have seen with some other cricket boards?

If anything - I think one of the reasons why some Pakistani fans don't wanna see an Indo-Pak series is this thought process that so many fans have that the only reason to play India is for money and they find that unnecessary. No doubt - BCCI is a very strong board and have a massive bank account. However, playing a series against them doesn't make anywhere near as much money as some internet fans seems to think and it's important to understand that.

And that brings me to my final point - the mixing of politics and cricket. Sure - I get what you mean that cricket can not be played between two countries if there is political unrest. However, it is not as if god for bid India and Pakistan are at war. There has always been a certain level of unrest between the two countries - however, for me this has always been at a higher level. In my opinion the common man/woman - in Pakistan at least - see things like cricket (sports in general), music, movies and arts as something which brings the two countries together and overcome these obstacles and borders put into place by the governing bodies. I thought this was also the case amongst the common man/woman in India but please do correct me if I am wrong.

Anyway - I've said my piece. I think the PCB has done everything they can do to resume cricketing ties with India, now the ball is firmly in the Indian court. I think the PCB should focus on progressing other tours and look forward to the upcoming domestic season and PSL. Meanwhile, if India wanna talk about possibly setting up a bilateral series then by all means the PCB should assist with that. Meanwhile if BCCI wants to sit on there throne refusing to have any ties with 'the terrorist state of Pakistan' who are 'only interested in the BCCI's pay check'....well.....have fun with that :)

 

[sandeep]

The problems in both countries are the same - the countries are governed by a bunch of morons whilst extremist/fanatic groups run riots.

 

Sorry, but this false equivalence does not exist, as much as Pakistanis would like to believe.  There are material differences between the the 2 countries government and populace, the details of which we don't need to drill down into.  And as an Indian, I thank God - Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, Buddha - all of them, for those differences.  

 

And condemning terror attacks is nice, but until state support is demonstrably unwound for the criminals and organizations that commit these crimes, it is unlikely that the Indian public or their government will extend their faith or goodwill.  As I said before, it will take actions and time for that goodwill to be re-built.  

 

[sandeep]

However, it is not as if god for bid India and Pakistan are at war. There has always been a certain level of unrest between the two countries - however, for me this has always been at a higher level. In my opinion the common man/woman - in Pakistan at least - see things like cricket (sports in general), music, movies and arts as something which brings the two countries together and overcome these obstacles and borders put into place by the governing bodies. I thought this was also the case amongst the common man/woman in India but please do correct me if I am wrong.

 

This is where you and a lot of our cross-border brethren seem to have the blindspot - Indians have been at the receiving end of an undeclared war, inflicted by cowardly proxies who hide behind civilians and provide "plausible deniability".  

Anyway, you seem like a nice cricket fan, and I don't want to drag this political discussion too long.  Ideally, it would be really nice to have some India-Pakistan cricket - its a great rivalry and makes for great cricket.  Maybe after a few years, once terrorism is truly history in our neck of the woods...

[KeyboardWarrior]

 

I'm disappointed by the whole state of affairs we find our selves.

 

I'm disappointed by the fact that a bunch of morons like Shiv Sena have such power and influence over Indian cricket that they can decide which meetings should take place, which venues should be, which officials and commentators should be used etc.

 

I'm disappointed that a significant proportion of Indians see Pakistan as a "terrorist state" and want no ties what so ever with the country. I was always under the impression that such hostilities between the two countries were present only at a political level and juvenile/immature level whilst the general public in both nations had no real ill feelings towards the other - looks like I may have been wrong about that.....or maybe not.

 

I'm disappointed that the once greatest rivalry in sports has fizzled out into nothing more than a laughing stock simply due to poor planning and a power struggle.

 

Most of all I'm disappointed by the number of fans I have come across on this forum and another who seem perfectly content with what's happened in the last few days and are still thumping their chest and boasting about the power BCCI hold in world cricket, rather than looking inwards and trying to fix some glaring issues and problems which seem to have surfaced.

 

 

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Welcome to the Real World my Friend ...... 

[TalhaSyed]

This is where you and a lot of our cross-border brethren seem to have the blindspot - Indians have been at the receiving end of an undeclared war, inflicted by cowardly proxies who hide behind civilians and provide "plausible deniability".  

Anyway, you seem like a nice cricket fan, and I don't want to drag this political discussion too long.  Ideally, it would be really nice to have some India-Pakistan cricket - its a great rivalry and makes for great cricket.  Maybe after a few years, once terrorism is truly history in our neck of the woods...

As for the governments - we have a difference of opinion and that's fine.

As for the undeclared war & I believe someone (maybe it was you) mentioned the Kashmir conflict. Please do look at the number of civilian (and military) casualties during that conflict in the last 2-3 years when/if you get the chance. Unfortunately there have been significant damages on both sides of the border.

However, all in all - you are absolutely right. There is no point dragging out the political discussion since there is plenty of dirt to fling around until the cows come home - there is no point what so ever in doing that. Ideally - you are right - it would be great to see the end of these incidents and have India vs Pakistan back out on the cricket field again.

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[Malcolm Merlyn]

@TalhaSyed

Nice to see you here.Just want to say one thing,some of your country mates on your forum believe that 26/11 was false flag.I am sure you would have seen that.Some dismiss Indians being killed as "Mover On".Doesnt happen like that.

The general public in India is hardly interested in any cricket with Pakistan.

And though everyone of us condemns what ShivSena has done,the threats from PCB and Pakistan on withdrawing from World T20 or Miandad asking cricketers not to visit India will not put any fear in anyone in India it has only harden the stance on Indians to stay away from PCB,come what may.

[sandeep]

 

As for the undeclared war & I believe someone (maybe it was you) mentioned the Kashmir conflict. Please do look at the number of civilian (and military) casualties during that conflict in the last 2-3 years when/if you get the chance. Unfortunately there have been significant damages on both sides of the border.

 

 

Again with the wishful false equivalence.  There is no comparison between shiv sena idiots throwing ink on a writer's face, or disrupting meetings, in their own country, vs Pakistani terrorists exploding bombs and killing people in Indian cities.  And terrorism casualties in Pakistan are self-inflicted.  There are no Muridke camps on the Indian side with military style training for "charity workers" who like to visit neighboring countries for hindu jihad.  Pakistanis need to stop drinking their own kool aid, that its all the same.  Their government has been committing murder in their names, often with the majority support - vocal and shameless at worst, silent at best.  Until these realities change, it is self-serving naivete to expect Indian attitudes to change.   And that does not make Indians any less peace-loving.  

[kosingh]

 

 

Unlike some of my Indian countrymen here, in order to determine whether cricket should be played between Ind and Pak, I don't want to establish which country is fault in the decades old conflict. The fact that there's on-going hostility between the countries is sufficient reason for cricket not to be played between the teams. Once both countries go through 2-3 years to 100% peace we can talk about playing cricket. 

 

[kruiser]

I dream of a day the whole cricket world unites against India, boycott them and and their fecking IPL to teach a lesson for their inhuman, racist discrimination.

smell the burnt raavan on dussehra?

[kruiser]

I am a Hindu, patriotic Indian.  I wish Modi would go out and declare in clear words - Pakistan may be a muslim country, but not all muslims are Pakistanis.

Pakistan may be our enemy and you can block them all you want, but Muslims living in India have same rights as a Hindu living in India.

We are not Pakistan and cannot treat a citizen like they do. If someone breaks the law, you cannot punish him in public courts.

 

I am sure this will increase his respect in all quarters and he will be unhindered in his pursuit of development agenda.

 

But this is a wish, and I guess will remain a wish.

[G_B_]

ok i think enough points have been made on this thread.... views which would be better suited to the political/general chit chat section than cricket.

 

So please by all means start a new thread and carry on in the other sections.