Was Sehwag unfortunate to not get as many chances as his peers?

Trichromatic · October 23, 2017

3 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Lol, I am not the inventor of the word "csk quota" there is a reason why people labeled dhoni of nepotism and for his continues recycling of his boot lickers,its not only me.

People invent lot of things. Creativity is all over ICF. But let's pretend that Jadeja picking wickets at avg of 20 for Saurastra was not a deserving player or there were 100 better options than Ashwin, and he was pushed by CSK quota when in fact he wasn't even 2nd best, rather he was best bowler we had knocking at internation cricket door.

Of course selecting best players is nepotism for some.

speedheat · October 23, 2017

People invent lot of things. Creativity is all over ICF. But let's pretend that Jadeja picking wickets at avg of 20 for Saurastra was not a deserving player or there were 100 better options than Ashwin, and he was pushed by CSK quota when in fact he wasn't even 2nd best, rather he was best bowler we had knocking at internation cricket door.

Of course selecting best players is nepotism for some.

No I agree with jaddus selection he was deserving, if you go back to my debate with ankit there too I agreed with both jaddu and ashwins selection, its also correct that we were not having better spinner then jaddu( although there is still scope for debate of ashwins selections over mishrsaji )my problem was all those mediocre negis, mohit, tyagis,Vijay etc.

Rasgulla · October 23, 2017

5 minutes ago, speedheat said:

No I agree with jaddus selection he was deserving, if you go back to my debate with ankit there too I agreed with both jaddu and ashwins selection, its also right that we were not having better spinner then jaddu( although there is still scope for debate of ashwins selections over mishrsaji )my problem was all those mediocre negis, mohit, tyagis,Vijay etc.

Lol :phehe:

Negi played 1 t20 for India that's it and which tyagi are you even on about ? Vijay had great IPLs back in 2010 2011. Try harder next time. He still is part of Test squad from Dhoni ERA

Trichromatic · October 23, 2017

18 minutes ago, speedheat said:

No I agree with jaddus selection he was deserving, if you go back to my debate with ankit there too I agreed with both jaddu and ashwins selection, its also correct that we were not having better spinner then jaddu( although there is still scope for debate of ashwins selections over mishrsaji )my problem was all those mediocre negis, mohit, tyagis,Vijay etc.

Good work slyly passing Vijay as mediocre.

speedheat · October 23, 2017

Lol

Negi played 1 t20 for India that's it and which tyagi are you even on about ? Vijay had great IPLs back in 2010 2011. Try harder next time. He still is part of Test squad from Dhoni ERA

Babu saheb lol

, sudeep tyagi a former mediocre trundler from csk, and I was debating about how csk quota used to strike us one after the other with all those mediocre selections after that they perform or not is their hard work, also the debate was long closed in other thread not this, so babu saheb better focus on other things then quoting me.

rkt.india · October 23, 2017

20 minutes ago, speedheat said:

No I agree with jaddus selection he was deserving, if you go back to my debate with ankit there too I agreed with both jaddu and ashwins selection, its also correct that we were not having better spinner then jaddu( although there is still scope for debate of ashwins selections over mishrsaji )my problem was all those mediocre negis, mohit, tyagis,Vijay etc.

How was Vijay mediocre? he made his debut for India in 2008 based on his FC exploits and not based on IPL. Sudeep Tyagi was the top wicket taker in 2008, his debut Ranji trophy season and was supposed to be the next best thing in Indian fast bowling with ability to bowl in 140s but his career got cut short due to several injuries and then he lost his pace after he broke his shoulder in 2012 during a Ranji game and underwent surgery. He could never bowl the same way he did. He was solely responsible for UPs rise in 2012 ranji trophy when he single-handedly won them them taking 18 wickets in 3 matches before he broke his shoulder. Before that, he picked up a 5-fer for India A against a strong Australia A side consisting of likes of Simon Katich at home. Can you recall how many Indian domestic pacers have picked up 5-fers against a strong touring A side in a 4-day game?

Rasgulla · October 23, 2017

4 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Babu saheb lol , sudeep tyagi a former mediocre trundler from csk, and I was debating about how csk quota used to strike us one after the other with all those mediocre selections after that they perform or not is their hard work, also the debate was long closed in other thread not this, so babu saheb better focus on other things then quoting me.

How is your phasttt bowler umesh doing in t20s and Odis right now ? Even kohli doesn't trust him. :phehe: thrown out like he is nothing. All those csk quota and medicore selections?

Jaddu,ashwin,vijay- still part of the team under kohli.

Negi - played 1 match that's it.

Tyagi - played when others are rested after AUS series. 4 Odis and 1 T20.

So your whole argument is useless. Most of them are still playing under kohli. We all know your agenda here.

rkt.india · October 23, 2017

54 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Babu saheb lol , sudeep tyagi a former mediocre trundler from csk, and I was debating about how csk quota used to strike us one after the other with all those mediocre selections after that they perform or not is their hard work, also the debate was long closed in other thread not this, so babu saheb better focus on other things then quoting me.

Sudeep Tyagi was bowling in 140s when he played for India. He was no trundler.

speedheat · October 23, 2017

How was Vijay mediocre? he made his debut for India in 2008 based on his FC exploits and not based on IPL. Sudeep Tyagi was the top wicket taker in 2008, his debut Ranji trophy season and was supposed to be the next best thing in Indian fast bowling with ability to bowl in 140s but his career got cut short due to several injuries and then he lost his pace after he broke his shoulder in 2012 during a Ranji game and underwent surgery. He could never bowl the same way he did. He was solely responsible for UPs rise in 2012 ranji trophy when he single-handedly won them them taking 18 wickets in 3 matches before he broke his shoulder. Before that, he picked up a 5-fer for India A against a strong Australia A side consisting of likes of Simon Katich at home. Can you recall how many Indian domestic pacers have picked up 5-fers against a strong touring A side in a 4-day game?

Note: I never called him mediocre in test matches
We were having debate on Vijay and his abilitys in Odis not in test matches that too in some other thread not here, admin just dragged that debate here, since csk is limited over team I was calling him him mediocre based on those 17 played Odis, I never called him mediocre in test matches, well I never rates bowlers based on domestic stats, I have seen tyagi bowl even before his injury, he was never a 140+ bowler, and yes he was average in terms of skill sets, he might have good domestic record but so is Vinay kumar.

rkt.india · October 23, 2017

5 minutes ago, speedheat said:

Note: I never called him mediocre in test matches
We were having debate on Vijay and his abilitys in Odis not in test matches that too in some other thread not here, admin just dragged that debate here, since csk is limited over team I was calling him him mediocre based on those 17 played Odis, I never called him mediocre in test matches, well I never rates bowlers based on domestic stats, I have seen tyagi bowl even before his injury, he was never a 140+ bowler, and yes he was average in terms of skill sets, he might have good domestic record but so is Vinay kumar.

please dont argue with me. I dont say anything without facts. Dont think you even saw him much. He was a 140 bowler and that was the reason he was picked for India and was touted to be the next best thing for Indian fast bowling. A 6 feet 3 inch fast bowler bowling 140 plus was not a common site in Indian cricket. He also had picked up a 5-fer against a touring Aussie side using reverse swing, now dont tell he could reverse the ball at Vinay Kumar's speed. Regarding skill set, he was 22 and not many fast bowlers at that age will have a whole lot of skills. Also, he was a late bloomer. He did not come up through age cricket.

He was picked by Mohd Kaif out of the blue who saw him bowl in the nets, in U22 trial and picked him straight away for Ranji trophy due to the pace he bowled at. He was doing well till 2012 but after that shoulder injury during fielding which led to a surgery, he could never recover back, lost pace, struggled in domestic cricket too, and the reason he never played for India again. Now tell me they guy who picking wickets for fun in domestic cricket suddenly could not do jack **** why? because he lost pace and with that his effectiveness. I remember he got ABDV bowled the first delivery he bowled to him in his first IPL game and that delivery was 141KPH. He bowled up to 144KPH and would have only got quicker but unfortunately that injury finished everything for him. We actually lost a great prospect in him. he was a loss of Indian cricket, tbh. We do not get such fast bowling prospects so often who have all the attributes, tall and fast which he was.

here is an old article.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/interviews/No-question-of-compromising-on-speed-Sudeep-Tyagi/articleshow/11944584.cms

speedheat · October 23, 2017

please dont argue with me. I dont say anything without facts. Dont think you even saw him much. He was a 140 bowler and that was the reason he was picked for India and was touted to be the next best thing for Indian fast bowling. A 6 feet 3 inch fast bowler bowling 140 plus was not a common site in Indian cricket. He also had picked up a 5-fer against a touring Aussie side using reverse swing, now dont tell he could reverse the ball at Vinay Kumar's speed. Regarding skill set, he was 22 and not many fast bowlers at that age will have a whole lot of skills. Also, he was a late bloomer. He did not come up through age cricket.

He was picked by Mohd Kaif out of the blue who saw him bowl in the nets, in U22 trial and picked him straight away for Ranji trophy due to the pace he bowled at. He was doing well till 2012 but after that shoulder injury during fielding which led to a surgery, he could never recover back, lost pace, struggled in domestic cricket too, and the reason he never played for India again. Now tell me they guy who picking wickets for fun in domestic cricket suddenly could not do jack **** why? because he lost pace and with that his effectiveness. I remember he got ABDV bowled the first delivery he bowled to him in his first IPL game and that delivery was 141KPH. He bowled up to 144KPH and would have only got quicker but unfortunately that injury finished everything for him. We actually lost a great prospect in him. he was a loss of Indian cricket, tbh. We do not get such fast bowling prospects so often who have all the attributes, tall and fast which he was.

here is an old article.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/interviews/No-question-of-compromising-on-speed-Sudeep-Tyagi/articleshow/11944584.cms

He was a 140+ bowler,you call that now???, it was a huge trend back than about how Indian pacer used to loose their pace once debut courtesy balaji,pathan, ishant. I have not seen him bowl much in domestics and ipl but whatever I have seen of him he looked average to me, just a few 140kph ones but mostly in 130s, he used to bowl either too short or too full that's what I remember, you might be right he is the potential we lost but unfortunately we can never come to conclusion as he hardly played for india that's why let's just end it here.

rkt.india · October 23, 2017

17 minutes ago, speedheat said:

He was a 140+ bowler,you call that now???, it was a huge trend back than about how Indian pacer used to loose their pace once debut courtesy balaji,pathan, ishant. I have not seen him bowl much in domestics and ipl but whatever I have seen of him he looked average to me, just a few 140kph ones but mostly in 130s, he used to bowl either too short or too full that's what I remember, you might be right he is the potential we lost but unfortunately we can never come to conclusion as he hardly played for india that's why let's just end it here.

Balaji and Pathan were never quick to begin with. They were swing 130-135 bowlers. Ishant too was not quick to begin but then he got some rhythm and bowled quick after his debut and lost it when he changed his action and now still bowls quick. Only bowler who was quick and lost pace was Munaf but he did that intentionally.

Regarding Sudeep Tyagi, he was an exciting prospect. In those days, around 2010-11, we did not have too many 140s bowlers like we have now. We only had Ishant who was on a decline after the tweak in his action. Sudeep Tyagi came as a great news to many. After decline of Munaf, a tall bowler bowling quick was emerging. I had followed his career since his ranji debut where he picked up a 10-fer on debut. Remember PK and BK were also a part of the UP team at that time and he made waves leaving them behind. He won games for UP when they had no hope using reverse swing with old ball. That year 2012 was going like a dram for him. UP was doing badly and then came back from an injury and won them 2 out the 3 games he played taking 19 wickes and then in his 3rd game, he broke his shoulder while fielding and that proved only and last nail in his career. He was never the same bowler after that. Then came Umesh, Aaron. Umesh made his IPL debut in 2010. Aaron 2011. and then Shami emerged through his first Duleep trophy game.

speedheat · October 23, 2017

Balaji and Pathan were never quick to begin with. They were swing 130-135 bowlers. Ishant too was not quick to begin but then he got some rhythm and bowled quick after his debut and lost it when he changed his action and now still bowls quick. Only bowler who was quick and lost pace was Munaf but he did that intentionally.

Regarding Sudeep Tyagi, he was an exciting prospect. In those days, around 2010-11, we did not have too many 140s bowlers like we have now. We only had Ishant who was on a decline after the tweak in his action. Sudeep Tyagi came as a great news to many. After decline of Munaf, a tall bowler bowling quick was emerging. I had followed his career since his ranji debut where he picked up a 10-fer on debut. Remember PK and BK were also a part of the UP team at that time and he made waves leaving them behind. He won games for UP when they had no hope using reverse swing with old ball. That year 2012 was going like a dram for him. UP was doing badly and then came back from an injury and won them 2 out the 3 games he played taking 19 wickes and then in his 3rd game, he broke his shoulder while fielding and that proved only and last nail in his career. He was never the same bowler after that. Then came Umesh, Aaron. Umesh made his IPL debut in 2010. Aaron 2011. and then Shami emerged through his first Duleep trophy game.

Balaji and pathan both in the initial years of their careers were sharp on that 2004 Pakistan tour, have seen them bowling around 136 kph with the fastest of 143kph so as Munaf Patel vs england in 2005, but all of them lost pace and effectiveness hence starting a trend of Indian pacers loosing a pace after their debut, regarding tyagi I agree with you as you have followed him much better than me, no doubt he had a stellar domestic record it's really really sad what happened with him, maybe i was too harsh to call him a mediocre but for a person who haven't followed him much he will always be a failure who played for csk ,he too might or might not have gone in the way of Munaf, pathan balaji etc. we can never say that as he hardly played for india.

Ankit_sharma03 · October 23, 2017

11 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Looking at the way we are giving ample chances to players like Yuvraj, Nehra, Ishant or even Dhoni, one wonders if Sehwag's career was cut too short too early. I dont think he was in any poorer form compared to the players mentioned above. If Sehwag in 2012 (when got discarded) got more opportunities like we are giving to Yuvi/MSD etc. now, who knows he might have had another stint with team India. At least could have continued in T20s.

For me Sehwag was one our greatest batsman ever and I think we let him go too early citing age.

His reflexes declined which affected his game most, his fitness declined as well, adjusment was never a part of his game

Also he mentioned previously he was thinking about retirement long ago, so basically his desired died and thats it..

Dhoni is still bloody fit

Nehra deserves credit to bowl at 140k despite so many injuries and his age

Yuvraj came back from cancer and kept working hard coz he had a desire to play for country

Sehwag lost all of it

bsriharsha · October 24, 2017

Sehwag always was the kind of player who'd lose it once his hand-eye coordination went off. He didn't have the technique in his game to adjust to his declining physical attributes.

He probably should have been playing more tests in the initial part of the 2000's.

rkt.india · October 24, 2017

10 hours ago, speedheat said:

Balaji and pathan both in the initial years of their careers were sharp on that 2004 Pakistan tour, have seen them bowling around 136 kph with the fastest of 143kph so as Munaf Patel vs england in 2005, but all of them lost pace and effectiveness hence starting a trend of Indian pacers loosing a pace after their debut, regarding tyagi I agree with you as you have followed him much better than me, no doubt he had a stellar domestic record it's really really sad what happened with him, maybe i was too harsh to call him a mediocre but for a person who haven't followed him much he will always be a failure who played for csk ,he too might or might not have gone in the way of Munaf, pathan balaji etc. we can never say that as he hardly played for india.

136 is not quick. They were mostly in 130-135K range. The could bowl a delivery here and there in 140 even Vinay Kumar has done that but that does not him or them quick. Munaf was the only bowler who was quick and lost pace.

ShebbySB · October 24, 2017

Tyagi was a great prospect....still remember that delivery to ABD.Got him bowled by a ball which pitch in around

middle and took off stump.ABD beaten by pace and movement.

Austin 3:!6 · November 4, 2017

It pains me to see that a mediocre player like Nehra gets such a grand farewell but a player with 2 triple hundreds don't get a farewell test :sad:

Laaloo · November 4, 2017

It pains me to see a **** player in t20s get a free ride for 11 years now and other promising players cant sniff a game :((

maniac · November 4, 2017

26 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

It pains me to see that a mediocre player like Nehra gets such a grand farewell but a player with 2 triple hundreds don't get a farewell test

Hope 3rd T20 is a farewell for capt cool

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