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Escalation at India-China border

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5 hours ago, veer said:

Aren't  they still in our territory? (not talking about Aksai Chin)

 

They are in grey area,we used to patrol till f8 Chinese stopped us from going there, our claimed line lies there and chinese patrolled till f4,they were not allowed to go to the west side of f4 ,

Technically f4 to f8 is neither ours nor theirs,but they have camped there and blocked us

Let me tell you about its history ,when we were busy in Kargill war in 99 our basic machinery was diverted in western border,China took advantage of it and built a road till f4,both countries troop used to patrol till f4 and f8( not beyond)untill April,

Technically mere patrolling doesn't make it your area this is true for both sides,maybe we should/are waiting for winters to arrive or there is something on offer for chenes here, remember f4-f8 is disputed

Edited by Suhaan

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

How many "km" is Finger 4 from the LAC?  How many Chinese permanent positions have been built up and entrenched there?  

 

Let's accept that the Chinese were able to grab a big chunk of strategic terrain on Pangong Lake.  And the Indian army did f.all about it over the last couple of years and months.  Now as usual, they are waking up months too late, and trying to prevent more of the same.  All we can do is hope they do a better job and prevent more Chinese Fingers pressing into India.

If what you are saying is true that Chinese encroached always. Means after 75 this is first blood bath happened. It meant that question should be then asked to cong also coz we never heard of any encroachment during their time and we should appreciate the gov now that may be they were late in action but they have shown spine unlike cong nincompoop under which not even a single skirmish has been reported and not sure how much land they have silently surrendered to Chinese and Porks 

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1 hour ago, raki05 said:

we should appreciate the gov now that may be they were late in action but they have shown spine unlike cong nincompoop

banjo this tribal foolish mentality of cong vs bjp is why this country will never progress.  I don't give AF about which set of political thieves are in power or in opposition, our country INDIA, and its army, was caught sleeping while a hostile neighbor sent its army to occupy tactically strategic terrain at Pangong Tso.  

 

Accountability and responsibility are dodged in the name of politics.  By all sides.  And then the army leadership who failed at their job escape by blaming the politicians.  Its a bloody sh.itshow.

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6 hours ago, sandeep said:

banjo this tribal foolish mentality of cong vs bjp is why this country will never progress.  I don't give AF about which set of political thieves are in power or in opposition, our country INDIA, and its army, was caught sleeping while a hostile neighbor sent its army to occupy tactically strategic terrain at Pangong Tso.  

 

Accountability and responsibility are dodged in the name of politics.  By all sides.  And then the army leadership who failed at their job escape by blaming the politicians.  Its a bloody sh.itshow.

Do you have proven evidence what has happened or its just one of your many twitter powered blaberring since Shaheen Bagh, coz from Galwan valley many liberal narrative has been shifted to Panging Teo. BTW have you heard gov response they said india has not lost a single post and Chinese has been tought a lesson. So until you have more trustworthy source than gov and army stop exaggeration based on Twitter and dimmi media sources 

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14 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Truth is there is the indian lac and the chinese lac. In between was a no mans land where both sides patrolled.  The chinese are now in parts of the no mans land directly overlooking our positions. This is different from Chinese in indian territory.

Just to clarify - 20 of our soldiers have been killed for stepping into this grey area. There is also some casualty on the Chinese side which they have not disclosed. If this occupying continues won't some of the grey area be claimed as Chinese? Also are any of our troops currently in the grey area? Please correct me if wrong.

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10 hours ago, raki05 said:

If what you are saying is true that Chinese encroached always. Means after 75 this is first blood bath happened. It meant that question should be then asked to cong also coz we never heard of any encroachment during their time and we should appreciate the gov now that may be they were late in action but they have shown spine unlike cong nincompoop under which not even a single skirmish has been reported and not sure how much land they have silently surrendered to Chinese and Porks 

Long back defence minister AK Antony made statement in parliament that Chinese have encroached. He also said, we can’t do anything as we haven’t got any infrastructure in border area and we are so far behind that nothing can be done now.
At the time he made excuse that its not his fault but India’s fault for not developing border infra

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16 hours ago, Deucalion said:

so did india take revenge of thre 20 soldiers yet ?
also, why the indian media and forums are asking govt to not go to war with china ? instead only relying on banning the products ?
PLA just directly killed 20 indian troops and you dont want revenge ?

but if some 40 soldiers gt killed in pulwama by a local hands, indian govt want revenge from pakistan ?

 

hypocrisy much.
 

the reason is simple, China is out of your league. 

whether you like it or not.

Amreeka did drone strike on your territory and killed Osama, you didn't want revenge then.

 

But when India did Balakot to eliminate terrorists you wanted revenge.

 

Hypocrisy much?

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17 hours ago, Deucalion said:

so did india take revenge of thre 20 soldiers yet ?
also, why the indian media and forums are asking govt to not go to war with china ? instead only relying on banning the products ?
PLA just directly killed 20 indian troops and you dont want revenge ?

but if some 40 soldiers gt killed in pulwama by a local hands, indian govt want revenge from pakistan ?

 

hypocrisy much.
 

the reason is simple, China is out of your league. 

whether you like it or not.

 

It was expected for padosis to show up here, doing the bidding for the chinese bandwagon. The reason is simple, your nation is a giant whorehouse who needs to be paid for getting f**ked from one master or the other, be it USA, Saudi or China, the latter being the flavor these days. 

 

freemirpur hashtag on Twitter

 

 

In case you forgot your league:

 

Vijay Diwas: On this day in 1971, 93,000 Pak troops surrendered to ...

Edited by Clarke

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Its all good to bash Pakistan but if u keep your heads in sand and keep believing in this Maha liar, u will soon catch up with your neighbors. Evidence is all in front of your eyes but if u still think not a single inch of Indian territory is captured than its only Indians loss. 

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6 hours ago, raki05 said:

Do you have proven evidence what has happened or its just one of your many twitter powered blaberring since Shaheen Bagh, coz from Galwan valley many liberal narrative has been shifted to Panging Teo. BTW have you heard gov response they said india has not lost a single post and Chinese has been tought a lesson. So until you have more trustworthy source than gov and army stop exaggeration based on Twitter and dimmi media sources 

Keep playing cong vs bjp, liberal, 'anti-national' and the rest of the foolishness.  

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1 hour ago, sandeep said:

Keep playing cong vs bjp, liberal, 'anti-national' and the rest of the foolishness.  

Well would like to know clearly ....did we loose any territory in current dispute in Galwan valley or was the hostility was limited to LAC. Let me know what your sources said. 

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10 hours ago, Black Zero said:

Its all good to bash Pakistan but if u keep your heads in sand and keep believing in this Maha liar, u will soon catch up with your neighbors. Evidence is all in front of your eyes but if u still think not a single inch of Indian territory is captured than its only Indians loss. 

How do you claim to know more? Care showing evidence? Or is it only hatred?

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On 6/19/2020 at 4:37 PM, sandeep said:

banjo this tribal foolish mentality of cong vs bjp is why this country will never progress.  I don't give AF about which set of political thieves are in power or in opposition, our country INDIA, and its army, was caught sleeping while a hostile neighbor sent its army to occupy tactically strategic terrain at Pangong Tso.  

 

Accountability and responsibility are dodged in the name of politics.  By all sides.  And then the army leadership who failed at their job escape by blaming the politicians.  Its a bloody sh.itshow.

Agreed.. but picture abhi baaki he mere dost.. don't underestimate Modi..

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27 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Kuch bhi nahi hoga. 

 

This may close off soon. 

 

China occupied some territory and will keep it. Thats pretty much it. 

Do you want to bet? If they have captured anything then we will get it back... Modi isn't built that way...

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On 6/18/2020 at 8:46 AM, G_B_ said:

see whichever way you look at it, 70 billion is no where near any sort of dependency to claim that everything you own is chinese. You dont need to be an economist for that. Its just basic common sense.

 

Similarly, instead of having high end products from China we can import them from South Korea and Japan. Hyundai for example has manufacturing operations in India for its cars and a vast majority of its parts (and steel etc) some from South Korea. 

 

The assumption here is that what we cant get from china we will make ourselves. The might be an ultimate aim, but there are other countries in the world. Just saying...

 

 

 

 

Nobody's arguing this point. But it hasn't happened yet. How many companies from 'other countries' have re-located to india? And how many indian companies make the same products?

 

Here are the facts, as i saw them on one of your own television channels (mirror now):

 

60% of india's imports last year were from china.

Chinese companies own:

73% of india's smartphone market

45% of india's smart TV market

25% of india's telecom equipment market

 

In addition to massive investments in many of your 'unicorns'. Now what?

 

Please tell how you plan on changing this? Especially as the country's appetite for discretionary goods is forecast to rise massively over the next 10 years.

 

Here's the reality: you'll learn to live with Chinese products, because they're better (and cheaper) than the alternatives. 

Edited by Manny_Pacquiao

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18 hours ago, Black Zero said:

Its all good to bash Pakistan but if u keep your heads in sand and keep believing in this Maha liar, u will soon catch up with your neighbors. Evidence is all in front of your eyes but if u still think not a single inch of Indian territory is captured than its only Indians loss. 

Not bash, remind the internet warriors like you when they come waving papa China's flag acting tough and pretending to be knowledgeable experts while all you lot do is just blabber the anti-India opinion in every aspect.  

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On 6/19/2020 at 2:43 PM, Norman said:

Nah bhai. Saw with my own eyes and couldn't stop laughing for a minute. 

 

There was a show on some other channel (i think times now or India today) bashing China left and right saying economic boycott , demolition of CCP whatnot and when the show ended they were like - 

 

"This show was brought to you by Oppo camera and music ".

 

:facepalm:

 

 

Time to boycott IPL!!!!!!!!!!!111

 


 

Quote

 

"When you talk emotionally, you tend to leave the rationale behind. We have to understand the difference between supporting a Chinese company for a Chinese cause or taking help from Chinese company to support India's cause," Dhumal told PTI.

 

"When we are allowing Chinese companies to sell their products in India, whatever money they are taking from Indian consumer, they are paying part of it to the BCCI (as brand promotion) and the board is paying 42 per cent tax on that money to the Indian government. So, that is supporting India's cause and not China's," he argued.

 

Oppo, a mobile phone brand like Vivo, was sponsoring the Indian cricket team until September last year when Bengaluru-based educational technology Byju's start-up replaced the Chinese company.

 

Dhumal said he is all for reducing dependence on Chinese products but as long as its companies are allowed to do business in India, there is no harm in them sponsoring an Indian brand like the IPL.

 

"If they are not supporting the IPL, they are likely to take that money back to China. If that money is retained here, we should be happy about it. We are supporting our government with that money (by paying taxes on it).

 

"If that Chinese money is coming to support Indian cricket, we should be okay with it. I am all for banning Chinese products as an individual, we are there to support our government but by getting sponsorship from Chinese company, we are helping India's cause.

"We can get sponsorship money from non-Chinese companies also including Indian firms. We can support our players any way but the idea is when they are allowed to sell their products here, it is better that part of money comes back to the Indian economy.

"The BCCI is not giving money to the Chinese, it is attracting on the contrary. We should make decision based on rationale rather than emotion," he added. 

https://www.deccanherald.com/cricket/ipl/chinese-sponsorship-in-ipl-helping-indian-economy-not-other-way-round-dhumal-851056.html

 

 

On a serious note, the sheer stupidity of the indian public never ceases to amaze me. Forget everything, invest in EDUCATION.

 

Since you're the wannabe economist here, what % of india's GDP is spent on education? @G_B_

Edited by Manny_Pacquiao

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20 hours ago, Black Zero said:

Its all good to bash Pakistan but if u keep your heads in sand and keep believing in this Maha liar, u will soon catch up with your neighbors. Evidence is all in front of your eyes but if u still think not a single inch of Indian territory is captured than its only Indians loss. 

Ummm.. captured Indian territory in 62.. then yes. .that's the truth.. if you saying they captured territory during last week conflict then check your sources.. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Clarke said:

Not bash, remind the internet warriors like you when they come waving papa China's flag acting tough and pretending to be knowledgeable experts while all you lot do is just blabber the anti-India opinion in every aspect.  

so you dont believe any news which is published? you dont believe all the satellite photos? heck China has already claimed Galwan valley and i dont think Modi is going to stop them.

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9 hours ago, veer said:

Agreed.. but picture abhi baaki he mere dost.. don't underestimate Modi..

Its not about Modi - its about what the IA should have been doing, and can do now.  

 

Once your enemy grabs the heights, and you don't want a full-fledged war, the options are very limited.  

 

The only 'reasonable' option that I can see, is for India to grab territory elsewhere.  Short of that, all we can do is 'protest' and call for withdrawal.  

 

Taking a step back from this, it is hard to deny that the Indian army has had multiple failures - intel failure, border observation failure, the whole 9.  

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18 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

so you dont believe any news which is published? you dont believe all the satellite photos? heck China has already claimed Galwan valley and i dont think Modi is going to stop them.

Not talking about the dispute when it comes to trolls, they're just here to poke and not discuss anything genuinely.

 

There's no doubt we have a problem at the border. We'll have to see how this pans out in the coming months & years.

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45 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

so you dont believe any news which is published? you dont believe all the satellite photos? heck China has already claimed Galwan valley and i dont think Modi is going to stop them.

Galwan river is 80 kms long...starts in aksai chin and flows mostly through there. If I am not wrong, the present contention is PP14 and the surrounding area in Galwan valley.

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2 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Yes, i can bet on that. 

 

And the economic ban of china is not going to work. 

No, What you see is why RSS is hated by left right and centre. Once someone has been through RSS academy, its not possible to corrupt him. They are tenacious smart educated intelligent nationalist and will die for nation if need be. 
Modi will only giveup if. He tealises he cant do anything. But in reality, Modi wanted a reason to justify his economic and border policies and undo Congress treaties. China has provided enough ammunition to him.

So, I am hopeful that India will come out stronger from this crisis

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15 minutes ago, mishra said:

No, What you see is why RSS is hated by left right and centre. Once someone has been through RSS academy, its not possible to corrupt him. They are tenacious smart educated intelligent nationalist and will die for nation if need be. 
Modi will only giveup if. He tealises he cant do anything. But in reality, Modi wanted a reason to justify his economic and border policies and undo Congress treaties. China has provided enough ammunition to him.

So, I am hopeful that India will come out stronger from this crisis

Even trump couldn't pull it off. 

 

China has huge influence in our day to day life as well. It is impossible to eradicate or substitute china. 

 

Those guys are as efficient as robots if not better. 

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1 minute ago, Autonomous said:

Even trump couldn't pull it off. 

 

China has huge influence in our day to day life as well. It is impossible to eradicate or substitute china. 

 

Those guys are as efficient as robots if not better. 

I understand your pov about getting China out of your home. However, Xi will find that Modi is not pushover. Even Russian media too have reported that China has occupied India territory. If it comes to occupy and keep a region, India has advantage for first time. Let winter come. And Xi knows that if this crisis continues till winter, he will have to militarily take Chinese land back nxt summer

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39 minutes ago, mishra said:

I understand your pov about getting China out of your home. However, Xi will find that Modi is not pushover. Even Russian media too have reported that China has occupied India territory. If it comes to occupy and keep a region, India has advantage for first time. Let winter come. And Xi knows that if this crisis continues till winter, he will have to militarily take Chinese land back nxt summer

I don't think Modi will do anything, practically speaking, retailiation is not the option available to him. 

 

You can bookmark this post. 

 

Probably with a little more of these fights and then there will be call for "peace". China will keep territory aur sab kuch baaton main "gol" hojaega. 

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10 hours ago, Autonomous said:

I don't think Modi will do anything, practically speaking, retailiation is not the option available to him. 

 

You can bookmark this post. 

 

Probably with a little more of these fights and then there will be call for "peace". China will keep territory aur sab kuch baaton main "gol" hojaega. 

I think India China relationship is not same as India Pakistan. Chinese are smart people. Choice is theirs, If China wants to loose whole India for few sq kms of land. 

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12 hours ago, Autonomous said:

I don't think Modi will do anything, practically speaking, retailiation is not the option available to him. 

 

You can bookmark this post. 

 

Probably with a little more of these fights and then there will be call for "peace". China will keep territory aur sab kuch baaton main "gol" hojaega. 

Thank you for being reasonable in your opinion. There is a reasonable probability of what you say is true. 

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19 hours ago, sandeep said:

Looks like your rear end is still burning.  Keep burning, your sad attempts at being provocative aren't going to work.

"You have to understand the terrain!!"......says an American desi software engineer living in New jersey...:hysterical::hysterical:

 

Come on, you have to be dead NOT to see the humor in this. If somebody spoke to me like this in real life, i would think they're slightly insane. THAT is provocative.

 

Only on anonymous internet forums, can people pretend to be experts on subjects they have zero knowledge of.

 

At least you stopped giving medical advice...

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20 hours ago, cowboysfan said:

so you dont believe any news which is published? you dont believe all the satellite photos? heck China has already claimed Galwan valley and i dont think Modi is going to stop them.

China claims territory in a hundred different places--> https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/territorial-disputes  What they claim is irrelevant.

 

There's very little to discuss here, if we're being honest. I know that doesn't sound 'interesting' to the TV watching aam junta and wannabe experts, but its true.

 

 

The only thing i learned from this thread is that:

 

Quote

 

India is the next target of Chinese misinformation machinery, and we are already falling prey

Online psychological operations target internet users with selective massaging which include altered facts and disinformation which then influences the targeted users' emotions and objective reasoning

 

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/india-next-target-of-chinese-misinformation-machinery-and-we-are-already-falling-prey-5435641.html

 

 

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5 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

"You have to understand the terrain!!"......says an American desi software engineer living in New jersey...:hysterical::hysterical:

 

Come on, you have to be dead NOT to see the humor in this. If somebody spoke to me like this in real life, i would think they're slightly insane. THAT is provocative.

 

Only on anonymous internet forums, can people pretend to be experts on subjects they have zero knowledge of.

 

At least you stopped giving medical advice...

Good try.  2/10.  And that's being charitable.  Work on it a bit, and come back again.  Maybe ask your Delhi family connections for a 'comedy' certificate  to cheer yourself up.  You're really funny, its just that others don't get it, khush?

Edited by sandeep

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3 hours ago, velu said:

kind of money and forex reserves china has got , they can play friendly with india and invest in strategic  assets and buy us indirectly ..

if USA vs china trade war gets serious , china will try to offload its US treasury bonds 

We can not rely on US or anyone to fight our battle. We also can not have a common border patrolling area with China. Issue needs to be resolved and China can not redraw border at its own convenience and strategic needs.

 

What India needs to do is ensure that its crystal clear to Chinese that even if bloodshed is more on our side, there will be Chinese lives lost too, Crossing into disputed zone is not walk in Park, And any muscular adventure will mean Business deals will be quashed.

 

Just Six months back, Indian government couldnt even think of daring to speak against Huawei built 5G infrastructure and but it all changed within a matter of hours as now Indian Government wants to ensure that all Chinese companies be out in some sectors.

 

A pragmatic Chinese knows that its natural that  a lion can hunt elephant but it chooses safer option of  hunting  smaller animals to feed itself. There is plenty of opportunity for China in various other parts of world , that includes Pakistan. As one Chinese editorial said, China don't need war or bloodshed to get things done when they can achieve better results by doing deals.

 

PS: WSJ reported quite plausible scenario, it also mentioned 20 Indian and 12 Chinese soldiers wre killed. It may look little but If China is a advance nation then it cant let its army personnel die in that 5:3 ratio.

Edited by mishra

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10 minutes ago, mishra said:

We can not rely on US or anyone to fight our battle. We also can not have a common border patrolling area with China. Issue needs to be resolved and China can not redraw border at its own convenience and strategic needs.

 

What India needs to do is ensure that its crystal clear to Chinese that even if bloodshed is more on our side, there will be Chinese lives lost too, Crossing into disputed zone is not walk in Park, And any muscular adventure will mean Business deals will be quashed.

 

Just Six months back, Indian government couldnt even think of daring to speak against Huawei built 5G infrastructure and but it all changed within a matter of hours as now Indian Government wants to ensure that all Chinese companies be out in some sectors.

 

A pragmatic Chinese knows that its natural that  a lion can hunt elephant but it chooses safer option of  hunting  smaller animals to feed itself. There is plenty of opportunity for China in various other parts of world , that includes Pakistan. As one Chinese editorial said, China don't need war or bloodshed to get things done when they can achieve better results by doing deals.

 

PS: WSJ reported quite plausible scenario, it also mentioned 20 Indian and 12 Chinese soldiers wre killed. It may look little but If China is a advance nation then it cant let its army personnel die in that 5:3 ratio.

China is already in big time here, they have constructed motorways, tunnels and highways in north

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14 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

China is already in big time here, they have constructed motorways, tunnels and highways in north

Its agreed that Soldiers will retreating. Australian agency did report three pics, The location before the fight, the location buildup to fight, and location after fight,  along  possible infra which Col Bau's team brought down.

Indian team of bureaucrats, diplomats and politicians aren't as foolish as Rahul Gandhi points. Bhai, this is what I meant to say, Unlike Pakistan, Chinese are not fighting for land or Jihad. Their objectie is to gain economic and military strength, without shedding any blood.

 

The idea that India has tore down no weapon policy, means their is possibility of loss of lots of life when their soldiers cross LAC and walk into disputed zone. India China border is massive. Despite all superiority,(1962) we gained in Arunanchal and when they gained in Laddakh.

Edited by mishra

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10 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

China is already in big time here, they have constructed motorways, tunnels and highways in north

How do you feel about that honestly ? Or what does general public in Pakistan feel about China building infra on their land ? 

 

Do they think it's all because of "dosti yaari" or they know what the Chinese are actually upto ?

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Norman said:

How do you feel about that honestly ? Or what does general public in Pakistan feel about China building infra on their land ? 

 

Do they think it's all because of "dosti yaari" or they know what the Chinese are actually upto ?

 

 

They are indebted to Chinese for life of nation. Literally :phehe:

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35 minutes ago, Norman said:

How do you feel about that honestly ? Or what does general public in Pakistan feel about China building infra on their land ? 

 

Do they think it's all because of "dosti yaari" or they know what the Chinese are actually upto ?

 

 

China will not takeover pakistan. 

 

220m with a large amount of rogue people are too much to add for china's troubles. 

 

They will take away the business. They will buy agricultural produce of punjab and make use of resources with preferred business. 

 

Its not dosti yaari, just benefit for benefit. 

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BC , chal kya raha hai....koi bol rha hai territory kabja kar liya hai, koi bol raha hai lac area occupy kiya hai, cong bol rahi hai 3500 km boundary occupy kar liya hai, modi bol raha hai kuch nahi hua hai.  Abey, kabja kiya hai ya nahi kiya hai koi bateyga ?????

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13 minutes ago, Norman said:

But for what exactly ? For helping them in securing nukes ? 

 

 

Project was estimated 43 Billion. Now they have spent 89 billion. What happened with Hambantota, Sri Lanka, Sooner or later same will happen with CPEC infra. It will result in unfretterd Chinese Acces to infra it built in Pakistan (both Land and sea) which it will use as its trade/military route.

 

Its like say "you" are rich person who live In US and regularly visit a friend say "me", for couple of week a year and stay at my place and drive around the city in my budget Ambassador.

 

One day, you offer to sell me one of your Ferrari at discounted price, I remortgage my Delhi flat and give you a deal that you can live at my place whenever you come to Delhi and drive the ferrari on your stay and buy the ferrari. Now I cant afford to even fuel that ferrari. :phehe: Thats called Chinese BRI deal

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