express bowling Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: Once again that stats isnt accurate for 5 and 6 as u mentioned .His strike rate batting at 5 and 6 in last 2 years is 96.39 (excluding Zimbabwe) [url=http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=6;batting_positionmin1=5;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=2;filter=advanced;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=25;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=batting_strike_rate;qualmin2=500;qualval2=runs;spanmin1=04+Feb+2015;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting]Cricinfo[/url] I gave his overall SR in the last 2 years...... which needs to go up SR of 96 at No.5 and No.6, is not good enough either in the last 2 years. Needs to go above 105. And, as I said before, more than the overall SR, it is the slowish starts and consolidating middle part of the innings, which has been the problem. The objective should not be to find loopholes either to find fault with him or to not find fault with him. The objective should be to identify the problems if any and hoping that he rectifies them. Edited February 4, 2017 by express bowling Mosher and Laaloo 2
BeautifulGame Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 The point is that, while his average is still acceptable, he needs to improve his SR at the beginning and middle of his innings, especially if he comes to bat at No. 5 Well that is a wrong point because it's inaccurate . His stats for example batting at no.5 in last 2 years is average 43.40 and Strike rate 98.(That's excluding Zimbabwe ). That's pretty much the 2nd best record if u consider average , run rate and opposition combined.Only De Villiers is head and Shoulders above him and may be Sarfraz
BeautifulGame Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 I gave his overall SR in the last 2 years...... which needs to go up SR of 96 at No.5 and No.6, is not good enough either in the last 2 years. Needs to go above 105. And, as I said before, more than the overall SR, it is the slowish starts and consolidating middle part of the innings, which has been the problem. The objective should not be to find loopholes either to find fault with him or to not find fault with him. The objective should be to identify the problems if any and hoping that he rectifies them. So how many players in last 2 years have a strike rate of 105+ and average 40+ (that should be min for a no.5)? Only De Villiers.So that's pretty unrealistic. Infact apart from Maxwell and De Villiers no one even averages 100+ in ODIs at no.5 .And Maxwell has been dropped from the team for inconsistency .
express bowling Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: Well that is a wrong point because it's inaccurate . His stats for example batting at no.5 in last 2 years is average 43.40 and Strike rate 98.(That's excluding Zimbabwe ). That's pretty much the 2nd best record if u consider average , run rate and opposition combined.Only De Villiers is head and Shoulders above him and may be Sarfraz Dhoni has batted at No.5 and No.6 ( and No.4 also ) in this period. Why cherry pick only the No.5 slots innings only ? Even if you do the stats for the last 2 years ( excluding Zim ) are like this Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s AB de Villiers (SA) 2015-2016 9 8 4 455 162* 113.75 311 146.30 2 2 0 46 18 GJ Maxwell (AUS) 2015-2017 18 16 1 544 102 36.26 408 133.33 1 3 3 58 14 SK Raina (INDIA) 2015-2015 8 8 0 205 65 25.62 205 100.00 0 2 1 16 5 GD Elliott (NZ) 2015-2016 18 16 2 488 84* 34.85 491 99.38 0 4 2 39 13 Shoaib Malik (PAK) 2015-2017 14 14 5 465 55* 51.66 468 99.35 0 3 0 30 15 BA Stokes (ENG) 2015-2017 21 21 3 643 101 35.72 651 98.77 1 3 2 57 18 MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2015-2017 11 11 1 434 134 43.40 443 97.96 1 1 0 28 16 Sarfraz Ahmed (PAK) 2016-2016 8 8 2 419 105 69.83 444 94.36 1 3 0 33 1 SC Williams (ZIM) 2015-2016 12 11 1 304 76 30.40 325 93.53 0 3 1 27 4 MR Marsh (AUS) 2016-2017 12 12 2 345 79* 34.50 370 93.24 0 3 1 30 11 The more relevant No.5 and No.6 together in the last 2 years ( excluding Zim ) are like this Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s AB de Villiers (SA) 2015-2016 9 8 4 455 162* 113.75 311 146.30 2 2 0 46 18 GJ Maxwell (AUS) 2015-2017 27 23 3 788 102 39.40 592 133.10 1 5 3 89 19 KM Jadhav (INDIA) 2016-2017 7 6 2 322 120 80.50 247 130.36 1 1 0 33 9 JC Buttler (ENG) 2015-2017 25 21 3 678 129 37.66 573 118.32 1 4 2 57 18 DA Miller (SA) 2015-2017 21 18 4 550 118* 39.28 485 113.40 2 0 2 43 15 BA Stokes (ENG) 2015-2017 26 25 4 872 101 41.52 805 108.32 1 7 2 72 30 SR Watson (AUS) 2015-2015 6 6 2 206 67 51.50 191 107.85 0 2 0 17 6 GD Elliott (NZ) 2015-2016 20 18 2 550 84* 34.37 538 102.23 0 4 2 45 15 LD Chandimal (SL) 2015-2015 5 5 3 203 65* 101.50 206 98.54 0 2 0 17 2 SK Raina (INDIA) 2015-2015 12 12 0 280 65 23.33 289 96.88 0 2 2 22 7 MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2015-2017 18 18 2 615 134 38.43 638 96.39 1 2 0 41 19 JM Bairstow (ENG) 2015-2016 11 9 2 289 83* 41.28 300 96.33 0 2 0 28 3 Shoaib Malik (PAK) 2015-2017 17 17 5 511 55* 42.58 535 95.51 0 3 0 31 16 Sarfraz Ahmed (PAK) 2016-2016 10 10 2 490 105 61.25 523 93.69 1 3 0 41 1 MR Marsh (AUS) 2015-2017 24 23 6 643 102* 37.82 693 92.78 1 4 2 58 15 JWA Taylor (ENG) 2015-2015 8 8 3 273 98* 54.60 295 92.54 0 3 1 22 8 C Munro (NZ) 2015-2017 8 7 0 207 87 29.57 227 91.18 0 1 0 16 6 Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) 2015-2016 10 8 2 297 89 49.50 328 90.54 0 2 0 24 2 Edited February 4, 2017 by express bowling Mosher 1
express bowling Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: So how many players in last 2 years have a strike rate of 105+ and average 40+ (that should be min for a no.5)? Dhoni has batted at both No.5 and no.6 in the last 2 years as a finisher and both these positions are relevant 7 players have done that and all have good to decent averages too. Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s AB de Villiers (SA) 2015-2016 9 8 4 455 162* 113.75 311 146.30 2 2 0 46 18 GJ Maxwell (AUS) 2015-2017 27 23 3 788 102 39.40 592 133.10 1 5 3 89 19 KM Jadhav (INDIA) 2016-2017 7 6 2 322 120 80.50 247 130.36 1 1 0 33 9 JC Buttler (ENG) 2015-2017 25 21 3 678 129 37.66 573 118.32 1 4 2 57 18 DA Miller (SA) 2015-2017 21 18 4 550 118* 39.28 485 113.40 2 0 2 43 15 BA Stokes (ENG) 2015-2017 26 25 4 872 101 41.52 805 108.32 1 7 2 72 30 SR Watson (AUS) 2015-2015 6 6 2 206 67 51.50 191 107.85 0 2 0 17 6
BeautifulGame Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 Dhoni has batted at No.5 and No.6 ( and No.4 also ) in this period. Why cherry pick only the No.5 slots innings only ? Even if you do the stats for the last 2 years ( excluding Zim ) are like this Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s AB de Villiers (SA) 2015-2016 9 8 4 455 162* 113.75 311 146.30 2 2 0 46 18 GJ Maxwell (AUS) 2015-2017 18 16 1 544 102 36.26 408 133.33 1 3 3 58 14 SK Raina (INDIA) 2015-2015 8 8 0 205 65 25.62 205 100.00 0 2 1 16 5 GD Elliott (NZ) 2015-2016 18 16 2 488 84* 34.85 491 99.38 0 4 2 39 13 Shoaib Malik (PAK) 2015-2017 14 14 5 465 55* 51.66 468 99.35 0 3 0 30 15 BA Stokes (ENG) 2015-2017 21 21 3 643 101 35.72 651 98.77 1 3 2 57 18 MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2015-2017 11 11 1 434 134 43.40 443 97.96 1 1 0 28 16 Sarfraz Ahmed (PAK) 2016-2016 8 8 2 419 105 69.83 444 94.36 1 3 0 33 1 SC Williams (ZIM) 2015-2016 12 11 1 304 76 30.40 325 93.53 0 3 1 27 4 MR Marsh (AUS) 2016-2017 12 12 2 345 79* 34.50 370 93.24 0 3 1 30 11 The more relevant No.5 and No.6 together in the last 2 years ( excluding Zim ) are like this Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s AB de Villiers (SA) 2015-2016 9 8 4 455 162* 113.75 311 146.30 2 2 0 46 18 GJ Maxwell (AUS) 2015-2017 27 23 3 788 102 39.40 592 133.10 1 5 3 89 19 KM Jadhav (INDIA) 2016-2017 7 6 2 322 120 80.50 247 130.36 1 1 0 33 9 JC Buttler (ENG) 2015-2017 25 21 3 678 129 37.66 573 118.32 1 4 2 57 18 DA Miller (SA) 2015-2017 21 18 4 550 118* 39.28 485 113.40 2 0 2 43 15 BA Stokes (ENG) 2015-2017 26 25 4 872 101 41.52 805 108.32 1 7 2 72 30 SR Watson (AUS) 2015-2015 6 6 2 206 67 51.50 191 107.85 0 2 0 17 6 GD Elliott (NZ) 2015-2016 20 18 2 550 84* 34.37 538 102.23 0 4 2 45 15 LD Chandimal (SL) 2015-2015 5 5 3 203 65* 101.50 206 98.54 0 2 0 17 2 SK Raina (INDIA) 2015-2015 12 12 0 280 65 23.33 289 96.88 0 2 2 22 7 MS Dhoni (INDIA) 2015-2017 18 18 2 615 134 38.43 638 96.39 1 2 0 41 19 JM Bairstow (ENG) 2015-2016 11 9 2 289 83* 41.28 300 96.33 0 2 0 28 3 Shoaib Malik (PAK) 2015-2017 17 17 5 511 55* 42.58 535 95.51 0 3 0 31 16 Sarfraz Ahmed (PAK) 2016-2016 10 10 2 490 105 61.25 523 93.69 1 3 0 41 1 MR Marsh (AUS) 2015-2017 24 23 6 643 102* 37.82 693 92.78 1 4 2 58 15 JWA Taylor (ENG) 2015-2015 8 8 3 273 98* 54.60 295 92.54 0 3 1 22 8 C Munro (NZ) 2015-2017 8 7 0 207 87 29.57 227 91.18 0 1 0 16 6 Mushfiqur Rahim (BDESH) 2015-2016 10 8 2 297 89 49.50 328 90.54 0 2 0 24 2 Because u suggested he needed to improve his strike rate if he is going to bat at no.5 Your quote The point is that, while his average is still acceptable, he needs to improve his SR at the beginning and middle of his innings, especially if he comes to bat at No. 5
BeautifulGame Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 Dhoni has batted at both No.5 and no.6 in the last 2 years as a finisher and both these positions are relevant 7 players have done that and all have good to decent averages too. Overall figures Player Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s AB de Villiers (SA) 2015-2016 9 8 4 455 162* 113.75 311 146.30 2 2 0 46 18 GJ Maxwell (AUS) 2015-2017 27 23 3 788 102 39.40 592 133.10 1 5 3 89 19 KM Jadhav (INDIA) 2016-2017 7 6 2 322 120 80.50 247 130.36 1 1 0 33 9 JC Buttler (ENG) 2015-2017 25 21 3 678 129 37.66 573 118.32 1 4 2 57 18 DA Miller (SA) 2015-2017 21 18 4 550 118* 39.28 485 113.40 2 0 2 43 15 BA Stokes (ENG) 2015-2017 26 25 4 872 101 41.52 805 108.32 1 7 2 72 30 SR Watson (AUS) 2015-2015 6 6 2 206 67 51.50 191 107.85 0 2 0 17 6 The point is that, while his average is still acceptable, he needs to improve his SR at the beginning and middle of his innings, especially if he comes to bat at No. 5 So how many players have better strike rate and average than Dhoni at 5? He is promoted to no.5 because he struggled at no.6 ,so that's a moot point for this thread discussion.Since Dhoni is unlikely to bat at 6 in future
Malcolm Merlyn Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 20 minutes ago, Pollack said: Did you watch him run.He is going to defy everyone.He is going to defy age. Devraha Baba would take inspiration from him for fitness.And the legend will continue till 2200.Our own Dhoni (Mar raha wale) baba.
velu Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 28 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said: How many pegs today? no drinks these days
Malcolm Merlyn Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 no drinks these days Bin piiye chadh gaayi.
express bowling Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 38 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: So how many players have better strike rate and average than Dhoni at 5? He is promoted to no.5 because he struggled at no.6 ,so that's a moot point for this thread discussion.Since Dhoni is unlikely to bat at 6 in future It is not moot because positions don't define when a player comes in to bat in terms of overs left or wickets down. Dhoni may bat at No.4 too and he does not have good stats there in the last 2 years. I repeat....his main issue has been his lowish SR during the beginning and often the middle of the innings. If this is not rectified, it will put us in trouble in many matches.....something his overall stats won't fully show because he often makes up if he plays more than 60 balls. Mosher 1
Lord Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 1 minute ago, express bowling said: It is not moot because positions don't define when a player comes in to bat in terms of overs left or wickets down. Dhoni may bat at No.4 too and he does not have good stats there in the last 2 years. I repeat....his main issue has been his lowish SR during the beginning and often the middle of the innings. If this is not rectified, it will put us in trouble in many matches.....something his overall stats won't fully show because he often makes up if he plays more than 60 balls. Dhoni and many other players start slowly.He was always like this. There are few like Raina and Kohli who hit from ball one. I think he will bat at 4-5 now anyways.has good record there AFAIK
express bowling Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Lord said: Dhoni and many other players start slowly.He was always like this. There are few like Raina and Kohli who hit from ball one. I think he will bat at 4-5 now anyways.has good record there AFAIK No.5 is definitely the best slot for Dhoni now. But we have too many slow starters in our ODI team as a whole.... Rohit, Rahul, Yuvraj and Dhoni It becomes a problem due to that reason. The others need to address this issue too as there are too many ODI matches in the last 2 years where scores are 330+ Edited February 4, 2017 by express bowling
Pollack Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Lord said: Dhoni and many other players start slowly.He was always like this. There are few like Raina and Kohli who hit from ball one. I think he will bat at 4-5 now anyways.has good record there AFAIK Rohit is another slow starter.Irritatingly he starts the same regardless of the pitch.Its not even according to merit of the ball.At least players like dhoni, dhawan, rahane just don't spare bad deliveries no matter what. King Tendulkar and Lord 2
Lord Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 1 minute ago, express bowling said: No.5 is definitely the best slot for Dhoni now. But we have too many slow starters in our ODI team as a whole.... Rohit, Rahul, Yuvraj and Dhoni It becomes a problem due to that reason. The others need to address this issue too. I think Raina should come back in ODIs too.Him and Jadhav would make good finishers.Pandya hasnt done much yet but have hopes from him Rohit yes needs to up the RR in powerplays.Not sure why Dhawan was dropped in ODIs after 2 failures.Confusing the formats maybe
Laaloo Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 28 minutes ago, Pollack said: Rohit is another slow starter.Irritatingly he starts the same regardless of the pitch.Its not even according to merit of the ball.At least players like dhoni, dhawan, rahane just don't spare bad deliveries no matter what. Rohit if he gets in he goes ballistic. He makes it up everything in the end. But only if he gets in. He's not the problem in the ODI team. Did you just put Rahane in that list?
Pollack Posted February 4, 2017 Posted February 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, laaloo said: Rohit if he gets in he goes ballistic. He makes it up everything in the end. But only if he gets in. He's not the problem in the ODI team. Did you just put Rahane in that list? I am not saying Rohit is the problem. But with everyone around quite similar(slow starters) he ends up creating problems. Rahane definitely puts bad deliveries away. He should be far away from odi's and t20's though.
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