Team India's T20 Batting Strategy - Consistency at the cost of cutting-edge?

[WC2011INDIA]

sandeep / Adi ...

^ Would you not admit that ICF-fans were cocky too? Despite knowing our weakness (barring Kohli) - there was so much chest-thumping going on saying we will crush Bangladesh. (bulbul always does it, but I am talking about others). Anyway the result is a stark reality which once again will be ignored by jingoistic fans.

Yep. Should be an eye opener for blind nationalistic/jingoistic fans.

[sandeep]

sandeep / Adi ...

^ Would you not admit that ICF-fans were cocky too? Despite knowing our weakness (barring Kohli) - there was so much chest-thumping going on saying we will crush Bangladesh. (bulbul always does it, but I am talking about others). Anyway the result is a stark reality which once again will be ignored by jingoistic fans.

Sure.  But can't blame fans for expecting a team that has won 10 of 12 games in the last few months to handle their business comfortably against an up-and-coming team.  

Reality is that Bangladesh were brilliant and played at their personal best in the 1st 30 overs of the game, and fell short.  Saved umpteen boundaries, took a spectacular catch, bowled tight and executed well conceived game plans.  India on the other hand, are nowhere near their best with the bat - dropped easy catches and misfields - very uncharacteristic, and still found a way to win.  So expecting to win against Bangbros 99 times out of 100 is not jingoistic, its just data-driven.  

Jingoistic would be expecting to win the world cup with this batting lineup.  And as this thread demonstrates - I for one, was very clear-eyed about the chinks we have in our team, well before the tournament started.  

[zen]

We can be happy that we pulled off the win but our performance needs to improve .... Let's not act as if we beat BD by 20 runs. It was BD's game to lose .... And we need to pull up our socks from performance off the field (planning) to performance on the field  (implementation) 

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by rett

[Adi_91]

sandeep / Adi ...

^ Would you not admit that ICF-fans were cocky too? Despite knowing our weakness (barring Kohli) - there was so much chest-thumping going on saying we will crush Bangladesh. (bulbul always does it, but I am talking about others). Anyway the result is a stark reality which once again will be ignored by jingoistic fans.

I am extremely critical of this batting line up. Especially the top when we have stroke makers in the form of Rohit and Dhawan. I don't mind Dhawan getting out being caught near the boundary, but LBWs, getting stumped is horrible.

Also, I am being very honest here. With the way this team has gone about its business, we look weaker all of a sudden. Atm, we may not win this World Twenty20. It looks a far cry if you have to scratch for a win against a weak side. We are being realistic here. Nobody is claiming that we will win this cup. Is there anybody?

[sandeep]

I am extremely critical of this batting line up. Especially the top when we have stroke makers in the form of Rohit and Dhawan. I don't mind Dhawan getting out being caught near the boundary, but LBWs, getting stumped is horrible.

Also, I am being very honest here. With the way this team has gone about its business, we look weaker all of a sudden. Atm, we may not win this World Twenty20. It looks a far cry if you have to scratch for a win against a weak side. We are being realistic here. Nobody is claiming that we will win this cup. Is there anybody?

We just need a couple of the batsmen to catch fire.  Sometimes all it takes is one good connection and the batsman suddenly finds his form.  We will need one of our openers to come good if we want to win against Oz.  Since they don't really have good spinners, I think Dhawan has a good chance.  

[Adi_91]

We just need a couple of the batsmen to catch fire.  Sometimes all it takes is one good connection and the batsman suddenly finds his form.  We will need one of our openers to come good if we want to win against Oz.  Since they don't really have good spinners, I think Dhawan has a good chance.  

Yeah, Aus's bowling is a weakness for them. Have to target their weakness.

[sandeep]

Can't wait to see Bumrah castle Steve smith.

[sandeep]

IF CA are even a bit smart

 

They ll take off smith and replace with Finch at 1st

 

This guy is hopeless in T20's but lucky we are LOL

Agreed.  But they made him captain and put Finch on the bench! 

[Nash]

lovely analysis. Good constructive thread

[sandeep]

On 3/9/2016 at 11:16 AM, sandeep said:

Today's warm-up games in progress showcase two contrasting batting tactics - India have scored 185 against the WI while the Kiwis have piled up 226 against SL.  Under Dhoni, India has always looked to start cautiously and first ensure that we don't fall into a sub-par total.  Having ensured that, then we try to maximize the scoring in the 2nd half.  Such a strategy ensures that we don't "lose" the game in the 1st 10 overs,  but it also sacrifices the possibility of piling up a monster score that would "win" the game in the 1st innings.  

Contrast that with some of the other approaches in the modern game - where teams such as Australia, McCullum's Kiwis and lately even the Pommies.  They start off aiming at 200 and look to get off to a big start and try to put scoreboard pressure on the bowlers.  They are ready to lose a few wickets up top, even if it opens up the possibility of a par or below-par total at the end of 20 overs.  To put it in scoreboard terms, they are more likely to go for 65-70 odd in the first 6 overs, even if 2 wickets are lost, while India is more likely to aim at 40-odd for no loss.  

India's risk mitigation approach has resulted in a very high win percentage, and its difficult to argue against wins.  But as the WC T20 starts, India's approach keeps a big risk on the table - especially batting first - they might end up with a 170-190 total on a track where you would need 210 or so to defend successfully.  Will Dhoni and co. be able to change their tactics if they go up against a quality batting unit and have to set a target?  

To some degree, its the mix of team personnel that have led us to this approach - Before the blooding of Hardik Pandya, and Yuvi's recent resurgence, we had a gaping hole in the middle-order that necessitated such a cautious approach.  This personnel issue is addressed to some extent, with even Dhoni finding a few big hits lately.  But the question is, will the team set their sights a bit higher as a matter of strategy?  Its no secret that Dhoni's instinct is to take the game as deep as possible and then take his chances - but such a one-note approach can be a bit predictable and easy to game-plan against.  I would be very surprised for instance, if more teams didn't start using their 2nd rung bowlers against India in the 1st 10 overs, or even powerplay overs, knowing that India will not risk too much too early.  

Personally, I believe their current approach is good enough to contend, but likely to fall short of championship victory.  There will come a time in the WC, that India will need to seize the initiative and risk failure in chasing success, batting first.    Let's hope that we are able to do so, and just win, baby

 

Bump.   This is what I was worried about before the WC started...

[sandeep]

Not the worst score.  We can still win this if we get some timely wickets.  But need a bit of luck. 

 

Left at least 20-25 runs on the table there.  

[MK55]

This is the root cause. Our cricket and team strategies are obsolete. This was evident when MS was asked to respond on Sammy's comment that we were 10 runs short.
We needed 210 minimum.

How many sixes have we hit on this miniscule ground?  Just 4 while they smashed 11. Pathetic. 

[sandeep]

4 hours ago, MK55 said:

How many sixes have we hit on this miniscule ground?  Just 4 while they smashed 11. Pathetic. 

 

That's a telling stat on a batting track with small boundaries.  We were lucky to get 192 the way we batted.  Batting tactics and order needs a re-think, got exposed today...

[sarcastic]

The problem you were talking did not happen.

A score of 55 for 0 in 6 overs is a very good start. 

 

If only Rahane was also able to hit sixers like Rohit Sharma, there would have been more runs on board. 

[Adi_91]

1 minute ago, Viper said:

 I knew we are soo done if this rahane is there

 

If i was bravo i would have dropped the catch.. Would be around 170-175 max 

 

Last time we played Rahane in the Wankhede, we lost too in the warm up. The deadly combo did us in.

[sandeep]

46 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

The problem you were talking did not happen.

A score of 55 for 0 in 6 overs is a very good start. 

 

If only Rahane was also able to hit sixers like Rohit Sharma, there would have been more runs on board. 

Its not just one man thats the problem, its the approach.  We eschew taking risks or attacking the bowlers till 13th or 14th over at the earliest.  That mindset needs to be flexible if we are playing T20s on batting tracks like the wankhede, where its a straight power-hitting shootout.  

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, Viper said:

 I knew we are soo done if this rahane is there

 

If i was bravo i would have dropped the catch.. Would be around 170-175 max 

Kya soch ke Rahane ko liya tha ke test match khel rahe hain. I would have opened with Pandey and Negi in place of Yuvraj.

[kosingh]

We consistently seem to underestimate par score when batting first. 

[kosingh]

Like in the ODI series in Australia a few months ago.  The first 3 matches. Motto seemed to be "put up around 300 on the board, and that's plenty". 

 

And we put on around 300 on the board 3 matches in a row. And lost all. 

 

Somehow we are out of touch with the realities of modern cricket. On flat batting paradises in 50 over cricket, 300 is not enough. On flat batting paradises and small grounds in T20 cricket, 195 is not enough.  

 

I don't know if it's Dhoni that's behind our out of date thinking. But I suspect Ravi Shastri has something to do with it. 

[Adi_91]

5 minutes ago, kosingh said:

Like in the ODI series in Australia a few months ago.  The first 3 matches. Motto seemed to be "put up around 300 on the board, and that's plenty". 

 

And we put on around 300 on the board 3 matches in a row. And lost all. 

 

Somehow we are out of touch with the realities of modern cricket. On flat batting paradises in 50 over cricket, 300 is not enough. On flat batting paradises and small grounds in T20 cricket, 195 is not enough.  

 

I don't know if it's Dhoni that's behind our out of date thinking. But I suspect Ravi Shastri has something to do with it. 

 

The truth is, our batting line up (with Kohli esp) does better with a target to chase. These days with the way pitches are getting flat, calculating a par score is hard.

 

So, it has become a habit o chase if they win the toss. Overall, in Aus, chasing under lights is considered tough, so we batted first whenever we could and tried to make 300+. Tbh, they should have been defended if not for the extremely flat pitches in Aus. Such pitches are now commonplace worldwide.