Big B Movies

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

An exposition re: Pratik Borade would help!

 

The age you watch it at determines your overall bias to the film. I saw it circa 2012/13 and liked it.Saw many parallels with Anna Hazare movement. 

I can’t nail down anything particular but since we are discussing udaan 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

5 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@zen @coffee_rules @maniac @Jimmy Cliff @Gollum@ravishingravi

Have you guys seen AB's "Main Azaad hoon"?

 What are your views on the movie? 

Ahead of its time? Or confirming to the socialist zeitgeist?

 

I think the ideas on display in the movie have some commonalities with the rise of AAP as an ideology. Minus the martyrdom part ofcourse.

 

In my Bucket list, will certainly watch it, now you that you  mention AAP

[coffee_rules]

6 hours ago, maniac said:

I can’t nail down anything particular but since we are discussing udaan 

 

 

sometimes he’s off, like for Newton Maybe Have to watch Udaan again. When I saw it, I didn’t feel there was a deliberate narrative set like Sacred Games or Ghoul. 

[zen]

Agneepath's 30th Anniversary trailer: 

 

 

 

 

Like AB in Agneepath. Another gangster role of AB which I like is Don, what a good trailer below too:

 

 

 

[ravishingravi]

On 7/24/2021 at 5:19 PM, Mariyam said:

@zen @coffee_rules @maniac @Jimmy Cliff @Gollum@ravishingravi

Have you guys seen AB's "Main Azaad hoon"?

 What are your views on the movie? 

Ahead of its time? Or confirming to the socialist zeitgeist?

 

I think the ideas on display in the movie have some commonalities with the rise of AAP as an ideology. Minus the martyrdom part ofcourse.

 

The movie was copied / inspired by Elia Kazan’s «  A face in the crowd » with similar implications. Kazan was a part of the underground communist movement in America and was said to have ratted out on his colleagues during McCarthy era. This was un some ways his coming out. 

[ravishingravi]

On 7/26/2021 at 7:15 PM, zen said:

Agneepath's 30th Anniversary trailer: 

 

 

 

 

Like AB in Agneepath. Another gangster role of AB which I like is Don, what a good trailer below too:

 

 

 

I think Don is technically at par with the best Indian movies. Perhaps Bachan’s top 5 performances. 

[zen]

20 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

I think Don is technically at par with the best Indian movies. Perhaps Bachan’s top 5 performances. 

 

Technically, Don is strong -> brilliant story, nice acting, one of the greatest background scores of Bollywood, superb cast, good songs, etc. ... It may have a few weaknesses, but its key strengths more than cover up for those weaknesses 

 

[Mariyam]

On 7/28/2021 at 9:22 PM, zen said:

 

Technically, Don is strong -> brilliant story, nice acting, one of the greatest background scores of Bollywood, superb cast, good songs, etc. ... It may have a few weaknesses, but its key strengths more than cover up for those weaknesses 

 

This is grossly *unfair*.

 

You will audit AAA with a microscope with a 10000x magnifying power but gloss over the massive plot holes in Don?

Why? Because you are favourable predisposed towards it?

 

Pran, who is limping around for most of the movie, is walking across a rope.

Pran the lame, Zeenat wearing a bob-cut and Vijay Banaraswala are jumping around the graveyard throwing the diary from one to the other in a manner that would put Olympic gymnasts to shame.

Vardhan has to be on valium. Slowest crime boss ever. Took 10 minutes of the climax for him to realize that something was amiss. 

[zen]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

This is grossly *unfair*.

 

You will audit AAA with a microscope with a 10000x magnifying power but gloss over the massive plot holes in Don?

Why? Because you are favourable predisposed towards it?

 

Pran, who is limping around for most of the movie, is walking across a rope.

Pran the lame, Zeenat wearing a bob-cut and Vijay Banaraswala are jumping around the graveyard throwing the diary from one to the other in a manner that would put Olympic gymnasts to shame.

Vardhan has to be on valium. Slowest crime boss ever. Took 10 minutes of the climax for him to realize that something was amiss. 

 

I am judging films based on their key focus, along with the use of resources for their time ... At times, I also consider challenges a film faced during its production. For e.g. if a film had been in production for a long time. 

 

Don is, by and large, action focused. It has a relatively unique story where a Don is replaced by a lookalike ...There is no "growing up" part as well which can make films start on the wrong foot ... Acting by key characters is pretty good ... Many of its dialogues including "Don ko pakda na mushkil hi nahi, namumkin hai" are memorable ... The action sequences are good as well whether it is Don throwing a briefcase with explosives in it or Vijay taking on Shakaal in the police van ...  Its background score is among the best in Bollywood. Songs are memorable as well ... Amitabh Bachchan's dressing style is pretty good too (esp. for that era) with dotted shirts and all

 

Don is not a perfect film, but it has aged relatively well as its key strengths combine to overcome its weaknesses ... AAA is drama-comedy focused. It has the tired "growing up" part, recycled "lost and found" theme for the key characters. A poor background score. And other points as discussed earlier ... Recently, I also saw Namak Haram but did not mention it here as it is more of a Rajesh Khanna film. It would judge it as a drama film. Overall, it still remains good for what it aims to be.  

 

If I have to segment films, from the recently watched ones (per current dynamics): 

 

• Great (9-10/10): Anand (a thread on it), Sholay (as a curry western), Agneepath (as a gangster film, bonus points for AB' performance)
• Good (7-8/10): Namak Haram (as a drama film), Don (as a fun action stylish film)
• Average/Timepass (5-6/10): Deewar, Amar Akbar Anthony, Parvarish, Ram Balram, Shaan, Namak Halaal, Hum
• Mostly for fans (3-4/10): Hera Pheri, Kasme Vaade, The Great Gambler, Kaala Patthar, Suhaag, Dostana, Mahaan
• Bad (1-2/10): Khuda Gawah (watched it by skipping many segments) 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by zen

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

This is grossly *unfair*.

 

You will audit AAA with a microscope with a 10000x magnifying power but gloss over the massive plot holes in Don?

Why? Because you are favourable predisposed towards it?

 

Pran, who is limping around for most of the movie, is walking across a rope.

Pran the lame, Zeenat wearing a bob-cut and Vijay Banaraswala are jumping around the graveyard throwing the diary from one to the other in a manner that would put Olympic gymnasts to shame.

Vardhan has to be on valium. Slowest crime boss ever. Took 10 minutes of the climax for him to realize that something was amiss. 

You missed his eloquent praise and defence of Dharmatma , a B-grade movie copy of Ahem... Godfather. He has his favs and he defends them. Wanted to copy his audit of Deewar and do it on Sholay/Dharmatma. But, I will do it when I have some time. 

[zen]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

You missed his eloquent praise and defence of Dharmatma , a B-grade movie copy of Ahem... Godfather. He has his favs and he defends them.

 

I watch tons of films and therefore have tons of favorites in various languages and genres. I do not have to rate a film high because it is a favorite or vice versa. For e.g. Ram Balram, Namak Halaal, Hum, etc., are among my favorites 

 

As for Dharmatma, it is a relatively unique masala film for adapting the Godfather story (whether from the book or film) to Bollywood. Nice use of locations, background score (considerable hard work done on it). No unnecessary "growing up" parts. Nice songs, starcast and so on  

 

 

Quote

Wanted to copy his audit of Deewar and do it on Sholay/Dharmatma. But, I will do it when I have some time. 

 

Why would you want to copy me? 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by zen

[coffee_rules]

14 minutes ago, zen said:

 

I watch tons of films and therefore have tons of favorites in various languages and genres. I do not have to rate a film high because it is a favorite or vice versa. For e.g. Ram Balram, Namak Halaal, Hum, etc., are among my favorites 

 

As for Dharmatma, it is a relatively unique masala film for adapting the Godfather story (whether from the book or film) to Bollywood. Nice use of locations, background score (considerable hard work done on it). No unnecessary "growing up" parts. Nice songs, starcast and so on  

 

 

 

Why would you want to copy me? 

 

 

Parodying 

[zen]

1 minute ago, coffee_rules said:

Parodying 

 

But why?

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, zen said:

 

But why?

For fun, Bhai! I don’t nitpick old movies for logic. Different times, different sensibilities and mindset. Somebody here praised Ittefaq. I found the movie atrocious, the acting of the main leads There are other movies of that era like Dhund, that is ok in the acting dept. But your defence of Don and Dharmatma with similar logic and the way you take down AAA and Deewar shows you have favs. I don’t believe in top 10 lists or best movie lists, I watch it and like it. 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

For fun, Bhai! I don’t nitpick old movies for logic. Different times, different sensibilities and mindset. Somebody here praised Ittefaq. I found the movie atrocious, the acting of the main leads There are other movies of that era like Dhund, that is ok in the acting dept. But your defence of Don and Dharmatma with similar logic and the way you take down AAA and Deewar shows you have favs. I don’t believe in top 10 lists or best movie lists, I watch it and like it. 

 

Ok, but I would prefer to read it more if you wrote it in your style as I can see through it how you connected with those films. If you write like me, you could miss conveying your emotions. 

 

I have provided reasons as to why those films work or do not work. Just because a film was rated higher in the past, it does not mean it remains so now. Just because a film that was not rated earlier, it does not mean that it will not rise up. 

 

What makes you think that AAA and Dewaar are/were any less favorites than Don, Dharmatma or whatever? Namak Halaal is a bigger favorite for me than a Namak Haram but I rate the later as overall a better film. Despite making it clear on many occasions, you keep making assumptions about me based on your outlook on life. 

[zen]

In Aug, I plan to catch up on John Huston films. This weekend, I have to finish “The Greatest Story Ever Told” and “Kwaidan”, with Exodus (1960) next in the list. 
 

But if in mood, may try to squeeze in one more AB film

[zen]

Zanjeer ... I had not watched this film in a long time so was not sure what to expect. Some of the AB films that I watched recently, expecting them to still remain strong, have turned out to be mixed bags ... I am glad to say that this one holds up well esp. for an early 70s action-drama film. Even though the film has a few masala elements to cater to the Bollywood audience, I would not count it as a 100% masala film. It has a focused cop versus crime boss theme. 

 

Technically speaking, the story remains concentrated on the key theme. There is no unnecessary comedy or tragedy thrown in to distract attention. The action sequences capture the intended rawness of the film. Background score by Kalyanji Anandji is acceptable. The score has been recycled in other films like Khoon Pasina iirc (from the memory as I have not seen it recently) but does its job here too  ... Talking about some of the non-masalaness, the key character does not sing any songs ...  The highlight for the film are its many of the characters. 

 

Vijay and his team:

• Vijay. This is basically Vijay's story where he goes through various ups and downs. As a child, he witnessed a horrific incident but was lucky to find a family to raise him. He is an honest cop who shoots first and talks later. The role required certain passion and aggression which AB displays very well ... If I am not wrong, the role was offered to likes of Raaj Kumar who did not accept it as he did not like the smell of oil on the director's hair. It was probably also offered to Rajesh Khanna, who was not in sync with the main character not singing songs. Dev Anand is said to have passed the film as well. 
• Sher Khan. Supposed to be a standard character that helps the main character but Pran puts in his touch. Though his character has "filmy" moments. 
• Mala. A likeable character. Her big moment is when she frees Vijay to continue with his quest for justice, telling him to erupt like a volcano to vent all his anger out. 
• De Silva (Uncle). Nicely played by Om Prakash. The dangers of fake products (wine, medicine, etc.) to the society is adequately conveyed through his role. 

 

Teja and his team:

• Teja. One of the coolest Bollywood villains. He is calculating therefore a nice foil to Vijay's passion and aggression. Has memorable dialogues include saying "Maine toh kitne khoon kiye hai " as if it is normal to do so, and his interactions with Mona. 
• Mona. Bindu has done such roles in other films but this one is memorable. She is good in the song "Dil Jalon Ka Dil Jala Ke Kya Milega Dilruba".

Teja and Mona can fit in a Bond film too. 
 

To mention some of the cons, there are cinematic conveniences such as Mala showing up at Teja's secret hideout to throw knives when Sher Khan is held up by the goons (but it is minor so you would not mind it considering how strong the rest of the film is). In the version that I saw, there was an issue with an insert when Teja is talking to Mona about his ex-boss when an insert of his goons smoking outside the room appears to be wrongly placed as that insert is again repeated in another scene iirc. Capturing and following trucks can appear repetitive ... As I have said, if a film has strong key strengths, they will overcome such weaknesses. 

 

Zanjeer is probably one of the films that made Bollywood transition to action genre in the 70s.  Relatively speaking, it is a non-masala film with a focused cop versus a crime boss story line which hold up well. 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by zen

[zen]

Bindu shows energy in her dance in the song below. The color timing is different in the video -> her dress is yellow, in the version I saw, it was more towards peach ... Anyways Zanjeer needs a proper restoration:

 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by zen

[zen]

Aakhree Rasta … Haven’t watched this in a long long time … A nice old fashioned more or less to the point action drama whose highlight is AB v AB battles 

 

Liked the scenes where police constables are themselves taking about how David will be successful in killing the doctor whom police is protecting and how Vijay & DIJ will have to resign 

 

 

 

 

[Mariyam]

3 hours ago, zen said:

Aakhree Rasta … Haven’t watched this in a long long time … A nice old fashioned more or less to the point action drama whose highlight is AB v AB battles 

 

Liked the scenes where police constables are themselves taking about how David will be successful in killing the doctor whom police is protecting and how Vijay & DIJ will have to resign 

 

 

 

 

It's a very meh movie. Generally AB keeps you engrossed by his screen presence, but this one wasn't watchable.

Isn't the plot line very formulaic and predictable?

The only redeeming factor was AB's unintentionally? clumsy dance in the song Gori ka Saajan, Saajan ki Gori.