End of Saha's Indian career?

[Tibarn]

It's one match, Saha has batted well enough, although not great, for a #6-7, I doubt he get's replaced by PP, especially since PP also didn't have a great time with the gloves.  If he gets replaced, it will probably be for Naman Ohja or if Pant gets fast-tracked to the team. 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Texan said:

Where has he shown that in demanding situations??? In Adelaide, played a horrendous innings and got out in 4th innings. Even in Rajkot, when we had to just shut shop and block, he came out trying to hit out and again got out. His 4th innings average is 5 runs - hardly any contribution in really demanding situations.

Who scored runs in WI when we were 126/5, who socred that 100. WHo scored those runs in SL, 2 50s in demanding situation. scored a 54 not out at Kolkata when we were 200/6, only Pujara and Rahane had scored runs in that innings.  IN 2nd test at SL, were were 250 odd for 5 and Saha scored a 50 and helped us to reach close to 400. Problem with a lot of people is that they remember 1-2 failed innings and keep parroting them. Short memories when it comes to good innings. and this case is only with regards a few players.

[Cricketics]

People need to realize that Saha scored at no.6-7  the amount of runs under pressure which even Dhoni could not do it for so long.

 

I am not big fan of Saha, but he has done more than decent and does not deserve to be left out. His situation is same like Murali Vijay. They both have done enough in recent history to be not dropped. Saha should actually be the first choice keeper and PP can just play as a batsman in this series.

[Texan]

19 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Who scored runs in WI when we were 126/5, who socred that 100. WHo scored those runs in SL, 2 50s in demanding situation. scored a 54 not out at Kolkata when we were 200/6, only Pujara and Rahane had scored runs in that innings.  IN 2nd test at SL, were were 250 odd for 5 and Saha scored a 50 and helped us to reach close to 400. Problem with a lot of people is that they remember 1-2 failed innings and keep parroting them. Short memories when it comes to good innings. and this case is only with regards a few players.

So, why are you saying that Parthiv cannot score runs in demanding situations? Who scored those 50s in Tests that are registered in Parthiv's name? Who scored a 50 opening the innings in Pakistan that helped us win a series there for the first time ever? Who scored a fast 50 in the last Test in what could have been a tricky chase after Vijay's wicket?

 

The real test of Saha's character came in those 4th innings when he was expected to at least put up a fight. Instead, he chose easy way of trying to hit out and got out. Saha's overall batting average is 28, hardly anything to talk about in an age when wk-batsmen average over 40. Without those scores, he would have been out of the team.

[rkt.india]

29 minutes ago, Texan said:

So, why are you saying that Parthiv cannot score runs in demanding situations? Who scored those 50s in Tests that are registered in Parthiv's name? Who scored a 50 opening the innings in Pakistan that helped us win a series there for the first time ever? Who scored a fast 50 in the last Test in what could have been a tricky chase after Vijay's wicket?

 

The real test of Saha's character came in those 4th innings when he was expected to at least put up a fight. Instead, he chose easy way of trying to hit out and got out. Saha's overall batting average is 28, hardly anything to talk about in an age when wk-batsmen average over 40. Without those scores, he would have been out of the team.

Because Parthiv is good only while opening and there is no tricky situation while opening, especially, in Indian subcontinent. Opening is the best place to bat on. Tricky situation is when pressure is on you, you have 5 wickets down and you need to score runs. Saha has done it a few times. No one can do it every time but he has done it.

 

Regarding the chase, it is certainly crazy to think a chase of 100 could have been tricky on a pitch which was still very good to bat and had no demons.

Edited November 30, 2016 by rkt.india

[fineleg]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Because Parthiv is good only while opening and there is no tricky situation while opening, especially, in Indian subcontinent. Opening is the best place to bat on.

Sorry not true. Opening is a very important and crucial position (and when against good bowlers like Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Stokes). It is a tricky position against the new ball where "specialists" also perish for single digit scores. Parthiv Patel has been admirable there. It ain't so easy.

Edited November 30, 2016 by fineleg

[Texan]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Because Parthiv is good only while opening and there is no tricky situation while opening, especially, in Indian subcontinent. Opening is the best place to bat on. 

Then why in last 80 years of cricket we have only two openers who averages over 50 in India??

[express bowling]

On 11/30/2016 at 9:54 AM, rkt.india said:

Who scored runs in WI when we were 126/5, who socred that 100. WHo scored those runs in SL, 2 50s in demanding situation. scored a 54 not out at Kolkata when we were 200/6, only Pujara and Rahane had scored runs in that innings.  IN 2nd test at SL, were were 250 odd for 5 and Saha scored a 50 and helped us to reach close to 400. Problem with a lot of people is that they remember 1-2 failed innings and keep parroting them. Short memories when it comes to good innings. and this case is only with regards a few players.

 

Saha is averaging 40.06  with the bat in 2016....after he has become acclimatized to international cricket.  Not bad at all.

 

Current form and ability are  most important.

Edited December 2, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, Texan said:

Then why in last 80 years of cricket we have only two openers who averages over 50 in India??

Average 50 is a huge benchmark for any number let alone opening. If someone doesn't average 50 does not mean he is bad. 50 is a benchmark of greatness in test. For an opener average of 40-45 is good enough anywhere in the world.

[Texan]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Saha is averaging 40.06  with the bat in 2016....after he has become acclimatized to international cricket.  Not bad at all.

 

Current form and ability  is most important.

On current form, Parthiv averages 109 with the bat in Tests in 2016.

 

On current form, Saha dropped sitters in Rajkot and averages 12 with the bat in this series.

 

On current form, Rishabh Pant is smashing any bowler that comes in his way left, right and center.

 

On current form Umesh Yadav averages 48 with the ball in 2016. Should he be dropped then?

 

How does "current form" become relevant only in "select" cases?

[Cricketics]

12 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

in Indian subcontinent. Opening is the best place to bat on.

Your argument was right but I am afraid your reasoning to continue to support Saha, is going downhill.

 

How is opening the easiest in subcontinent. Opening is a challenge for any surface, any condition. If you nail it, you nail it, if you don't, you get dropped. 

You will see plenty of middle order players who average 40 plus, but you will hardly see openers averaging 45 plus across all teams. Sehwag and few have done that, not many others. Opening is a different beast. 

 

[Texan]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Average 50 is a huge benchmark for any number let alone opening. If someone doesn't average 50 does not mean he is bad. 50 is a benchmark of greatness in test. For an opener average of 40-45 is good enough anywhere in the world.

You made a statement that suggested opening in India is a piece of cake and is the best position to bat in. So, why are people struggling to even average 50? Even the great Gavaskar has a sub-50 batting average in India while opening. Why so? It is not as easy as you are simplifying it to be.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, Cricketics said:

Your argument was right but I am afraid your reasoning to continue to support Saha, is going downhill.

 

How is opening the easiest in subcontinent. Opening is a challenge for any surface, any condition. If you nail it, you nail it, if you don't, you get dropped. 

You will see plenty of middle order players who average 40 plus, but you will hardly see openers averaging 45 plus across all teams. Sehwag and few have done that, not many others. Opening is a different beast. 

 

how many Indian batsmen averages 50 anyway? you can count them on fingers. SG, SRT, RD, anyone else, Viru at home, Pujara at home mostly at #3 and #3 is as good as opening? If Pujara opens for a long time even he will avergae 50 plus at home. The problem is we have not had quality openers who could average 50 at home. Yes, opening is tough but in comparison to overseas, it is far easier to open the batting in India.

[Cricketics]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

how many Indian batsmen averages 50 anyway? you can count them on fingers. SG, SRT, RD, anyone else, Viru at home, Pujara at home mostly at #3 and #3 is as good as opening? If Pujara opens for a long time even he will avergae 50 plus at home. The problem is we have not had quality openers who could average 50 at home. Yes, opening is tough but in comparison to overseas, it is far easier to open the batting in India.

You are answering yourself. You said "Parthiv is good only while opening" which sparked the reaction as you were indigating as if batting on top is easy. 

[Bleed-Blue]

Saha only preforms against weak teams 

[rkt.india]

3 minutes ago, Cricketics said:

You are answering yourself. You said "Parthiv is good only while opening" which sparked the reaction as you were indigating as if batting on top is easy. 

ask PP where he would like to bat at 7 or open, he will straight away say open. average 50 is a benchmark for greatness in test cricket, that is why so few batsmen average 50, but it doesnt mean others who dont average 50 are bad. I will be happy to find two openers who can average 45. Thing is we have not had good openers. Even Sehwag was a makeshift opener who succeeded. It depends a lot on quality of batsman, not just number a batsman bat. Rahane and Pujara will be successful even if they open in Indian conditions because they are good batsmen. 

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, Texan said:

On current form, Parthiv averages 109 with the bat in Tests in 2016.

 

On current form, Saha dropped sitters in Rajkot and averages 12 with the bat in this series.

 

On current form, Rishabh Pant is smashing any bowler that comes in his way left, right and center.

 

On current form Umesh Yadav averages 48 with the ball in 2016. Should he be dropped then?

 

How does "current form" become relevant only in "select" cases?

 

Saha averages 40 over 9 test matches .....it is not really comparable with someone who has played only one test. 

 

Parthiv definitely deserves more chances as a specialist  opener after his good showing with the bat ....his keeping has been bad....so not as keeper but just as batsman.

 

Only one bad test match as keeper can happen to anyone. Typical knee-jerk reaction.  Failing in 2 test matches with the bat is again par for the course for all batters. Has happened to Rahane, Kohli, Pujara, Vijay even ...in this season.

 

Rishabh Pant is playing well in Ranji Trophy league matches.  The quality of bowling is nowhere close to international cricket.....moreover, his showing and current form will probably earn him a place in the LOI series against England and his form will probably pay off.  We know nothing about his current form as a wicket-keeper.

 

Umesh Yadav deserves to be dropped in test matches based on current form.

 

Current form can only be ignored if we are dealing with a high class player who is known to work hard and come back strongly after a bad patch.  We don't have any such wicket-keeper waiting in the wings.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, Bleed-Blue said:

Saha only preforms against weak teams 

NZ-SL are weak teams? Same SL thrashed Australia.

[Laaloo]

8 minutes ago, Bleed-Blue said:

Saha only preforms against weak teams 

Nonsense

[rkt.india]

31 minutes ago, Texan said:

You made a statement that suggested opening in India is a piece of cake and is the best position to bat in. So, why are people struggling to even average 50? Even the great Gavaskar has a sub-50 batting average in India while opening. Why so? It is not as easy as you are simplifying it to be.

why are you taking 50 as a benchmark to be successful. How many Indian batsmen anyway average 50 in test cricket? SG, RD, SRT who else, none.They are greats. We are not talking about greats of the game here. Take an example of Rahane-Pujara. If they start opening in India, they will average 45 or more, because they are good batsmen. Not many openers averaged 45 in Indian conditions because they were not good enough and would not have done so even if they had batted in middle order.

Edited November 30, 2016 by rkt.india