Who is 4th best test batsman ever for India?

[Ankit_sharma03]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Did you see Pujara in 2012 against England? Did you see Pujara against Aus in 2013? Did you see Pujara show in SA last time? Did you see Pujara's home exploits on  turners against SA and NZ in 2015-16? Did you see Pujara's 92 in Bengaluru against AUS when we were staring at 0-2?

 

Dd you see Vijay in overseas assignments in 2013-15?  The only match we won was in Lord's and he was our top scorer in that match. Only failed in NZ but that was 2 tests, so a much smaller sample size than England. Was terrific elsewhere, 97 in Jo'berg, 98 in Lords, 99 in Adelaide, 140+ in Brisbane which was the fastest and toughest pitch in that tour and unsurprisingly Kohli flopped there. Vijay again did all the hard work against SA and NZ at home when the series was alive along with Pujara saved a test in Rajkot when England had a mental grip over us.............. I can keep on listing but I hope you get the point.

 

Kohli is a damn fine player but the way he is overhyped on this forum and the way other equally important players and legends (SRT, Viv) are undermined by his fanbase irks me no end. Kohli is a flat track bully cum easy conditions vulture who is yet to do anything of note on square turners or when the team is in trouble. Failed in 2012 Mumbai and Kolkata, failed against SA in Nagpur and Mohali, failed against Aus this year. He is not half the matchwinner Pujara has been for us in our ascent to no 1 spot. The one thing Kohli is actually good at is shameless glory hunting eg taking the stumps as souvenir after the wins against AUS this year in spite of the fact that he had nothing to do with our victory there, as opposed to say letting our real heroes like Pujara and Saha get credit. 

Pujara- again u cant go beyond subcontinent . 

Yes every one scored somewere

But kohli has ticked most boxed 

FTB- Ahem ahem asia cup ki green grass yaad hai

 

N if thats easy why doesnt vijay n pujara has that kind of records like kohli............halwa hai na 50 ki avg 3 format men that we overrate him

Edited December 8, 2017 by Ankit_sharma03

[Stuge]

It's a tie between sehwag and laxman .....I can't believe what laxman did in 2001 against Australia .

[rkt.india]

7 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Pujara- again u cant go beyond subcontinent . 

Yes every one scored somewere

But kohli has ticked most boxed 

FTB- Ahem ahem asia cup ki green grass yaad hai

 

N if thats easy why doesnt vijay n pujara has that kind of records like kohli............halwa hai na 50 ki avg 3 format men that we overrate him

If Vijay bats at 4, he will average 50 too.

Edited December 8, 2017 by rkt.india

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

If Vijay bats at 4, he will average 50 too.

Who has stopped him at opening, sehwag avg 50 until his last slump years. Gavaskar, hayden avg 50........its not that its impossible to score at 50 avg in opening. 

Yes at 4 , batting becomes easy but .....lets not forget in our home season we have played on some minefield or rank turners where opening position looked much easier then when the ball got old n started spinning a lot more

 

Ifs n buts............who knws he might have been uncomfortable out of his position . U have to make the most of it in whatever in ur position. HE cud have even avg 60 at 4 but those are ifs n buts .....but the reality is vijay is really good but has been inconsistent as well 

 

Kohli has 20-100s n 15-50s his conversion rate is far better then vijay who has 11-100 and 15-50s............once ur set how does position matter coz ur set and u have to convert it big

[Gollum]

18 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Pujara- again u cant go beyond subcontinent . 

Yes every one scored somewere

But kohli has ticked most boxed 

FTB- Ahem ahem asia cup ki green grass yaad hai

 

N if thats easy why doesnt vijay n pujara has that kind of records like kohli............halwa hai na 50 ki avg 3 format men that we overrate him

Bhai I am talking about only test cricket. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

19 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Bhai I am talking about only test cricket. 

Virat avg 50+ in test cricket in to na

N has scored runs all over consistently apart from eng , one failure.....pujara n vijay has had more .

Let pujara score overseas like he does at home or even 70% of it ill say he is better but let him do that 1st . IF he bats in a similar way like last time forget comparing to kohli his place in team will be under threat

[Vijy]

On 12/4/2017 at 2:50 AM, Gollum said:

Their (Vishy, Vengsarkar) away averages weren't that great because there was no measly Bangladesh/Zim/weak WI/Lanka to bolster their stats esp in case of Vishy. On difficult pitches and when the team was in trouble Vishy would more often than not outbat SunnyG, this much even little master has gracefully acknowledged in his autobiography. As long as Vishy and SunnyG played together there was nothing to separate the 2 of them, went neck and neck. Sunny made more soft runs, Vishy the opposite. SunnyG had a few 100s in losing causes, whenever Vishy scored a 100 India won/drew. SunnyG was better in England, Pak while Vishy was better in NZ, Aus. Against the full quartet in operation Sunny struggled just like almost every other ATG batsman of his era. 

 

Vengsarkar albeit a great batsman was not Vishy level, I included his name as a suggestion because when Azhar and Kohli can be options why not him.

 

Jimmy was the greatest overseas bully and also someone who was most ill treated by the selectors, mainly because of his dad. He was a real master of pain who got 11 100s overseas against WI quartet and Bottle cap Khan/Pak umpires. Purely based on his record in WI against the greatest fast bowling armada the world has ever seen and will ever see till eternity, he should be in the reckoning. 

 

Kohli is nowhere close to these 3 gentlemen no matter how hard his chamchas hype him up. Guy has scored the softest possible runs imaginable and has gone MIA even in home tests when the tide was against us. Both Che and Vijay are better test batsmen then Kohl but unfortunately they don't have the corporate/Bollywood/presstitute lobby hyping every run scored by them. 

this is overhyping vishy. I do agree about Jimmy. He and Lax are my choices for the best 4th batsman. former scored heavily against top attacks and/or biased umpires and the latter was an improved version of vishy for me (in terms of clutch knocks). I could go on and show why vishy wasn't that great overseas - one case in point was that 100 when chasing 400 against WI which had a very weak attack - but I won't do so here. To each his own.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Vijy

[Vilander]

On 07/12/2017 at 12:22 PM, Gollum said:

I watched a couple of knocks of Vishy on youtube. I am basing my assertions on the sayings of my dad who was a huge cricket fans and who was a keen cricket follower right from our mid 60s tour to Australia who were then led by Bob Simpson. Moreover I respect the history of cricket and past cricketers so I don't always downplay the past cricketers. 

Cursory look at grainy records of past matches from 80s reveal poor technique bad shot selection fours through slip poor atheletisim on part of batsmen poorer atheletisim on part of fielders 60s must have been magically better.

[Trichromatic]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

Cursory look at grainy records of past matches from 80s reveal poor technique bad shot selection fours through slip poor atheletisim on part of batsmen poorer atheletisim on part of fielders 60s must have been magically better.

Current Indian team would tell you that atheltism hasn't stopped them from being worst slip fielding unit in at least last 40 years. 

 

Forget about difficult takes which used to happen earlier, this super fit Indian team drop more dollies than any other team of past.

[Vilander]

6 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Current Indian team would tell you that atheltism hasn't stopped them from being worst slip fielding unit in at least last 40 years. 

 

Forget about difficult takes which used to happen earlier, this super fit Indian team drop more dollies than any other team of past.

slip fielding is not the only fielding sorry, just a cursory rebuttal from you here. What about all the lapses singles provided pressure not built catches not held in every catching position because the fielder never arrived lack of pace easy runs conceded etc.

[Vilander]

for me this argument that past cricketers were super duper and better than current gen ones is laughable, there is improvement in every sport discipline because of technological improvement in coaching, sport diet, training, equipment etc, i know its romantic to think past cricketers were great ( esp for older generation folks) but that's simply not probable. you are wrong.

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

Cursory look at grainy records of past matches from 80s reveal poor technique bad shot selection fours through slip poor atheletisim on part of batsmen poorer atheletisim on part of fielders 60s must have been magically better.

Athleticism isn't that big a deal bro, this is cricket not athletics. I see better defensive technique in the past videos and good shot selection. To each his own. 

[Vilander]

7 hours ago, Gollum said:

Athleticism isn't that big a deal bro, this is cricket not athletics. I see better defensive technique in the past videos and good shot selection. To each his own. 

I see very poor shot selection lots of cross batted shots outside off with wide slip cordons and fours in between slips. What i have seen of sunny was he was like a modern day great with great defence balance and phenominal off side play no wonder he was legions ahead of other hacks then. Cricket batting has come a long way  batsmen of 1970s will be at level of tail enders who can bat a bit now probably. Much like every other field 1960 1970 folks were limited lacking in confidence poor excuses basically.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Vilander