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Is Kohli too poor to be captain

G_B_

By G_B_
in Cricket Talk

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Gollum Grand Master

Gollum

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

If you think Kohli's captaincy is as good or better than Dhoni in shorter formats from what we've seen so far - in Asia Cup (2014), IPL and the recent Ind-Eng series - sure go ahead.

We have never seen Kohli in RSA, Aus,NZ. But suffice to say Dhoni's shambolic captaincy in those tough tours won't be difficult to surpass for any captain. 

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Austin 3:!6 Grand Master

Austin 3:!6

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, CG said:

Do u not remember how dhoni failed to win series against aus in India in 2007.where even after tacking early wickets symmo kept on destroying us in India.Did Dhoni miss something.Lol it's always the bowlers.

You remember that but somehow forgot how he won an ODI tri series in Australia. Not sure why giving credit where its due is so tough for few.

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CG Contributor

CG

Posted
Posted
You remember that but somehow forgot how he won an ODI tri series in Australia. Not sure why giving credit where its due is so tough for few.

You have to see it in context saying Dhoni never lost after we took early wickets is damn wrong.India has strong soon bowling attack so it's natural to win when defending totals on Turning track.

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Ultimate_Game Rising Star

Ultimate_Game

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Gollum said:

His Dhoniconda methods(or whatever crap his followers call that :giggle:) never worked outside low, slow, 2 paced, spin assisting tracks. Hence our disgraceful record overseas under him with an ATG team at our disposal. His captaincy was passable in the 1st 3-4 years because of novelty factor+ATG team. But after that he has been utterly clueless. 

Kohli has flaws I agree but his ego will drive him to improve unlike the shameless Dhoni who never bothered about cricket outside the IPL. I hope Kohli makes all mistakes in IPL rather than in international matches.

Dhoni made the most of bowling resources at his disposal. Winning three ICC trophies with the sort of bowling attack he had was quite an achievement. Call him good or lucky or whatever but his methods worked and he had a knack of making the right calls. Be it his decision to go with Joginder over Harbhajan in 2007 T20 Cup, using Zaheer & Yuvi's overs like gold dust in 2011 WC or promoting himself up the order in 2011 WC final to face Murali or to bowl Ishant in that 16th over in CT 2013 final his decisions worked though at the time some of decisions looked strange.

 

If you think anyone would've won 3 ICC trophies instead of Dhoni, feel free to do so. As for ATG team, Ganguly had an ATG team at his disposal with fab 4, Kumble, Zaheer, Harbhajan etc. and he lost 9 consecutive finals!!! Yes 9! Winning tourneys isn't easy. We barely won much at global level despite having stellar batsmen. In our history we've won 5 ICC trophies and 3 of them came under Dhoni's captaincy so yeah he was doing something right. He didn't have a much better team than Ganguly but he used the available resources much better than Ganguly or any other Indian captain.

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Ultimate_Game Rising Star

Ultimate_Game

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, CG said:

 

 

 

 

You have to remember dhoni was not a bowler and it was not Turning track.Mumbai Indians threw there first 4 wickets and one was a tailender.No Team in world can chase 140 on Turning track.Captaincy is overrated.

 

 

If captaincy is so overrated how come we lost 9 consecutive finals under Ganguly? And how come 3 of our 5 ICC trophies were won under Dhoni? And if you think today's track was not on the slowish side helping spinners you either didn't watch the game or you don't know cricket. The ball was turning and hitting wasn't that easy when you were new at the crease.

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velu Mentor

velu

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

If captaincy is so overrated how come we lost 9 consecutive finals under Ganguly? And how come 3 of our 5 ICC trophies were won under Dhoni? And if you think today's track was not on the slowish side helping spinners you either didn't watch the game or you don't know cricket. The ball was turning and hitting wasn't that easy when you were new at the crease.

dont ask tough questions :giggle:

 

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sscomp32 Newbie

sscomp32

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Not true. Dhoni was a beast as a captain in shorter formats. Give him a sniff and he would finish you off. He wouldn't lose matches when he had an opponent at 10/4 on a turning track and 3 spinners at his disposal. You can take lot of shots against Dhoni but his shorter format captaincy will not be on the list.

You are talking to a troll who was banned for excessive trolling. Don't even bother. :rofl: 

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Gollum Grand Master

Gollum

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Dhoni made the most of bowling resources at his disposal. Winning three ICC trophies with the sort of bowling attack he had was quite an achievement. Call him good or lucky or whatever but his methods worked and he had a knack of making the right calls. Be it his decision to go with Joginder over Harbhajan in 2007 T20 Cup, using Zaheer & Yuvi's overs like gold dust in 2011 WC or promoting himself up the order in 2011 WC final to face Murali or to bowl Ishant in that 16th over in CT 2013 final his decisions worked though at the time some of decisions looked strange.

 

If you think anyone would've won 3 ICC trophies instead of Dhoni, feel free to do so. As for ATG team, Ganguly had an ATG team at his disposal with fab 4, Kumble, Zaheer, Harbhajan etc. and he lost 9 consecutive finals!!! Yes 9! Winning tourneys isn't easy. We barely won much at global level despite having stellar batsmen. In our history we've won 5 ICC trophies and 3 of them came under Dhoni's captaincy so yeah he was doing something right. He didn't have a much better team than Ganguly but he used the available resources much better than Ganguly or any other Indian captain.

1. Who was at fault for the limited bowling attack? Because as far as I remember he always discouraged our quicks and preferred line+length trundlers. Under him our bowlers hardly looked to bowl the opposition out, only contain runs. Do you think Shami/Umesh would have prospered under him? Kohli backs our bowlers to attack.

 

2. Joginder was a pure fluke decision, as I said before no captain has the midas touch that he had, fluke after fluke after fluke. 2011 WC we would have won anyways because our team was that good. In fact we should have been more convincing there considering our lineup. 2013 CT F, fluke bowling change. Kohli can't match Dhoni's luck or external factors. Woh sab Bhagwan kaa diya hua hai. 

 

3. Ganguly had a great team but not a complete team(very weak middle order). Anyways he had to contend with the GOAT Aussie team on most occasions and also Lanka was a terrific team back then. He lost many finals and that I will always hold against him. He was over rated in ODIs. What made him great was the change in mindset he brought in the team plus our overseas test exploits after the horrible 90s. He instilled pride in our team, backed quicks and was always aggressive. But he isn't a yard stick for Kohli. Kohli should look to surpass all previous Indian captains. 

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Gollum Grand Master

Gollum

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

If Kohli wins us 3 ICC trophies I would be over the moon.

He will win us ICC trophies, how many I don't know but at least one. Couple that with our ruthless test exploits and possibly good overseas tours....this will be an exciting 7 years for all of us. 

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