Defeating Australia in a test match played on a fast, bouncy track -- We are ready to win multiple test series outside Asia now

[Mosher]

We missed a very good opportunity to test some youngsters vs Bangladesh. Iyer, Aniket and Kuldeep should have made their debut in that match. 

[speedheat]

I'm not sold on Shankar what little I've seen of his bowling.  He looks a proper bat, but we need better bowling than what I saw of him.  He's got more to improve than Pandya with the ball IMO.  

 

What spinner(s) to pick in overseas test is going to be tough call - Which one (or two?) out of Jaddu, Ash and Kuldeep/Chahal.  If we gamble with 2 spinners and get to bowl in the 4th innings, there's a chance it may pay off.  

 

Its a shame Kuldeep debuted in the last test of the season, he could do with more test cricket.  He has decent mix of variety, but if he's over-reliant on his wrong 'un than he risks turning into another Piyush Chawla.  Not saying he will, but he needs to be groomed and developed.  Both him and Chahal are 2 top class wrist spinning prospects for us.  It will be interesting to see which one ends up becoming the lead dog a few years down the road.  

 

Bhuvi should really go home and work on his batting.  Look at what Chris Morris did.  If Bhuvi can get to Jadeja level batting for us, and can play as a 4th seamer - nothing like it.  Look at Chris Woakes - I highly rate that guy - I want Bhuvi to be our version of him.

 

You're accepting too much from poor bhvi, well Chris morris bloke is quality the guy can squash a cricket ball as hard as it ever gets,can send some 150kph Scorchers don't think bhuvi can match that , at the moment bhuvi has improved his pace if he can keep tight and swing the new ball and took some wickets with it its enough..

[maniac]

So much faith on this team...only thing lacking is trying out bench strength....lot of exciting and promising names but need to be given a shot....we all saw how exciting it was to watch Kuldeep.

 

Bring in Pant,Kejoriya,The left arm quicks etc etc

Edited March 28, 2017 by maniac

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Rightarmfast said:

What I am trying to say is, on Indian pitches of the 80's and 90's, it wasnt possible to bowl full length. hence, 98% of the bowlers used to bowl short. And that's why they used to suffer while travelling abroad. its pretty simple, the way you practise is the way you perform!

You are wrong. Bowling short isn't a length anywhere, not even in India. Even in India, you Will have to bowl that good length area. Why our bowlers failed overseas is because they would start Bowling short seeing the bounce and pace and not because they were used to Bowling short in India. They would get carried away overseas.

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, speedheat said:

 

You're accepting too much from poor bhvi, well Chris morris bloke is quality the guy can squash a cricket ball as hard as it ever gets,can send some 150kph Scorchers don't think bhuvi can match that , at the moment bhuvi has improved his pace if he can keep tight and swing the new ball and took some wickets with it its enough..

I said I want him to emulate Chris Woakes, not Morris.  Besides, Bhuvi is no mug with the bat, he has enough ability to score test 50 in England.  I don't expect him to turn into a T20 slugger, but he can definitely chip in with meaningful 20s and 30s.  The potential is there.

[maniac]

Just now, sandeep said:

I said I want him to emulate Chris Woakes, not Morris.  Besides, Bhuvi is no mug with the bat, he has enough ability to score test 50 in England.  I don't expect him to turn into a T20 slugger, but he can definitely chip in with meaningful 20s and 30s.  The potential is there.

Right now I will take 10 ducks in a row from Bhuvi in exchange for 1 or 2 wickets with the new ball per game....doesn't have to follow up with more wickets,just 1 or 2 per game with the new ball and that is good enough and I will take that.

[speedheat]

 

 

 

 

I said I want him to emulate Chris Woakes, not Morris.  Besides, Bhuvi is no mug with the bat, he has enough ability to score test 50 in England.  I don't expect him to turn into a T20 slugger, but he can definitely chip in with meaningful 20s and 30s.  The potential is there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So??? Same goes for woakes guy as well, bhuvi can't match him too its batter if he concentrate on bowling alone, you may end up his bowling in trying to convert him as an all rounder !! Remember irfan??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

Right now I will take 10 ducks in a row from Bhuvi in exchange for 1 or 2 wickets with the new ball per game....doesn't have to follow up with more wickets,just 1 or 2 per game with the new ball and that is good enough and I will take that.

Its not about what we will take - the thread discussion is about what we need to win overseas.  And we all know that the runs we are getting at home (or in WI) from Ash-Saha-Jaddu, we can't realistically expect that to be the same.  Since Bhuvi has demonstrated ability in the past in England, and has gotten runs - he clearly has the potential to do it again.   Needs to keep working on his batting though.  He hasn't done much with the bat in recent times.  

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, speedheat said:

 

So??? Same goes for woakes guy as well, bhuvi can't match him too its batter if he concentrate on bowling alone

 

Go check his batting stats in the England series when we toured there.  Its foolish of you to write him off.  

[speedheat]

 

Go check his batting stats in the England series when we toured there.  Its foolish of you to write him off.  

 

 

 

 

Foolishnesses is defied in you trying to make him an all rounder!! My concern is in the process his career may end up like irfan pathan that's it..

 

Kind regards

 

 

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Foolishnesses is defied in you trying to make him an all rounder!! My concern is in the process his career may end up like irfan pathan that's it..

Kind regards

 

The guy scored 3 50s in England.  I don't want him to become an allrounder, but Coach Anil Kumble is on record that the entire batting line-up needs to contribute with the bat.  And the results are all there for people to see. Even Umesh has improved his batting slightly.  

 

And apropos to the discussion about winning overseas - getting meaningful batting contribution from your 2nd or 3rd seamer can go a long way in helping the team balance, and may be the tilting factor in deciding whether we can play an extra spinner or not.  This is going to be a big call for Team India when we go overseas next.  And Bhuvi has a role to play.  

[maniac]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

The guy scored 3 50s in England.  I don't want him to become an allrounder, but Coach Anil Kumble is on record that the entire batting line-up needs to contribute with the bat.  And the results are all there for people to see. Even Umesh has improved his batting slightly.  

 

And apropos to the discussion about winning overseas - getting meaningful batting contribution from your 2nd or 3rd seamer can go a long way in helping the team balance, and may be the tilting factor in deciding whether we can play an extra spinner or not.  This is going to be a big call for Team India when we go overseas next.  And Bhuvi has a role to play.  

Bhuvi's batting is not a class apart that he can get picked on that ability alone. Well if it is a green mamba,then Bhuvi is picked on his reputation as a bowler alone...if it is a perth type of bouncy track or even Durban of old then Shami,Umesh and Ishant will be our top 3 bowlers and no way he gets picked ahead of those 3 on those tracks unless we go with a 4 seam attack.

 

In those 2 cases either ways he is picked and will be expected to bat ahead of the other fast bowlers and obviously ihis batting is not a class apart to be picked as a batsman alone.

 

So either ways it is futile discussion...I rather have him concentrate to enhance his skills and improve stamina levels to sustain pace as I astill think he is an extremely important cog of our bowling attack and has a lot to offer and extremely skilled.

Edited March 28, 2017 by maniac

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, maniac said:

Bhuvi's batting is not a class apart that he can get picked on that ability alone. Well if it is a green mamba,then Bhuvi is picked on his reputation as a bowler alone...if it is a perth type of bouncy track or even Durban of old then Shami,Umesh and Ishant will be our top 3 bowlers and no way he gets picked ahead of those 3 on those tracks unless we go with a 4 seam attack.

 

In those 2 cases either ways he is picked and will be expected to bat ahead of the other fast bowlers and obviously ihis batting is not a class apart to be picked as a batsman alone.

 

So either ways it is futile discussion...I rather have him concentrate to enhance his skills and improve stamina levels to sustain pace as I astill think he is an extremely important cog of our bowling attack and has a lot to offer and extremely skilled.

As usual, you are missing the point.  The point my "acumenical" friend, is that when we play away from home in places that demand 3 pace bowlers in the starting XI, Bhuvi's batting can be part of the solution of the team balance puzzle given the absence of a true pace bowling all-rounder.  For all of Pandya's white ball promise, he's nowhere near a ready selection option at this point.  

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

 

Bhuvi should really go home and work on his batting.  Look at what Chris Morris did.  If Bhuvi can get to Jadeja level batting for us, and can play as a 4th seamer - nothing like it.  Look at Chris Woakes - I highly rate that guy - I want Bhuvi to be our version of him.

 

How will Bhuvi prove his batting ability in test matches in the near future   ?

 

There is only one series of 3 tests against SL before our out-of-Asia tours .....where there is little chance that he will be a regular.

 

Even on the tour to SA, he is unlikely to play all the test matches.

 

Jadeja, Ashwin and Saha have played in all the tests if fit and have had the opportunity to showcase their improvement in batting.

 

An one-off 50 in the opportunities he gets will not give the management confidence to play him as an all-rounder.

Edited March 28, 2017 by express bowling

[sandeep]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

How will Bhuvi prove his batting ability in test matches in the near future   ?

 

There is only one series of 3 tests against SL before our out-of-Asia tours .....where there is little chance that he will be a regular.

 

Even on the tour to SA, he is unlikely to play all the test matches.

 

Jadeja, Ashwin and Saha have played in all the tests if fit and have had the opportunity to showcase their improvement in batting.

 

An one-off 50 in the opportunities he gets will not give the management confidence to play him as an all-rounder.

He scored 3 50s in England, not a one-off.  And I'm not claiming he's a readymade allrounder.  He needs to work a bit on his batting and improve it.    

[express bowling]

44 minutes ago, sandeep said:

He scored 3 50s in England, not a one-off.  And I'm not claiming he's a readymade allrounder.  He needs to work a bit on his batting and improve it.    

I, agree to that.   But those scores were 30 months ago.

 

My question is, how will he show to the team management in the near future that he is good enough to be an all-rounder, even if he improves his batting from here on  ?  He is not a regular in test matches and may miss the Ranji season due to LOI commitments.  

[Pollack]

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Edited March 28, 2017 by Pollack

[Pollack]

Bhuvi has been batting like a tailender since that England series.Don't see batting potential in him. 

Vijay Shankar is ridiculously poor in bowling at the moment. Don't care for stats. I believe in whatever little I saw of him bowling. He is a proper batsman.

 

 

For winning overseas we need to find:

*   1 Opener: Vijay already showing signs of traiting our expections.

*   2 fast bowlers in addition to current bunch. Those should be phaaast and tall (if possible) like say Aniket or khejrolia (fast tracked if does well in IPL). They should have ability to generate bounce and pace.No spray gun Aron please.I would compromise on little pace instead of Aaron. Bhuvi is a must as a swing specialist.

*   Lower Middle order batting: Need to sort out this issue soon. Be it Nair or Rohit or anyone else he should become a reliable batsman by the time we tour overseas.

* Need to test Kuldeep in srilanka series to know what he offers. We can play Jaddu-kuldeep or Ashwin-kuldeep combination but not Jaddu-Ashwin. Of course assuming kuldeep is good enough and track requires playing two spinners.Otherwise select any one depending on conditions.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Pollack

[Late Cut]

This team can do great overseas.  Our seamers are capable of taking 20 wickets a match; in fact, this team is better on fast and bouncy wickets than on slow and turning ones. Jadeja is a lot more effective on quicker and bouncier wickets for one.  Kuldeep can also be impactful on flatter tracks.  It should also be noted that we played the entire series without our best quick- Shami.  Even Ishant is a vastly improved bowler; the trio of Shami, Umesh and Bhuvi (or Ishant, or couple of the up and comers) supported by Jadeja and Ashwin can definitely win overseas. The key here is who we can find to solidfy the one batting spot (Nair, Sharma, someone else- i actually prefer the 5 bowler route). That and slip catching are the weaknesses for this team. 

 

We have never had such quality bowling for all facets of the game.

[wanted_desi]

We need someone who can Replace Ishant, and one Faster Bowling all rounder to get a series win in Australia/SA. I believe we can win in NZ and England.