King Kohli vs Sir Viv in ODIs

[vvvslaxman]

14 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Great! How would you describe cricket in 80s, 90s and 2000s?

Mindset changed over the years. I still remember the day when India for the first time crossed 300 in a ODI.  We were ecstatic. India barely crossed 300 when Azharuddin scored 30 runs in 10 balls. 22 off last over. Azhar was in dreadful form. When Azharuddin was reluctant to go, Tendulkar pushed him. Those days last over slog was always special. It is funny when you look bac because they could hav started slogging much earlier yet they would wait till the end. Karl Rackemann was smashed for 22 runs in the last over by Kirti Azad. Same way Imran Khan smashed Garner for 3 sixes in a row in the last over. Then the famous win by ALan lamb who scored 17 runs in the last over. These days they start attacking much earlier.  Preservation of wicket up the order was quintessential in the 80s. Srikkanth was the only one who would attack from first over. 

[vijaydude]

On 2/10/2018 at 7:07 PM, Gollum said:

Viv once got hit on the face by Rodney Hogg in Australia, next ball was hooked for a huge six and the King went on to destroy the quick in the rest of the innings.

 

Contrast that to Sachin in Faisalabad 2006 (a patta with scores 588, 603, 490/8 sec) who after copping a few blows by Shoaib on his shoulder and helmet ran off the pitch even after the umpire declared not out, when the replays rolled out it was clear that that was not out, yet SRT didn't have the courage to stay put.

 

He isn't alone, all modern day players have less guts than the older generation, in fact even the modern society is very cowardly if you compare with 50 years back, forget the medieval ages when men had big balls. Look at your parents or grandparents and compare them to yourself, they had more capacity for pain, more endurance, more guts and knew the meaning of struggle. 

Unfair to compare a Sachin -- in arguably the worst phase of his career, post tennis-elbow ravaging, with something that a prime(?) Viv did. 

 

Tendulkar did cop a blow even before he reached his prime (heck, in his debut series it was) to the nose and battled on. Battled on despite his tender age. 

[urnotserious]

On 2/10/2018 at 10:59 AM, Gollum said:

Wonder why notification pops up even after you put someones on ignore list? And how shameless are people who want to keep indulging in discussions when you have have asked them to GTFO, kitne desperate log hai yaar, pity such people. 

Another century by King Kohli and more distance between him and Viv who's behind him as a one day batsman. 

 

Now the tally stands at Kohli 35 to Viv 11. 

 

LOL. 

[vvvslaxman]

^  I am one of the biggest Viv's fan. But as i have told before Kohli with his hunger will leave everyone Sachin, Viv anyone else to dust when he retires. His insatiable hunger is unmatched. He is hungrier than Sachin.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

^  I am one of the biggest Viv's fan. But as i have told before Kohli with his hunger will leave everyone Sachin, Viv anyone else to dust when he retires. His insatiable hunger is unmatched. He is hungrier than Sachin.

Sachin was quite hungry for his personal records from the 2000s onwards, unlike his batting in the 1990s. What matters more than hunger is the direction where it's oriented, i.e. for the team.

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Sachin was quite hungry for his personal records from the 2000s onwards, unlike his batting in the 1990s. What matters more than hunger is the direction where it's oriented, i.e. for the team.

Not outright selfish. But opportunity presented itself he didn't mind wasting few deliveries to get to his mark. His 98 against pakistan was exception. His 179 in a chase was very good. 

[vvvslaxman]

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

^  I am one of the biggest Viv's fan. But as i have told before Kohli with his hunger will leave everyone Sachin, Viv anyone else to dust when he retires. His insatiable hunger is unmatched. He is hungrier than Sachin.

Let him score a 50 in a WC KO game first. Viv literally did it all - ahead of all his contemporaries by a country mile, incredible record against the best bowlers of his time, incredible record in the WC, MOTM performances in WC SF and Finals. Kohli needs to win many more games against the bowlers of his time and dominate a WC or two and deliver match-winning performances at the business end of the WC for this to be a serious comparison.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Let him score a 50 in a WC KO game first. Viv literally did it all - ahead of all his contemporaries by a country mile, incredible record against the best bowlers of his time, incredible record in the WC, MOTM performances in WC SF and Finals. Kohli needs to win many more games against the bowlers of his time and dominate a WC or two and deliver match-winning performances at the business end of the WC for this to be a serious comparison.

 

Gambhir has got a 97 in final, Sachin has none in two attempts. So Gambhir > Sachin. That is only tip of the iceberg. Not a mandatory requirement.  Back in the 70 one dayers was in formative stages not like now. Why did he flunk in 1983 world cup final and 1975 world cup final? 

[rkt.india]

19 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

Kohli just pisses all over Viv richards.

 

I mean, this thread shouldnt even exist. What's the point.

 

There's no way anybody can objectively argue that the dogshit level ODI cricket of the 70s and 80s is comparable to modern day ODI cricket.

 

Kohli's run of form is longer than viv richard's entire career, its not even a fair comparison. Maybe we should compare viv richards to rohit sharma or something.

Yes Viv and rohit are comparable

[rkt.india]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Let him score a 50 in a WC KO game first. Viv literally did it all - ahead of all his contemporaries by a country mile, incredible record against the best bowlers of his time, incredible record in the WC, MOTM performances in WC SF and Finals. Kohli needs to win many more games against the bowlers of his time and dominate a WC or two and deliver match-winning performances at the business end of the WC for this to be a serious comparison.

Rohit scored a 100 in a WC knockout, averaging 54 as opener with three double hundreds. Can he be compared to Sir Viv?

[surajmal]

Pre 90's ODI cricket should just be ignored (except for moments here and there) - pure amateur hour that was. 

[kruiser]

5 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

 

LOL, some of our beloved bharat-vaasis will claim viv richards is saying this to boost his "brend velue" in india.

 

Even though nobody in india under the age of 35 even gives a **** about viv richards.

Masaba does. 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Rohit scored a 100 in a WC knockout, averaging 54 as opener with three double hundreds. Can he be compared to Sir Viv?

Yup. Your greatness is not defined by a handful of innings. Those are just supplements. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

Gambhir has got a 97 in final, Sachin has none in two attempts. So Gambhir > Sachin. That is only tip of the iceberg. Not a mandatory requirement.  Back in the 70 one dayers was in formative stages not like now. Why did he flunk in 1983 world cup final and 1975 world cup final? 

If Gambhir had an overall record within a post code of Sachin, why not? But he doesn't, so that's that. Plus Sachin still averages close to 50 in the WC KO games anyway. Kohli OTOH has an atrocious record in WC KO games averaging less than 15 in 5 games. To compare him with the GOAT who has delivered MOTM performances in WC SF and Final is a joke. And how did Viv flunk in the 1983 final? Within in the context of the game, it was the 2nd best innings of the match. And in 1975, he made up for his failure with the bat with 3 run-outs. In between, he found time to deliver a MOTM performance in the 1979 WC Final . It's one thing to score dominant 100s against a beaten team in dead rubbers, let him do it in the games that matter for this to be a serious debate.

[eternalhope]

8 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

 

LOL, some of our beloved bharat-vaasis will claim viv richards is saying this to boost his "brend velue" in india.

 

Even though nobody in india under the age of 35 even gives a **** about viv richards.

You don't mince words, do you. Loved it.

[Jimmy Cliff]

6 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Rohit scored a 100 in a WC knockout, averaging 54 as opener with three double hundreds. Can he be compared to Sir Viv?

Rohit is a Bangladesh merchant in WCs who isn't good enough to carry Viv's jock strap.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Jimmy Cliff said:

If Gambhir had an overall record within a post code of Sachin, why not? But he doesn't, so that's that. Plus Sachin still averages close to 50 in the WC KO games anyway. Kohli OTOH has an atrocious record in WC KO games averaging less than 15 in 5 games. To compare him with the GOAT who has delivered MOTM performances in WC SF and Final is a joke. And how did Viv flunk in the 1983 final? Within in the context of the game, it was the 2nd best innings of the match. And in 1975, he made up for his failure with the bat with 3 run-outs. In between, he found time to deliver a MOTM performance in the 1979 WC Final . It's one thing to score dominant 100s against a beaten team in dead rubbers, let him do it in the games that matter for this to be a serious debate.

Effecting 3 run outs doesn't mean he did well with  bat.  1983 final 33 highest score doesn't mean he did well lol. He failed to help his team chase a meager total. If you are a GOAT you should not flunk in such an easy chase. Kohli would never do that. Just you know Viv Richards was considered a great player not for his 138 something not many even cared about. ODI became relevant only after kerry packer. All his great knocks were in bilaterals. That is why he even became famous in one dayers. His 138 was just a coincidence.  Not even Viv will come up with this argument. Because it is ridiculous to use one or two innings out of 400 innings to put yourself above some other player who outclassed every batsman ever played in one day history. 

[kruiser]

Been watching cricket since 1985, starting with the Benson and Hedges cup in Australia. The ODIs now are un-recognizable from what was played then.. all aspects - batting, fielding and bowling, even the approach to the game is so much more professional now. 

At that time, ODIs were light entertainment - a filler between the tests. There were no ODI specialists like today. 260 was easily a match winning total...

Keeping all that in mind, Kohli is the greatest in this era. Same as Viv was in 80s or SRT was in 90s.  If the champions of past were playing today, they would have trained as hard as Kohli.. thats a demand of the times! So don't compare across different eras. 

I loved Viv's swagger, Tendu's mastery and am enthralled by Kohli's ferocity! 

[Jimmy Cliff]

22 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

"Best bowlers of his time"...LOL. name one good bowler Richards faced.

I am in a kind mood today so will give you five instead of one.

 

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