Rate Saha the keeper

[maniac]

17 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Saha is probably the best wk we've had as far as I've seen. Pant maybe a great batsmen but he should study from Saha on wk technique. They did a comparison in the test series where they analyzed the technique of both. Saha always stayed low for longer period than Pant. That's the most important thing in keeping. Dhoni may be good in stumping and taking regular catches but lets a lot of byes and has an unorthodox technique. Saha caught some legside catches of the fast bowlers that Dhoni or Pant can only dream of. I hope I'm not jinxing Saha In tests, a high quality wk is needed more than an extra batsmen. The keeper who can take some extraordinary catches and stumpings is more important than adding a few runs. It will help the team win more matches. Gilly is an exception that in addition to being a counterpunching batsman, he is also a great keeper

Couple of days back I watched the highlights of our  first Asia cup game vs Pak from last year on my FB feed.

 

In that game Dhoni let go simple byes and dropped a regulation catch of Shoaib Malik. Thankfully it didn’t hurt us.  This was in a 12 min highlight package.  Can you imagine the other half chances that were let go.
 

However  he did do a regulation stumping of one of the Pak tailenders- sure there were memes all over the internet for that. 

Dhoni was never a good keeper. However he was better than DK or Pappu because he never dropped regulation catches relatively speaking or missed simple  stumpings. In fact man  to man DK is a better keeper than Dhoni ,technique wise as well as  in terms of athleticism. However  as shown by his international career has an attention span of a gold fish. 

[abc]

The more I watch the flying catch down the leg-side off Theunis de Bruyn, the more I am convinced that for any other keeper, the commentary would have been: "Yadav strays down leg, glanced fine for four." No other keeper probably even dreams of taking a catch like that.

[Real McCoy]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

Couple of days back I watched the highlights of our  first Asia cup game vs Pak from last year on my FB feed.

 

In that game Dhoni let go simple byes and dropped a regulation catch of Shoaib Malik. Thankfully it didn’t hurt us.  This was in a 12 min highlight package.  Can you imagine the other half chances that were let go.
 

However  he did do a regulation stumping of one of the Pak tailenders- sure there were memes all over the internet for that. 

Dhoni was never a good keeper. However he was better than DK or Pappu because he never dropped regulation catches relatively speaking or missed simple  stumpings. In fact man  to man DK is a better keeper than Dhoni ,technique wise as well as  in terms of athleticism. However  as shown by his international career has an attention span of a gold fish. 

Dhoni probably had a bad game but his byes were not something unusual. That has as much logic as that thread about Nadeem being a better bowler than Ashwin. Dhoni had great awareness behind the stumps esp against the spinners. I don't think DK is better than him just because he is more athletic or has better technique. Results matter. Dhoni's stumping without taking his hands back is his own technique and many keepers try to replicate it. That bang game in 2016 where he chose to run the batter out with the ball in hand shows his game awareness. Also Dhoni is a much better bat in ODIs and not so bad in tests. DK or Pappu are nowhere near Dhoni in batting although DK had a good series in Eng in 2007.

DK took incredible diving catches in the 2007 t20wc. But he has bottled easy chances of stumping and catching. Him and pappu got chances before Dhoni but couldn't capitalize. DK's problem is in the mind where MSD is sound. Dhoni handled failure better even after 0-8 series which would have shattered anyone's confidence. That may sound like he was arrogant or incapable but he managed to calm the waters with a good home series v Aus and the champions trophy. Rohit's recent success opening in tests should be attributed to Dhoni who made him open in ODIs in the champions trophy when Rohit was down in confidence . Kohli would have blown fuses all over the dressing room after 0-8 and blaming teammates. Pappu is just average.

[maniac]

33 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Dhoni probably had a bad game but his byes were not something unusual. That has as much logic as that thread about Nadeem being a better bowler than Ashwin. Dhoni had great awareness behind the stumps esp against the spinners. I don't think DK is better than him just because he is more athletic or has better technique. Results matter. Dhoni's stumping without taking his hands back is his own technique and many keepers try to replicate it. That bang game in 2016 where he chose to run the batter out with the ball in hand shows his game awareness. Also Dhoni is a much better bat in ODIs and not so bad in tests. DK or Pappu are nowhere near Dhoni in batting although DK had a good series in Eng in 2007.

DK took incredible diving catches in the 2007 t20wc. But he has bottled easy chances of stumping and catching. Him and pappu got chances before Dhoni but couldn't capitalize. DK's problem is in the mind where MSD is sound. Dhoni handled failure better even after 0-8 series which would have shattered anyone's confidence. That may sound like he was arrogant or incapable but he managed to calm the waters with a good home series v Aus and the champions trophy. Rohit's recent success opening in tests should be attributed to Dhoni who made him open in ODIs in the champions trophy when Rohit was down in confidence . Kohli would have blown fuses all over the dressing room after 0-8 and blaming teammates. Pappu is just average.

I picked that game because was fresh in memory. He has screwed up in the wc too. I gave him credit that he was stronger mentally than both DK and Pappu and obviously more consistent.

 

I was going my to give him credit for Rohit but then again every captain, team manager ,expert,follower of the game are mesmerized by him so nothing unique there :)

[Real McCoy]

6 minutes ago, maniac said:

I picked that game because was fresh in memory. He has screwed up in the wc too. I gave him credit that he was stronger mentally than both DK and Pappu and obviously more consistent.

 

I was going my to give him credit for Rohit but then again every captain, team manager ,expert,follower of the game are mesmerized by him so nothing unique there :)

Likewise I would have given credit to Sachin for recommending Dhoni for captaincy but it seems his leadership material must have been well known to all seniors and ex-captains

[maniac]

2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Likewise I would have given credit to Sachin for recommending Dhoni for captaincy but it seems his leadership material must have been well known to all seniors and ex-captains

Apparently not. Dhoni was never a leader at any level. It took the cricket god to realize it and surprise people with that recommendation. It was shocking but all hail sachin for seeing that.

 

Rohit on the other hand the moment he walked on the cricket field, From  Ian Chappell to Sunil Gavaskar, from Gilchrist to symonds from Dhoni to Kohli from Greg Chappell to Duncan Fletcher everyone  were mesmerized. It’s almost like looking at a visible halo of talent and charisma.

 

Not the same thing 

[Real McCoy]

9 hours ago, maniac said:

Apparently not. Dhoni was never a leader at any level. It took the cricket god to realize it and surprise people with that recommendation. It was shocking but all hail sachin for seeing that.

 

Rohit on the other hand the moment he walked on the cricket field, From  Ian Chappell to Sunil Gavaskar, from Gilchrist to symonds from Dhoni to Kohli from Greg Chappell to Duncan Fletcher everyone  were mesmerized. It’s almost like looking at a visible halo of talent and charisma.

 

Not the same thing 

We will revisit this comment after our SENA tours. We have seen mr talent and charisma tested already but we will know for certain by that time

[Gollum]

Guys stick to topic , this thread is for paying tributes to the Bengal Tiger . I am sure there are dedicated threads for Rohit and Dhoni .

 

 

[Gollum]

Amazing keeping by Saha today, once again. Honestly his range of skills was more fun to follow than our fast bowling. Some of his best takes didn't result in wickets. 

 

Those who missed the action, I pity you. But you can make amends by re-watching the innings, won't be too long and for any test cricket fan it is ecstasy. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Gollum

[abc]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Amazing keeping by Saha today, once again. Honestly his range of skills was more fun to follow than our fast bowling. Some of his best takes didn't result in wickets.

Those who missed the action, I pity you. But you can make amends by re-watching the innings, won't be too long and for any test cricket fan it is ecstasy. 

Anywhere one can re-watch the whole innings (not just highlights packages)? I am particularly interested in, e.g., ball 2 of over 6.

 

You have to remember that in similar conditions in England, Pant gave away roughly his batting average worth of runs in extras.

[Cricwala]

Only thing Saha needs to improve as a keeper is his DRS skills, seems too hesitant to provide inputs to Kohli

[abc]

The Saha masterclass on keeping against a swinging pink ball

Most thoughts from players leading into the day-night Test in Kolkata hinged around the pink ball's visibility for batsmen, particularly during the transition from natural light to artificial lights. Only two days before the game did the conversation broach the topic of fielding and catching the pink ball. India wicketkeeper Wriddhiman Saha admitted that for him, it was more of a wait-and-see kind of situation than one of knowing; he said that the colour of the sightscreen could probably be one the biggest factors for him and the slip cordon.

Even accounting for that though, he wouldn't have imagined that just over an hour after noon, in a match being played in India, he would have to be leaping about to collect hooping balls like it was a Test in England.

 

In the first session of play, Saha probably had to contend with more swing than any batsman. It appeared that the ball's behaviour in the air and then off the surface was roughly the same as that of a red ball. That was until it went past the batsman. From there, the pink ball often swerved viciously in either direction, and Saha was being forced to dive full length on either side to gather the ball. Barring two excessively swinging deliveries that sped to the fine-leg boundary, he got to each one.

 

Within the first few overs, Saha had already received multiple pats on the back from his team-mates in the slip cordon. His first big effort was when Shadman Islam left an Ishant Sharma delivery that curved towards first slip. Saha had to lunge low with his left hand out to grab it. Shortly after, he held onto one that jagged back in, brushed Imrul Kayes' thigh and kept going down leg. That was to his right. With those two, a template was set early on, and Saha constantly drew from it in a short Bangladesh innings.

 

Eight byes in an innings of 106 aren't great returns on the face of it, but there was little a wicketkeeper could have done about those two boundaries. It appeared that India's seamers themselves, particularly Umesh Yadav, were having difficulty being as consistent with their lines as they have been in recent times. In order to preserve the pink ball's effectiveness, there is more lacquer on it than the red ball. During their fielding drills, India had found that this was causing the ball to travel quicker through the air and hit the hands harder. It was also seemingly making it difficult for the bowlers to control the ball.

 

This, by no means, is a new phenomenon in cricket. Bowlers sometimes even struggle to keep control of how the red ball moves in countries like England and New Zealand, where exaggerated movement in the air is a common sight. It is also one of the reasons teams swear by having regular wicketkeepers in this age of all-round cricketers.

 

Saha missed India's tour to England last year, where Rishabh Pant, overall, made a bright start to his Test career but was often found struggling to cope with the late movement behind the stumps. That, of course, was during the near-two-year period for which Saha was out injured from international cricket, and prompted several discussions on Pant's suitability as a Test wicketkeeper, and whether he should continue to be the first choice because of his runs.

 

That discussion was put to rest last month when Saha came straight back into the XI as India were satisfied with his fitness, and got the backing of his captain, who called him 'the best wicketkeeper in the world'.

In that series, Saha put on a masterclass in Pune, taking an excellent diving catch against pace early on and then displaying cat-like reflexes in keeping against spin. On Friday, he showed some of the ways he might have tackled the conditions on that England tour last year.

 

Most wicketkeepers don't go into a full squat against fast bowling the way they do against spin. It is perhaps a way to shed the extra load on the lower back every time they have to spring up. Rishabh Pant got into deep squatting positions after taking a couple of steps during the Australia tour late last year. Much closer, in this Test, Bangladesh's stand-in wicketkeeper Mohammed Mithun was mostly upright - slight bend of the upper body, walking onto a mark - before getting down just before the ball reached the batsman.

 

Saha is somewhere in the middle. Neither as upright as Mithun, nor as low as Pant, and decidedly more static than both. At many points on Friday, Saha and Rohit Sharma's postures were identical when a bowler ran in. Incidentally, Rohit was the one to produce the other stunning piece of fielding on the day. But in essence, Saha's stance kept him low and steady enough to be able to watch the ball closely. He has always been agile, and even after a long time out of the game and a return at the age of 34, has retained his reflexes. It all came together on Friday as he threw himself around, stopping at least three deliveries down the leg side that he would have been pardoned for if they went past him. It has been 23 months since Saha has played in an overseas Test, but in unlikely circumstances, he got to put on a show of all that he brings to this team. It was justified that the loudest applause of India's bowling innings came at the replay of his catch to dismiss Mahmudullah.

 

- Varun Shetty, ESPNCricinfo

Edited November 22, 2019 by abc

[NameGoesHere]

Saha is the best pure wicketkeeper I have seen.  Not Kirmani, not Vishy, not Pandit not Mongia (The rest don't matter keeping wise). And I've seen them all since Kirmani.

 

In pure keeping terms we are living in a time of a special talent, and his name is Saha.

[Gollum]

22 hours ago, abc said:

Anywhere one can re-watch the whole innings (not just highlights packages)? I am particularly interested in, e.g., ball 2 of over 6.

 

You have to remember that in similar conditions in England, Pant gave away roughly his batting average worth of runs in extras.

https://www.hotstar.com/in/sports/cricket/bangladesh-tour-of-india-2019/india-vs-bangladesh-m190933/match-clips/replay-india-vs-bd-day-1/1440003497

[maniac]

On 11/22/2019 at 8:48 AM, Cricwala said:

Only thing Saha needs to improve as a keeper is his DRS skills, seems too hesitant to provide inputs to Kohli

There is nothing called DRS skills bhai. Dhoni has fked up many times but when ever he got the odd one right there was a PR storm of how he is the best DRS guy ever to compensate for his poor on field performance 

[Vijy]

On 11/22/2019 at 11:45 AM, NameGoesHere said:

Saha is the best pure wicketkeeper I have seen.  Not Kirmani, not Vishy, not Pandit not Mongia (The rest don't matter keeping wise). And I've seen them all since Kirmani.

 

In pure keeping terms we are living in a time of a special talent, and his name is Saha.

it's not just Ind keepers of the past. barring healy to an extent, I cannot think of any keepers who are as good as saha is, when all-round skills are considered. after all, we have to remember that saha keeps to top-quality pacers & spinners in diff conditions. if one considers someone like boucher, he had to mostly keep to pacers and that too in pace-friendly (i.e., not turning) pitches.

Edited November 30, 2019 by Vijy