Tendulkar v Kohli v Dhoni: Who is the greatest Indian ODI Batsman?

[sandeep]

Just now, putrevus said:

what exactly was that Tendulkar did which nobody did?

If you haven't watched it live in the mid to late 90s, then its hard to accept, no matter how hard others try to explain.  Not to sound all old-timer, but words are never effective in over-riding confirmation bias.  

 

As awesome as VK's numbers are in ODIs - try to picture similar dominating stats but without the VK vulnerability outside off against the moving ball.  Tendy was as dominant, and had a strike-rate that outpaced his peers, without any technical holes in his game.  

[Malcolm Merlyn]

2 minutes ago, kira said:

tendulkar averaged 40+ with a strike rate close to 90 in the 90s and that too as an opener, tell me how many odi players matched that in the 90s?

 

Viv avgd 40 plus with SR of 90.

[Trichromatic]

5 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

Will a donkey be a horse if given steroids?NO

 

But will a avg stud win a derby if given steroids?Likely.

Random post?

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

Random post?

No.Thats analogy.

[kira]

7 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

Viv avgd 40 plus with SR of 90.

viv played never played against his own bowlers, all the great odi bowlers played in the 90s, 90s was the peak of odi cricket, odi cricket was still new during the 70s and 80s, viv would have failed against quality spin, he was already exposed by a mediocre spinner like qadir, having said all that viv is still arguably the greatest odi batsman along with sachin, so if you have to bring viv to argue against sachin that already seals the greatness of tendulkar

Edited January 19, 2017 by kira

[rkt.india]

42 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Kohli has more range of shots than Tendulkar but it would have been interesting to know how Kohli would have fared on subcontinent conditions in the 1990s when pitches were very slow and had low bounce, making it difficult to play lofted shots, plus there used to be lots of reverse swing then.

no batsman had more range of shots than SRT.

[Trichromatic]

4 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

No.Thats analogy.

Random analogy then

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, kira said:

tendulkar averaged 40+ with a strike rate close to 90 in the 90s and that too as an opener, tell me how many odi players matched that in the 90s?

Anwar,Mark Waugh, Jaya even Ganguly were very good. Tendulkar was better than everybody but I still think Kohli has been better impact player than Sachin as far winning matches .

 

Tendulkar had the best ODI year any player every has in history of the game in 1998.Still Kohli is lot calmer in chases and setting up target Sachin was better but Kohli is not bad either there now.

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

28 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Will his overall career be as good as Wasim in ODIs if he is given SA fielders?'

 

Fielding creates a difference but it is not enough to compensate the difference which exists between modern bowlers and bowlers of 90s.

 

No bowler averaging 30+ will become an ATG even with 10 best fielders in the world.

Most of those modern  bowlers would have been crying for mercy if they were playing today.

Edited January 19, 2017 by rkt.india

[Malcolm Merlyn]

2 minutes ago, kira said:

viv played never played against his own bowlers, all the great odi bowlers played in the 90s, 90s was the peak of odi cricket, odi cricket was still new during the 70s and 80s, viv would have failed against quality spin, he was already exposed by a mediocre spinner like qadir, having said all that viv is still arguably the greatest odi batsman along with sachin, so if you have to bring viv to argue against sachin that already seals the greatness of tendulkar

Zaheer Abbas avgd 47 with SR of 85.

 

SRT has a career SR of 86. something.

 

Only 3 people have ever avgd more than Kohli in ODIs.

 

Also there are a total of 4 players to avg 50 plus in ODIs with a SR of 85 plus. Kohli and Dhoni are two of them.

[Trichromatic]

Just now, rkt.india said:

Most of those modern  bowlers would have been crying for mercy if they were playing today.

Yes that I agree. Point is it's easier to bat against these bowlers than those bowlers of 90s and 2000s as most of the tricks (conventional swing, spin, reverse swing) have been taken out of equation.  Now whether that was because their skills or external factors like pitch and ball is different thing. 

[kira]

Just now, putrevus said:

Anwar,Mark Waugh, Jaya even Ganguly were very good. Tendulkar was better than everybody but I still think Kohli has been better impact player than Sachin as far winning matches .

 

Tendulkar had the best ODI year any player every has in history of the game in 1998.Still Kohli is lot calmer in chases and setting up target TSachin was better but Kohli is not bad either there now.

 

yes they were good, but tendulkar was 2 leagues above them, ganguly's strike rate was in the 70s and jayasurya's average was in high 30s, don't remember mark waugh's stats but he was not even close to sachin, anwar was the only one who gave any competition to sachin in both average and strike rate, but even he was comfortably beaten by sachin, give kohli the 90s team and all his impact will go down the drain as well, as good as kohli is right now, he can never match the late 90s tendulkar, no one will

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

Yes that I agree. Point is it's easier to bat against these bowlers than those bowlers of 90s and 2000s as most of the tricks (conventional swing, spin, reverse swing) have been taken out of equation.  Now whether that was because their skills or external factors like pitch and ball is different thing. 

How is conventional swing taken and spin taken out of equation?

 

Look up the rules of ODIs in 90s,2 new balls were used then as well.

[narenpande1]

Imagine how much more legendary Tendulkars status would have been had his consistency been married to a team as dominant as Australia in the late 90s through 2008. Then most of his knocks would have been labeled as " match winning "

 

Perception created by being part of a team that wins most games vs an avg middle table team matters a lot.

 

But nothing should be taken away from Kohli. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by narenpande1

[kira]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Zaheer Abbas avgd 47 with SR of 85.

 

SRT has a career SR of 86. something.

 

Only 3 people have ever avgd more than Kohli in ODIs.

 

Also there are a total of 4 players to avg 50 plus in ODIs with a SR of 85 plus. Kohli and Dhoni are two of them.

lol zaheer abbas with his tiny sample set of 60 odd matches, are you fking serious? who were  the bowlers faced by viv and zaheer and please compare them to bowlers faced by sachin, kohli's average doesn't mean shit, late 90s tendulkar would have averaged in the 60s today, are you seriously comparing stats from different eras? lmao

[putrevus]

Just now, kira said:

yes they were good, but tendulkar was 2 leagues above them, ganguly's strike rate was in the 70s and jayasurya's average was in high 30s, don't remember mark waugh's stats but he was not even close to sachin, anwar was the only one who gave any competition to sachin in both average and strike rate, but even he was comfortably beaten by sachin, give kohli the 90s team and all his impact will go down the drain as well, as good as kohli is right now, he can never match the late 90s tendulkar, no one will

I never said they were better than Sachin but I don't think Sachin was head and shoulders above them. The gap Viv had with his peers I don't think Sachin had that gap. Kohli has that gap at least in run chases.

[Trichromatic]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

How is conventional swing taken and spin taken out of equation?

 

Look up the rules of ODIs in 90s,2 new balls were used then as well.

Pitches.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Just now, kira said:

lol zaheer abbas with his tiny sample set of 60 odd matches, are you fking serious? who were  the bowlers faced by viv and zaheer and please compare them to bowlers faced by sachin, kohli's average doesn't mean shit, late 90s tendulkar would have averaged in the 60s today, are you seriously comparing stats from different eras? lmao

Zaheer faced the bowlers of Viv's team whom you rated as formidable.Viv faced Wasim Kapil IK and the likes.

 

Tendulkar didnt even avg 45 let alone close to 55.Try again.

[MechEng]

47 minutes ago, kira said:

LOL wut 

He does have more shots, Tendulkar is relatively more orthodox. If you watched Kohlu's 82 against Aus in T20 WC you will see how he hits slow yorkers wide outside off stump for fours square off the wicket, never seen Sachin play such a shot even in his peak years.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Just now, Trichromatic said:

Pitches.

 

Pitches dont aid swing.Swing is in the air.