Defeating Australia in a test match played on a fast, bouncy track -- We are ready to win multiple test series outside Asia now

[Rightarmfast]

This team has it to win abroad. Its easily a deserving Test No1 team. I feel if the batters can hold on to their nerves when travelling abroad, we can win. 

We have class fast bowlers, I am worried about spinners. Somehow, not very confident of Ashwin. But Jadeja and the new guy will do good abroad. We also have a healthy mix of good allrounders in the team too. So I agree with the OP and I think its time we start travelling.

[express bowling]

Obviously, there are some areas which need further work

 

1) Close-in catching and creating specialists for specific catching positions.  Hiring a new fielding coach.

 

2) Getting a new pacer like Aniket C ready. We missed a trick by not playing him in the test against Bangladesh.  

He is tall, left-handed, has pace, can hit the deck hard and can swing the ball too.  Has good FC experience too and is not a rookie pacer.

 

3)  Back-up opener.  Both Vijay and Rahul are injury-prone and Mukund did not look convincing.  Patel did a decent job as a back-up opener and is good against pace and bounce.  Can he be kept as a back-up opener  to cover for injuries with Saha still keeping  ?

[King Tendulkar]

One missing thing is selection for A teams and other such games . Not packing teams with young fast guys who we all talk about .  Instead weird trundler picks still appear 

[putrevus]

We need to see fast bowlers take 5fers for that catching has to improve.Umesh and Shami deserved more wickets if not for horrible catching they would have ended up with more wickets.

 

No this home season is not an indication on how we will do overseas at all.

[MCcricket]

Things are looking bright n what has n will make a diff touring abroad n biggest is

Captaincy, Dhoni n loosing ,learning mentality is gone

KYadav is one bowler who can succeeded anywhere

Yadav, Shami, Ishant, Pandya, Bhuvi, Aniket, Sangwan, Aaron enough talent and backup in pace dept with all pacers capable of bowling in 140s

Batting unit who can gust it out n have done well abroad n have the skills

Saha a versatile keeper n a batsmen  who will score runs away

Change in mindset and confidence with players being exposed thru iPL n A tours to away conditions n opposition , thought process

Most importantly the will n ambition to be the best n having the tools to be the best.

[rkt.india]

10 minutes ago, putrevus said:

We need to see fast bowlers take 5fers for that catching has to improve.Umesh and Shami deserved more wickets if not for horrible catching they would have ended up with more wickets.

 

No this home season is not an indication on how we will do overseas at all.

Exactly, if you exclude Zak, most of our good to great fast bowlers, Kapil, Srinath, Umesh, Shami, they have done better at home than overseas. Zak was the opposite. He did better overseas than at home.

[BCCI]

Bowling worries notwithstanding,even batting is not consistent and is prone to collapses, dont think lower order will come to rescue overseas. 

[Gollum]

We will do well in RSA, NZ and England. But in Australia a massacre awaits.

[express bowling]

13 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Exactly, if you exclude Zak, most of our good to great fast bowlers, Kapil, Srinath, Umesh, Shami, they have done better at home than overseas. Zak was the opposite. He did better overseas than at home.

 

One problem that Indian fast bowlers of the past faced,  while bowling on bouncy tracks, is adjusting their lengths on those tracks. They were somehow unable to do that and did not perform well.

 

What I liked about Umesh's bowling yesterday and Shami and Ishant's bowling  in the WI, especially in the Antigua test,   was that they adjusted their lengths excellently on the more bouncy pitches. The channel deliveries were looking effective and even the bouncers were.  Bhuvi adjusts his lengths well too.

 

This is a distinct improvement from the pacers of the past and even the approach of the same pacers in the past.

 

Getting the length right is half the battle won for away tours.

Edited March 28, 2017 by express bowling

[sm332]

Premature .... can you see 4/5 quicks who can help us get 14-15 off 20 wickets abroad? I sure as hell cant - and eventually the batting will have a day day or two and poof you are toast. 

 

I think we will do fine in SL barring a major brainfade a al Galle - that batting order is unbelievably weak. 

 

SA end of year will be challenging: Shami, Yadav, Bhuvi, Ishant doesnt strike fear in anyone's heart but I expect a closely contested series.

[putrevus]

18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Exactly, if you exclude Zak, most of our good to great fast bowlers, Kapil, Srinath, Umesh, Shami, they have done better at home than overseas. Zak was the opposite. He did better overseas than at home.

There is reason why India fast bowlers do well at home because they have spinners supporting them.Spinners hold one end up even if they are not taking wickets and that allows fast bowlers to rotate and rest.

 

When you travel these fast bowlers have to do both roles holding and taking wickets.They simply run of gas and start experimenting too much trying to take wicket every ball and lose the plot completely.

 

Kapil used to bowl 8 over  opening spells and take couple of wickets but captain would call him back to do containing job as they were leaking runs from both ends.You just cannot be strike bowler and holding bowl at the same time it wears your out.

 

Indian fast bowlers are not bowlers who have ability to run thru sides, in my view they need to play both Ashwin and Jadeja everywhere till we find a reliable all rounder and ask them to do the holding job while taking few wickets.

Edited March 28, 2017 by putrevus

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

There is reason why India fast bowlers do well at home because they have spinners supporting them.Spinners hold one end up even if they are not taking wickets and that allows fast bowlers to rotate and rest.

 

When you travel these fast bowlers have to do both roles holding and taking wickets.They simply run of gas and start experimenting too much trying to take wicket every ball and lose the plot completely.

 

Kapil used to bowl 8 over  opening spells and take couple of wickets but captain would call him back to do containing job as they were leaking runs from both ends.You just cannot be strike bowler and holding bowl at the same time it wears your out.

 

Indian fast bowlers are not bowlers who have ability to run thru sides, in my view they need to play both Ashwin and Jadeja everywhere till we find a reliable all rounder and ask them to do the holding job while taking few wickets.

also, there is no reverse swing overseas.

[rkt.india]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

One problem that Indian fast bowlers of the past faced,  while bowling on bouncy tracks, is adjusting their lengths on those tracks. They were somehow unable to do that and did not perform well.

 

What I liked about Umesh's bowling yesterday and Shami and Ishant's bowling  in the WI, especially in the Antigua test,   was that they adjusted their lengths excellently on the more bouncy pitches. The channel deliveries were looking effective and even the bouncers were.  Bhuvi adjusts his lengths well too.

 

This is a distinct improvement from the pacers of the past and even the approach of the same pacers in the past.

 

Getting the length right is half the battle won for away tours.

I dont think length has anything to do with their problems. Good Length is good length irrespective of the country. You hit that 6-8 meter mark and you will be successful everywhere. This talk about different length in different countries is highly overrated. What they lacked is stamina to bowl a lot of overs with intensity and consistency without a lot of help from spinners. They bowled a lot of boundary balls, become wayward as the work load increased and lack of reverse in SA, England, NZ, Auz didnt help too.

[kubrickian]

24 minutes ago, putrevus said:

There is reason why India fast bowlers do well at home because they have spinners supporting them.Spinners hold one end up even if they are not taking wickets and that allows fast bowlers to rotate and rest.

 

When you travel these fast bowlers have to do both roles holding and taking wickets.They simply run of gas and start experimenting too much trying to take wicket every ball and lose the plot completely.

 

Kapil used to bowl 8 over  opening spells and take couple of wickets but captain would call him back to do containing job as they were leaking runs from both ends.You just cannot be strike bowler and holding bowl at the same time it wears your out.

 

Indian fast bowlers are not bowlers who have ability to run thru sides, in my view they need to play both Ashwin and Jadeja everywhere till we find a reliable all rounder and ask them to do the holding job while taking few wickets.

Indian fast bowlers in the past are not a good benchmark though. We had guys like Venky Prasad, D Ganesh, Kuruvilla, Mambrey etc. who barely used to clock 120s in tests and used to lose steam in second spell itself. Compare that with someone like Umesh who can bowl 140+ in every spell throughout the day and he can do that for a whole series and a whole season without breaking down. 

 

Our fast bowling has shown steady improvement since emergence of Zaheer Khan and other guys like Sreesanth, RP Singh, Irfan, Ishant who did well in different tours. Even Nehra is now looking more fit and agile compared to when he was young. So fitness levels have improved, probably because of players following a better fitness regime and diet. Now next step should be more bowlers in the mold of Umesh who could be effective for longer periods and not lose steam or effectiveness in successive spells or innings.

Edited March 28, 2017 by kubrickian

[putrevus]

2 minutes ago, kubrickian said:

Indian fast bowlers in the past are not a good benchmark though. We had guys like Venky Prasad, D Ganesh, Kuruvilla, Mambrey etc. who barely used to clock 120s and used to lose steam in second spell itself. Compare that with someone like Umesh who can bowl 140+ in every spell throughout the day and he can do that for a whole series and a whole season without breaking down. 

 

Our fast bowling has shown steady improvement since emergence of Zaheer Khan and other guys like Sreesanth, RP Singh, Irfan, Ishant capable of doing well in different tours. Even Nehra is now looking more fit and agile compared to when he was young. So fitness levels have improved. Now next step should be more bowlers in the mold of Umesh who could be effective over an entire season.

Fitness is fine but ability to take 5fers or 10 wickets in match is also important. Do you think if we get wickets like Edgbaston where Broad took 8/15 or recent series in Australia where SA pacers bowled very well , Indian fast bowlers could do the same? I do no think they would have done same job even on helpful pitches then how will they do better on pitches which are not helpful.

 

It will be a process which should begin next home season where India has to play three fast bowlers every match and then let them develop into main wicket takers but it is fraught with so much risk.Or let Ashwin and Jadeja become that sixth batsman and allrounder role then play three fast bowlers.Both options are risky but in order to win they need to take some risk.

 

Sreesanth and RP Singh flamed out so fast and Zak never had fitness to impact whole series, if we want to remove Perth 2008 or Joburg 2006 or Lords 2014 from Indian cricket vocabulary and replace them with series wins they need to change the way they have approached overseas tours. 

 

 

[kubrickian]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Fitness is fine but ability to take 5fers or 10 wickets in match is also important. Do you think if we get wickets like Edgbaston where Broad took 8/15 or recent series in Australia where SA pacers bowled very well , Indian fast bowlers could do the same? I do no think they would have done same job even on helpful pitches then how will they do better on pitches which are not helpful.

 

It will be a process which should begin next home season where India has to play three fast bowlers every match and then let them develop into main wicket takers but it is fraught with so much risk.Or let Ashwin and Jadeja become that sixth batsman and allrounder role then play three fast bowlers.Both options are risky but in order to win they need to take some risk.

 

Sreesanth and RP Singh flamed out so fast and Zak never had fitness to impact whole series, if we want to remove Perth 2008 or Joburg 2006 or Lords 2014 from Indian cricket vocabulary and replace them with series wins they need to change the way they have approached overseas tours. 

 

 

Fast bowlers who can be consistent over successive spells can take 5fers or 10 wickets in a match. Our problem in the past has been inconsistency. A bowler would typically do well in one spell and wont maintain that consistency in other spells or next innings. 3 fast bowlers who are good will do the job of taking 20 wickets in Aus or SA. 

 

Preparing a pitch like Dharamsala at home and playing 3 fast bowlers could help to develop that but it could also backfire big time. But its worth preparing those type of pitches against sides like SL, BD, WI and then progress from there.

Edited March 28, 2017 by kubrickian

[rkt.india]

33 minutes ago, putrevus said:

 

Indian fast bowlers are not bowlers who have ability to run thru sides, in my view they need to play both Ashwin and Jadeja everywhere till we find a reliable all rounder and ask them to do the holding job while taking few wickets.

No, that is poor approach. Our pacers struggle abroad because they do not get support. They do well in patches but lack of support from spinners hurt them. NZ, SA, England spinners did nothing. They were just nonexistent in those places. No impact. So, it is important that we play an extra seamer who could support other seamers. Spinners are not going make much of an impact in those places. It is your fast bowlers who will have to deliver if you want a test or series win. Look at what England and Aus did. Their strength is fast bowling but they played two spinners every game. England won the the series in 2012. Aus beaten us in the first test and their spinners kept pushing us back throughout the series. We need to respect the conditions and play bowlers according to that. You wont play 2 spinners at Perth, Gaba, Wanderes, Headingly and expect a win. In all those tours we missed a 4th seamer to share work load of 3 main seamers as our seamers have not been used to that kind of work load.

[putrevus]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

No, that is poor approach. Our pacers struggle abroad because they do not get support. They do well in patches but lack of support from spinners hurt them. NZ, SA, England spinners did nothing. They were just nonexistent in those places. No impact. So, it is important that we play an extra seamer who could support other seamers. Spinners are not going make much of an impact in those places. It is your fast bowlers who will have to deliver if you want a test or series win. Look at what England and Aus did. Their strength is fast bowling but they played two spinners every game. England won the the series in 2012. Aus beaten us in the first test and their spinners kept pushing us back throughout the series. We need to respect the conditions and play bowlers according to that. You wont play 2 spinners at Perth, Gaba, Wanderes, Headingly and expect a win. In all those tours we missed a 4th seamer to share work load of 3 main seamers as our seamers have not been used to that kind of work load.

I know it is poor one but it is lot better than playing Stuart Binnys of the world who bring nothing to table.

[rkt.india]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I know it is poor one but it is lot better than playing Stuart Binnys of the world who bring nothing to table.

who is saying play stuart binny

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

who is saying play stuart binny

I never said you did, but he was the one who played last time they played an allrounder.Aussies also kept playing Mitchel Marsh and England keep playing their dummy all rounders in Asia and have never won.

 

Unless they find a real good all rounder they need to play both the spinners and 3 fast bowlers.