What should be our bowling attack for June 4th against Pakistan ?

[Ultimate_Game]

45 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

If we see ODIs in England nowadays....there are lots of 320+ scores.

 

In such a scenario, a big hitting No.7 is needed and will add much more value to the team compared to Ashwin.

 

Jadhav and UV can always bowl 3 or 4 overs.

IMO it comes down to whether you want to chase 320 with Pandya or chase 280 without Pandya. I would go with the latter but yeah against Pakistan we can go with Pandya and against Saffers we can get Ashwin in the team.

[Sandeep99]

Ashwin >>> Pandya

[express bowling]

38 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

IMO it comes down to whether you want to chase 320 with Pandya or chase 280 without Pandya. I would go with the latter but yeah against Pakistan we can go with Pandya and against Saffers we can get Ashwin in the team.

Ashwin has a career ER of 4.9

 

Pandya has career ER of 5.8

 

It means that we can expect around 10 runs more....and not a difference of 40.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

On pattas,you need 5 bowlers even more,specially when there is no backup

 

a bowler picking 1-2 with low ER will be more valuable than someone scoring 20-40 lower down but leaking runs with ball

 

Ashwin is experienced too and has done well in ICC CT 2013

India has played Pandya in the last 2 ODI series which were played mostly on pattas.

 

His batting was needed for us to win in half the matches of those 2 series.

 

And he bowled well too.

[Ultimate_Game]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Ashwin has a career ER of 4.9

 

Pandya has career ER of 5.8

 

It means that we can expect around 10 runs more....and not a difference of 40.

It's not that simple. If a bowler releases pressure it affects the others too and diminishes their chances of picking up wkts and restricting teams to a lower total. With Pandya leaking runs in the middle overs, batsmen will have no pressure on them to take risks and get out against the other bowlers like Jaddu. They can milk others, target Pandya and with wkts in hand go for broke at the death. The resulting total would definitely be more than the simple difference in ER of the two bowlers as you suggest.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Ultimate_Game

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

India has played Pandya in the last 2 ODI series which were played mostly on pattas.

 

His batting was needed for us to win in half the matches of those 2 series.

 

And he bowled well too.

If he bowls well I have no problem

 

Basically we should first pick 5 best bowlers.If Pandya can bowl as well as Bhuvi/Umesh/Ashwin then obviously he'd be preferred

 

 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

50 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

IMO it comes down to whether you want to chase 320 with Pandya or chase 280 without Pandya. I would go with the latter but yeah against Pakistan we can go with Pandya and against Saffers we can get Ashwin in the team.

Without pandya also our bowlers gave 300+ many times in last 4 yrs....i think we have record regd this 

54 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

IMO it comes down to whether you want to chase 320 with Pandya or chase 280 without Pandya. I would go with the latter but yeah against Pakistan we can go with Pandya and against Saffers we can get Ashwin in the team.

Pandya n ashwin cant compete for same spot, pandya is an all rounder

Bhuvi has terrible record againt Sa....he shud be dropped against Sa

55 minutes ago, maniac said:

Pandya has done nothing to deserve a spot in crucial games...right now at best he can be played in dead rubbers and bilaterals till he gets confident enough to start firing in either batting/bowling.

 

There is a good chance he will leave us  a 10 man team...good striker,can bowl 140k doesn't automatically translate to great performer

Pandya has a batting avg of 53, 1 fifty in 7 games batting at 7 . s/r of 119 

9 wkts in 7 games at an avg of 32 with ball.....one MOM to for his bowling 

Bhuvi avg 39 with ball(higher than pandya )

Umesh 33 (higher)

JAdeja - 34(higher)

ashwin - 32(equal)

 

Again ur falling for perception, pandya has a lot then most cricketers have done in their 1st 10 games

 

N there is no count of runs he saves in field and good catches he take 

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Ashwin has a career ER of 4.9

 

Pandya has career ER of 5.8

 

It means that we can expect around 10 runs more....and not a difference of 40.

Bhuvi has an eco of almost 6 in last 2 yrs......hypocrites call him accurate

Umesh has that high Economy 

Shami has eco of 5.5

 

Atleast pandya will save more runs in field and score more.......if u calculate pandya will actually cost u less then main bowlers 

 

 

 

Every stat of Pandya says he has done a lot more........

[Ultimate_Game]

^^^

IMO Pandya should be played against Pakistan but his competition should be with Ashwin and not Bhuvi. IMO Bhuvi has improved a lot over the last year and when the team is looking for someone to hold one end up when opposing batsmen are scoring runs easily, Bhuvi is the ideal bowler to go to. Even today he stopped Kiwis from scoring runs and it resulted in pressure and wkts. Plus he's the perfect foil to Bumrah at the death with his variety of yorkers, knuckle balls and slower ones. IMO you can't leave out Bhuvi and the choice has to be between Pandya and Ashwin with Pandya getting a nod against Pak and probably SL. Things can be evaluated at that point but I would prefer a spinner (Ashwin) over another pacer (Pandya) against SA.

[Ankit_sharma03]

15 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

It's not that simple. If a bowler releases pressure it affects the others too and diminishes their chances of picking up wkts and restricting teams to a lower total. With Pandya leaking runs in the middle overs, batsmen will have no pressure on them to take risks and get out against the other bowlers like Jaddu. They can milk others, target Pandya and with wkts in hand go for broke at the death. The resulting total would definitely be more than the simple difference in ER of the two bowlers as you suggest.

Any bowler can go for runs any day.....pandya hasnt even played enough to pass that judgement 

Ashwin has been taken apart

Bhuvi has the worst figures

What if shami crashes down

Umesh can go for runs any day

Even bumrah has given runs 

 

Ofcourse they ll target pandya, but that were wkts go often...pandya is deceptively quick . All will depend how he is used....dhoni used him really well against Nz.....lets c how kohli uses him

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

^^^

IMO Pandya should be played against Pakistan but his competition should be with Ashwin and not Bhuvi. IMO Bhuvi has improved a lot over the last year and when the team is looking for someone to hold one end up when opposing batsmen are scoring runs easily, Bhuvi is the ideal bowler to go to. Even today he stopped Kiwis from scoring runs and it resulted in pressure and wkts. Plus he's the perfect foil to Bumrah at the death with his variety of yorkers, knuckle balls and slower ones. IMO you can't leave out Bhuvi and the choice has to be between Pandya and Ashwin with Pandya getting a nod against Pak and probably SL. Things can be evaluated at that point but I would prefer a spinner (Ashwin) over another pacer (Pandya) against SA.

Ok make pandya compete with ashwin

Can ashwin hit like PAndya..... NO. Pandya will score more then ashwin 

Can ashwin field like pandya....... No way 

 

Ofcourse u can leave bhuvi out, agianst Sa u can leave him out.....he has poor record against them. Ashwin has a poor record against Aus....so they all can be rotated

The diff of 10 runs in eco is soughted and ull find ashwin lacking behind 

[express bowling]

32 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

It's not that simple. If a bowler releases pressure it affects the others too and diminishes their chances of picking up wkts and restricting teams to a lower total. With Pandya leaking runs in the middle overs, batsmen will have no pressure on them to take risks and get out against the other bowlers like Jaddu. They can milk others, target Pandya and with wkts in hand go for broke at the death. The resulting total would definitely be more than the simple difference in ER of the two bowlers as you suggest.

If we are discussing related issues then it is not that simple either.

 

The difference between Ashwin's bowling and Pandya's bowling is not expected to be as much in England as it would be in India.

 

Pandya is a much better fielder and will definitely save more runs and may contribute to a run out too.

 

With Pandya coming in at 7... the earlier batters can bat a bit more freely.

 

He is expected to score more runs and at a much faster rate too.

 

In ODIs in England, Pandya looks like a better package.

 

 

[maniac]

30 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

Without pandya also our bowlers gave 300+ many times in last 4 yrs....i think we have record regd this 

Pandya n ashwin cant compete for same spot, pandya is an all rounder

Bhuvi has terrible record againt Sa....he shud be dropped against Sa

Pandya has a batting avg of 53, 1 fifty in 7 games batting at 7 . s/r of 119 

9 wkts in 7 games at an avg of 32 with ball.....one MOM to for his bowling 

Bhuvi avg 39 with ball(higher than pandya )

Umesh 33 (higher)

JAdeja - 34(higher)

ashwin - 32(equal)

 

Again ur falling for perception, pandya has a lot then most cricketers have done in their 1st 10 games

 

N there is no count of runs he saves in field and good catches he take 

Bhuvi has an eco of almost 6 in last 2 yrs......hypocrites call him accurate

Umesh has that high Economy 

Shami has eco of 5.5

 

Atleast pandya will save more runs in field and score more.......if u calculate pandya will actually cost u less then main bowlers 

 

 

 

Every stat of Pandya says he has done a lot more........

Throwing around stats can be done to prove any player is greater than any player...not comparing Pandya to either Bhuvi nor Ashwin nor Jadeja.

 

just asking what he brings purely as a player right now.

 

forget player a b or c...do you think Pandya is a reliable bat at a 80/5 situation? Or do you think he has proven himself to come off every time

during slog overs? 

 

Do you think pandya can save anything <15 runs in the last over? 

 

Yes he he is a brilliant fielder but still not reliable or responsible enough in other areas

 

can't go with him in crucial games yet till he earns it period.

 

i will be honest I like what Pandya brings in terms of his natural abilites but do I trust and have faith in him-absolutely NOT

 

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by maniac

[maniac]

This is my team

Rohit

Dhawan

Virat

Yuvi

MSD

Jadhav

Jadeja

Ashwin

Bhuvi

Shami

Bumrah

 

adding Pandya weakens the bowling line up more than it strengthens it.

 

Bhuvi is a must in England and also add to his form with the ball...the other 2 pacers pick themselves 

 

pandya can come in for Jadeja/Ash in one of the games or in place of one of the pacers if we already qualified 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

forget player a b or c...do you think Pandya is a reliable bat at a 80/5 situation? Or do you think he has proven himself to come off every time

during slog overs? 

Do u think jadeja is reliable in that case at 7 . IF we are 80/5......play 6 bowlers to then also we have lost the game. 

During slog overs.....yes ofcourse . HE has done that in T20 season last yr and IPL .S/r of 119 . 

His slogging was one of the reason he was touted to be in Indian team

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

Do you think pandya can save anything <15 runs in the last over? 

Didnt he save 11 runs against bangladesh in WC, that was his 1st year and he has improved a lot since then. That was one game were pressure was really high

He defended 13 runs against KKR, by giving 4 runs only

 

He has done it .......on the contrary ashwin wasnt able to defend when kohli gave him the ball . Now ull say spinner wnt get a ball but all rounder and a spinner cant compete for a place either 

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

Yes he he is a brilliant fielder but still not reliable or responsible enough in other areas

By his fielding only he ll always deduct the runs he gives as bowler 

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

can't go with him in crucial games yet till he earns it period.

We went with him in t20 wc when he was more raw.....and he handled his nerves well in that crucial game against Bangladesh .

Didnt we throw in yuvi in 2000 CT

 

If anything pandya has shown he handles pressure really well 

4 minutes ago, maniac said:

 

i will be honest I like what Pandya brings in terms of his natural abilites but do I trust and have faith in him-absolutely NOT

 

 

Thats to each its own opinion.....his perfomance till date has proven otherwise 

 

IF we select our top 4 bowlers acc to opp n condition more then likely we can use pandya easily. Yes any bowler can have a bad day, a bowler can get injured , a batting line up can collapse

But we cant make strategies in fearful mind, rather go with balanced n smart squad. All rounder are meant to giev u balance

[maniac]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Do u think jadeja is reliable in that case at 7 . IF we are 80/5......play 6 bowlers to then also we have lost the game. 

During slog overs.....yes ofcourse . HE has done that in T20 season last yr and IPL .S/r of 119 . 

His slogging was one of the reason he was touted to be in Indian team

Didnt he save 11 runs against bangladesh in WC, that was his 1st year and he has improved a lot since then. That was one game were pressure was really high

He defended 13 runs against KKR, by giving 4 runs only

 

He has done it .......on the contrary ashwin wasnt able to defend when kohli gave him the ball . Now ull say spinner wnt get a ball but all rounder and a spinner cant compete for a place either 

By his fielding only he ll always deduct the runs he gives as bowler 

We went with him in t20 wc when he was more raw.....and he handled his nerves well in that crucial game against Bangladesh .

Didnt we throw in yuvi in 2000 CT

 

If anything pandya has shown he handles pressure really well 

Thats to each its own opinion.....his perfomance till date has proven otherwise 

 

IF we select our top 4 bowlers acc to opp n condition more then likely we can use pandya easily. Yes any bowler can have a bad day, a bowler can get injured , a batting line up can collapse

But we cant make strategies in fearful mind, rather go with balanced n smart squad. All rounder are meant to giev u balance

You really think that Bangladesh game was because of his talent or one of the greatest choke jobs of all time?

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

This is my team

Rohit

Dhawan

Virat

Yuvi

MSD

Jadhav

Jadeja

Ashwin

Bhuvi

Shami

Bumrah

 

adding Pandya weakens the bowling line up more than it strengthens it.

 

Bhuvi is a must in England and also add to his form with the ball...the other 2 pacers pick themselves 

 

pandya can come in for Jadeja/Ash in one of the games or in place of one of the pacers if we already qualified 

But the batting looks week , we dnt what will we get with yuvraj singh 

Dhoni isnt hitting the ball as well as few yrs ago 

Jadeja at 7........

 

We solely depend on top 3 

 

Bhuvi is must in Old eng swinging conditions, on these patta he can be rotated

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

You really think that Bangladesh game was because of his talent or one of the greatest choke jobs of all time?

u can tell anyone what to do were to bowl

If there was a choke from their end,  the last ball was perfectly bowled by him 

Its not only about plans but about execution to. And under tremendous pressure biggest of the biggest players fail to execute and in ICC tournaments its all about handling pressure

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

u can tell anyone what to do were to bowl

If there was a choke from their end,  the last ball was perfectly bowled by him 

Its not only about plans but about execution to. And under tremendous pressure biggest of the biggest players fail to execute and in ICC tournaments its all about handling pressure

Last time I checked he gave 8 runs in 2 balls out of 11. He got 2 wickets with half volleys...so he bowled 1 good ball?

 

MSD and Yuvi are not a part of my fantasy team in 2017 if you have been following my posts but they are there because of no other alternative....just because they are washed up playing pandya is not an option to strengthen batting order....it is what it is...rather have a stronger bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, maniac said:

Last time I checked he gave 8 runs in 2 balls out of 11. He got 2 wickets with half volleys...so he bowled 1 good ball?

 

MSD and Yuvi are not a part of my fantasy team in 2017 if you have been following my posts but they are there because of no other alternative....just because they are washed up playing pandya is not an option to strengthen batting order....it is what it is...rather have a stronger bowling

Well that to each it own opinion.....ill prefer a batting line up with depth + smartly rotated bowlers rather only looking for a strong bowling lineup. 

IMO Ill choose to rotate bhuv-ashwin-umesh acc to opp n pitch 

[MK55]

A fit Shami would have been my first choice. Even int the IPL he looked at least 5k down in pace and wasn't that incisive with the ball. It was always Rabada/Cummins who were entrusted to bowl the toughest overs.

Today, with the way he ran in, I don't think he's hundred percent.  NZ's dismal performance with the bat was more to do with their shot selection and lack of intent to compete. Even though Bumrah dint take wickets, he looked more penetrating than the rest. Would be interesting to see if Shami gets closer to full fitness in the next match. 

 

I'd go with Bumrah, BK and Yadav/Shami (will decide after the next warm-up) as the 3 pacers and Jadeja, Pandya.

 

I'm expecting the team management to include both Ashwin and Jadeja in the playing 11. If Pandya does well in the next game, one among BK/Shami might miss out, most probably Shami.