Kathua rape-murder: Lawyers stop police from filing chargesheet

[Alam_dar]

30 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

you may support / hate whomever you want.it isnt as if your rants are going to make much of  a difference .Just don't go around pretending that you aint a bit of a bigot .

As far as their dress is concerned, it's doesn't bother me much.May be you would like to oogle at their wives ........i  doubt if one can ever force one's wife to wear such a dress ,it's part of their long tradition and they choose it for themselves,why not try to force it on to some female members of your own family and see if it works.

It is unfair of you and green monster to bring those issues which are non related to the topic of this thread. If you have issue with the personal views of Gollum, then please create a separate thread with the heading "Criticism on the Views of Gollum". 

[Clarke]

It would be a good time to remind ourselves that we have fundamental problems with the police force being incompetent and moreover being remote controlled by the netas of the states. A very fundamentally sound & unbiased investigation by the first level (local police) would have ensured that this case wouldn't have gathered the political & communal undertones. 

[coffee_rules]

 

She says .. " And suddenly got a mail from a media company for tje promotional tweet/ And also discussed with other celebrities so that al have "Hindustan" instead of India"

 

Somebody is sponsoring this campaign clearly. Isn't this the definition of "Hinduphobia" ? While, terror has no religion , if we called it radical Islamic terrorism, it amounts to "Islamophobia for these #ChrislamoCommies!!

[Gollum]

Fake news and lies peddled by Hindutva champions reg Kathua exposed

 

https://www.thequint.com/news/webqoof/what-really-happened-kathua-rape-case

 

https://www.firstpost.com/india/from-rohingya-migrants-to-section-233-of-ipc-kathua-rape-case-sparks-slew-of-fake-claims-on-social-media-4433655.html

 

[coffee_rules]

TheQuint, FirstPost - epitome of fair and balanced journalism.  They are liberal rags, I wouldn't take their credibility seriously. 

[Gollum]

2 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

TheQuint, FirstPost - epitome of fair and balanced journalism.  They are liberal rags, I wouldn't take their credibility seriously. 

They are libtard sources agree but they have raised valid points. Besides ShankhNaad, HinduPost, Sonam Mahajan, Madhu Kishwar etc lack credibility big time. I hate libtards but when it comes to rape and mutilation of an 8 year old I can no longer allow my political leanings to overpower my conscience. Rape/gender violence isn't fair game in this political fight between left and right, both ends of the political spectrum must unite here, same even in case the perpetrators are leftists or Muslims.

[Gollum]

Even Nirbhaya's case was less brutal than this. The only equivalent of this I can find is the Kamduni gang rape/murder of the college girl Shipri Ghosh. Perpetrators were TMC cadre, mostly Muslim. Bengal civil society erupted after that, even libtards, Bong intellectuals and commies joined forces to fight for her. Not one Muslim group organized any rally or support for the accused, end result 3 got death sentence and remaining got life imprisonment. Hope we get a similar verdict in Kathua case.

[Moochad]

Quint, Wire, Firstpost all have instances of fake news and low credibility as well. All journalists should be questioned, not just ones that don't promote and agree with what we thought originally happened. 

 

https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/opinion/anatomy-of-a-concoction

Quote

On 17 January 2018, the dead body of a child murdered was reported in the forest near Rasana village in district Kathua. Kathua is in Jammu province, in the state of Jammu and Kashmir. Generally, a dead body found anywhere in the state of Jammu and Kashmir, that too in a remote forest, far away from the hustle and bustle, and media, is no big deal. But, this was going to be a big deal.

Big deal, not because it was winter and the entire state government was in Jammu, the winter capital. Not even because the state Legislative Assembly was in session, in Jammu. The bigger reason was that the body was of an eight-year-old Asifa, adopted daughter of Mohammad Yusuf. She was reported missing a week ago, on 10 January. Mohammad Yusuf is a nomad tribal. In Jammu and Kashmir, they are called Bakerwals. For such tribes and other “settlers”, Mehbooba Mufti had passed a law called Roshni Act. Under this Act they could occupy government and forest land in the state, pretty much as they pleased. To her much embarrassment, this Act was challenged and a stay on the Act was granted by the state High Court. Kathua is one of the rare districts in the Muslim-majority state that still has an overwhelmingly Hindu population.

As soon as the Chief Minister, Mehbooba Mufti, gets to know of the murder, she dispatches two of her ministers, Mian Altaf and Zulfiqar Choudhry, to Rasana. Also went rushing to the area some sundry Hurriyat activists. Rasana is a small hamlet of barely 25 families, all Hindus. Suresh Gautam, the local SHO, Hiranagar, had already registered a case and had begun investigations. The ministers and the Hurriyat activists begin to find out the names of the activists and mobilisers among this small population of Rasana and the surrounding region. They didn’t stop at just that. Now, Suresh Gautam started getting suggestions and leads on who to summon, who to question, who to detain and pretty much how to investigate. Meanwhile, the body of dead Asifa was sent to Kathua district hospital for autopsy.

In barely a week into the case, the investigation is taken away from the SHO Hiranagar, Suresh Gautam. A Special Investigation Team is constituted under Additional SP Adil of Samba. Barely 10 days into the investigation, even this team is relieved of the case. Now the case is handed over to the Crime Branch to investigate. Curiously, it is not any of the Crime Branch from the three jurisdictions of Jammu, the region where the crime took place. This Crime Branch was imported from the Kashmir valley. Investigators comprised cops from even Ladakh. Only a lady from Jammu was part of the team. Even more surprising was the inclusion of ASI Irfan Wani in the investigations. 10 years ago, this gentleman was in jail for over a year. As in-charge of the Thatri police post in Doda, he was accused of a murder in his custody, and also of raping the sister of the man he murdered. Cleverly, Superintendent Ramesh Jalla, a Kashmiri Hindu, is made the head as a cover for what was to follow.

Not just the investigating teams, the autopsy report too leaves much to be desired. There is no sign of rape or even a sexual assault. Dr Mukul, who conducted the postmortem, is under considerable pressure to look again, and again. Just a murder, even if of a girl barely eight years old, is not as macabre, perhaps. Imagine the revulsion it will evoke if a rape is added. And, what if it is a gang-rape!

The Crime Branch from Kashmir starts working to its mandate. The entire village is in their veritable siege. No home is spared. Every family is targeted. People are randomly picked. Third degree is the routine. Humiliation, torture and terror unleashed are of an unprecedented intensity. Within 15 days, the results begin to show. The entire village empties out. They took refuge in the Ramlila grounds of the Kootah area. They were not spared there either. 150 of them were arrested by the Hiranagar police. First the Prohibitory Orders were issued and then all were picked up for violating Section 144. This included the former sarpanches—Kant Kumar and Baghmal Khajuria. They protest. The Chief Minister tweets to mock at the people carrying a Tricolour in support of the rapists. Almost a case-study kind of example in crime investigation was being evolved.

While all this is on, the Chief Minister, on 14 February, presides over a meeting of her Tribal Welfare Department. Among her several instructions is the one which says that the Jammu Kashmir police should not lend its assistance to help vacate the government or forest lands illegally occupied by the squatters and grabbers. This is notwithstanding the Roshni Act stayed by the High Court.

Now the charge-sheet is out. The scene of crime is a temple. This is where the poor baby was supposedly held captive for five days. This temple is a one-room structure with three windows, two of which are broken and completely expose the insides of the room. Never mind the fact that Asifa’s both parents were murdered over a property dispute. Never mind the fact that she herself had inherited a big estate and her own death had several potential beneficiaries. Never mind the fact that an over 60-year-old retired government revenue official is supposed to have asked his son, who is in the middle of his exams, at Meerut, to come home for a day to “satisfy his lust”. And, is it only incidental that this man has been persuading everyone around not to sell their lands to Muslims as a demographic invasion of the entire Jammu region was on? How dare he!? And how dare the accused SPOs be so active against bovine smugglers? They needed to be fixed too. Never mind that no medical records and reports were attached with the charge-sheet that churns out a gut wrenching story capturing every macabre detail.

 

[coffee_rules]

14 minutes ago, Gollum said:

They are libtard sources agree but they have raised valid points. Besides ShankhNaad, HinduPost, Sonam Mahajan, Madhu Kishwar etc lack credibility big time. I hate libtards but when it comes to rape and mutilation of an 8 year old I can no longer allow my political leanings to overpower my conscience. Rape/gender violence isn't fair game in this political fight between left and right, both ends of the political spectrum must unite here, same even in case the perpetrators are leftists or Muslims.

 

The credibility of the CB which has created the charge sheet itself is in question. If the crime has happened, then the culprits needs to be sentenced to death, let the SC move the case to Chandigarh and decide on the case. All this drama about Hindustan, Devisthan is just a sideshow. I will protest any kind of Hindu-shaming that is being staged out in the media. BDutt writing in WaPo about Hindu-Nationalists supporting the accused as heroes. There is no truth to that, and the MSM is sticking to that story just to shame Hindus. A community hall with no gods, is being labelled as Devisthan , why the importance to name-calling? The crime doesn't become more or less where ever it was committed. But, this Hinduphobia has to be ridiculed.  

 

If the case is more argued in MSM/SM, the less are the chances to get the judegement as they are trying to influence the judge and it will be a mis-trial! 

Edited April 16, 2018 by coffee_rules

[Moochad]

So apparently originally a 15 year old was arrested in the case in Jan 19 itself

http://m.greaterkashmir.com/news/jammu/15-year-old-boy-accused-of-murdering-kathua-girl-arrested-govt/272787.html

Quote

Posted : Jan 19 2018 7:30PM

A 15-year-old boy has been arrested over the murder of an eight-year-old girl in Hiranagar area of Kathua district of Jammu and Kashmir.

Responding to the concern expressed by the legislators on the gruesome incident, Minister for Revenue & Parliamentary Affairs, Abdul Rehman Veeri informed the Jammu and Kashmir legislative assembly that the accused has confessed to the crime.

 

He said the investigation conducted by the Special Investigation Team (SIT) headed by SDPO border Chadwal revealed that the accused kidnapped the minor girl and put her in nearby cowshed at village Rassana, where he attempted to rape her and when she resisted, he killed her by way of strangulation. 

He said the accused has been arrested and further investigations are on.

Giving details of the case, the Minister said that on 12.01.2018, the complainant Mohammad Yousuf S/o Shab Din R/o Rassana Mohara, Tehsil Hiranagar produced a written application before the police stating therein that his daughter namely Asifa (8 years) had gone for grazing horses in the nearby forest area. At about 1600 hours, the horses returned to the Dhera but Asifa did not return. 

Consequently, the complainant alongwith others started search in the forest and on the next day they again searched the forest areas but Asifa could not be traced.

However, on March 1st this article was in the Tribune India

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/jammu-kashmir/kathua-case-goes-awry-150-villagers-held/551303.html

Quote

Kathua case goes awry: 150 villagers held

Minor’s rape and murder Rasana villagers refuse to sign bail bonds, say they are not criminals

Jammu/Kathua, February 28

With the police describing protesters as “trouble-making elements”, around 150 people, including former sarpanches, women and children, were today arrested for violating the prohibitory orders in connection with the ongoing controversy over the alleged rape and murder of a minor girl in Rasana village of Kathua district.However, the arrested persons have refused to sign the bail bonds, as sought by the police, for their release. Claiming they were not criminals, the arrested persons said the “suppressive tactics” of the government were only aimed at vitiating the peaceful atmosphere of the area 

 

There was a controversy during late Feb itself where 150 people were arrested protesting a "controversy" regarding the case.

 

From the same article

Quote

Congress seeks high-level probe

• Jammu: The Jammu and Kashmir Pradesh Congress Committee on Wednesday demanded a high-level independent probe into the alleged rape and murder of a minor in Rasana village of Kathua district last month. In a statement issued here, senior party leaders expressed concern over the failure of the state government to instill confidence among the villagers in the fairness and credibility of the investigation. They alleged that the government had failed to handle the situation.

  This puts egg on the face of people trying to insert a political angle on the case. The people of Jammu are clearly united in demanding a higher level, read CBI probe, regardless of political affiliation.  This goes with the video I posted earlier where the Bakerwal tribesmen said both Hindus and Muslims were asking for a CBI probe. 

 

The only people obstructing justice in my eyes are the State Government for not sending the case to the CBI

 

Furthermore, from the same article

Quote

“The government has turned totally insensitive towards our concerns. We are not supporting the accused but this investigation on communal lines is not acceptable. We too want justice for the girl and her family but not at the cost of making innocent people scapegoat,” Vijay Kumar Sharma, Hindu Ekta Manch chief, said.

 Again, in Feb 28th itself,

Hindu Ekta Manch says "We too want justice for the girl and her family but not at the cost of making innocent people scapegoat ", and "we are not supporting the accused", "

 

That gets spun by "neutral journalists" on April 10th to "people are supporting the rapists and obstructing justice "

Quote

Sharma alleged Crime Branch officers were allegedly investigating the case on the directions of their political bosses. “We will not sign the bail bonds and will start a hunger strike inside the police station till our demand for a CBI probe in the case is met,” he added.

 

Meanwhile, the BJP MP said, “We want justice should be delivered to the victim and her family, but harassment of young children in the garb of investigation will not be tolerated.

Same article, Sharma says his demand is a CBI probe and that the Crime Branch is politicizing the case.

 

The BJP MP claims that even children are being harassed in the investigation of the case. 

 

More from the article

Quote

This is shameful for the state government that people have migrated from their village due to the fear of the police.” The body of the minor girl from the Bakerwal community was found from forest area in Rasana village on January 17. The case was handed over to the Crime Branch for investigation. Three persons, including two SPOs and a juvenile, have been arrested so far.

 

Families fled village, alleging torture

 

All families from Rasana village had on Tuesday fled to the Kootah area in Kathua for their “safety” alleging “torture and harassment” of their children by Crime Branch officials. dHowever, the police said no migration had taken place and locals had returned on Tuesday evening. “It was merely an attempt by some vested interest to communalise the situation and to put unnecessary pressure on the investigating agency,” the police said.

 Rasana village families are alleging that they are being tortured by the Crime Branch, including women and children, and are fleeing the village,

 

while the police are saying this is not the case. 

 

 

All that happens up to March 1st itself, and no national media attention is given to the incident

 

Then on April 10th suddenly English Media "star" journalists Like Barkha Dutt and Shekhar Gupta start tweeting about the case and it suddenly becomes a national story, over 2 months after an arrest was first made and 1 month after allegations of torture against the crime branch officials were made. 

 

Then Bollywood Actors sometime after April 10th get contacted by a media promotional company to start posting pictures with placards to promote the story... 

[Moochad]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/kathua-rape-case-all-accused-ready-to-go-for-narco-test/videoshow/63782519.cms

 

Quote

Kathua rape case: All accused ready to go for narco test

Quote

The counsel for the accused in the alleged murder and rape of an eight-year-old girl, Ankur Sharma said on Monday that all of them were ready for the narco tests. After taking part in the first hearing of the case in the court of Kathua Chief Judicial Magistrate, Sharma also said the chargesheet copies provided to one or two accused did not contain medical records and other details. "The court directed that chargesheet copies should be provided to all accused. They (the accused) have said that we are ready for narco tests. Next date of hearing is April 28," Sharma told mediapersons.

 

 

[Mariyam]

4 hours ago, Green Monster said:

@Moochad are narco tests really legal in India? How often do accused ask for these themselves?

Narco tests are inadmissible as evidence in Indian courts. Neither can an accused seek nacro tests to prove innocence. 

 

Narco tests are mainly used by the investigating authorities for leads/clues during the course of the interrogation.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Mariyam
typos

[Alam_dar]

40 minutes ago, Green Monster said:

There is nothing unfair... people like you bring religion into everything... people dont mention anything regarding Islam, then u needlessly peddle your anti-Islam posts in threads wehre it isnt mentioned,

 

then in this same thread u also mention that you r atheist ...

If you have problems with me, then please open a new thread about me and bring your proofs. Why to contaminate this thread?

 

Quote

now in this thread you+others are saying Hindu this Hindu that when no religious angle has even been shown here...

If you blame, then you have to quote exactly where I said Hindu this and Hindu that. 

 

Whole thread is about this that one party is saying that Hindus have been wrongfully targeted through Asifa's case. Therefore, what is wrong if I counter their argument that Hindu Ekta Manch have not been wrongfully targetted? Why to blame me then Hindu this and Hindu that?

 

Wise people say one could never make every one happy. You will always find faults in others. 

 

Please report the mods if you have problems with me, but don't bring your personal issues with me in the non related threads. 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

She says .. " And suddenly got a mail from a media company for tje promotional tweet/ And also discussed with other celebrities so that al have "Hindustan" instead of India"

 

Somebody is sponsoring this campaign clearly. t this the definition of "Hinduphobia" ? While, terror has no religion , if we called it radical Islamic terrorism, it amounts to "Islamophobia for these #ChrislamoCommies!!

 

(1) May I ask what is the name of that Media Company? Why it is not mentioned with name. 

 

(2) Any why ALL the Peoples are being blamed for the tweet of this "one company"? 

 

 

 

[Moochad]

58 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Nacro tests are inadmissible as evidence in Indian courts. Neither can an accused seek nacro tests to prove innocence. 

 

Nacro tests are mainly used by the investigating authorities for leads/clues during the course of the interrogation.

So it's mostly posturing?

[Alam_dar]

Did the Crime Branch Report give communal colour to the incident?

 

Absolutely not.

The communal colour was given when Asifa's parent tried to bury their poor daughter.

But the same Hindutva forces stopped them by force to bury her as if she got Dirty blood and body which could have made the whole place Achoot for the Hindus.

Asifa was not the Rohingiya,

And Asifa was not even alive to change the demographics of that area.

But still the Hindutva forces were not ready to give any space even to her dead body.

 

Now Hindu Ekta Manjh and BJP boasting that they want justice for Asifa. But tell us in the last 3 months how many times Hindu Ekta Manch or BJP condemned the Hindutva forces who denied Asifa even a burial?

Answer is, perhaps NOT a single time Hindu Ekta Manch or BJP condemned this incident.

 

They themselves gave the communal colour to this Issue, and now blaming others for that.

 

They deny any communal colour from their side, but this denial of burial itself proofs that Asifa was abducted and raped and killed while this hatred already existed in the Hindutva community.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Moochad]

2 hours ago, Moochad said:

So apparently originally a 15 year old was arrested in the case in Jan 19 itself

http://m.greaterkashmir.com/news/jammu/15-year-old-boy-accused-of-murdering-kathua-girl-arrested-govt/272787.html

However, on March 1st this article was in the Tribune India

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/jammu-kashmir/kathua-case-goes-awry-150-villagers-held/551303.html

There was a controversy during late Feb itself where 150 people were arrested protesting a "controversy" regarding the case.

 

From the same article

  This puts egg on the face of people trying to insert a political angle on the case. The people of Jammu are clearly united in demanding a higher level, read CBI probe, regardless of political affiliation.  This goes with the video I posted earlier where the Bakerwal tribesmen said both Hindus and Muslims were asking for a CBI probe. 

 

The only people obstructing justice in my eyes are the State Government for not sending the case to the CBI

 

Furthermore, from the same article

 Again, in Feb 28th itself,

Hindu Ekta Manch says "We too want justice for the girl and her family but not at the cost of making innocent people scapegoat ", and "we are not supporting the accused", "

 

That gets spun by "neutral journalists" on April 10th to "people are supporting the rapists and obstructing justice "

Same article, Sharma says his demand is a CBI probe and that the Crime Branch is politicizing the case.

 

The BJP MP claims that even children are being harassed in the investigation of the case. 

 

More from the article

 Rasana village families are alleging that they are being tortured by the Crime Branch, including women and children, and are fleeing the village,

 

while the police are saying this is not the case. 

 

 

All that happens up to March 1st itself, and no national media attention is given to the incident

 

Then on April 10th suddenly English Media "star" journalists Like Barkha Dutt and Shekhar Gupta start tweeting about the case and it suddenly becomes a national story, over 2 months after an arrest was first made and 1 month after allegations of torture against the crime branch officials were made. 

 

Then Bollywood Actors sometime after April 10th get contacted by a media promotional company to start posting pictures with placards to promote the story... 

To continue with this earlier post

So basically the PDP and NC are opposing a CBI probe here and BJP and INC are favoring it. Their duplicity is exposed by the fact that they numerous times have asked for cases to be given to the CBI in the past. 

 

But we are supposed to believe that the CBI is "compromised" in this case? 

 

Bakerwals and Gujjars in Jammu are also supporting CBI probe. 

 

Looks like BJP will be losing Jammu in the next elections. Congress would surely have taken a stand and forced a CBI probe. BJP is just desperate to stay in power at the state level. These Jammu people have been demanding CBI probe since at least the end of February. What a pathetic and spineless government.  

[Mariyam]

2 hours ago, Moochad said:

So it's mostly posturing?

 

2 hours ago, Green Monster said:

thanks, so its mostly useless then??? what are the chances anything substantivve comes from narco tests???

 

Are u a lawyer by chance? do u think this case will go to higher courts, maybe supreme court, because the murkiness around the whole case???

 

Just to give you guys an overview.

 

The way it works here is that the investigators have to take consent of the suspects before administering the test on them. In most cases, the suspects refuse to give consent. In that case, the investigators have to approach the court and explain the need and scope of the test. If the court  grants permission, only then can they proceed with the test.

The test has thrown up clues in various cases. The clues have been used to make the case against the suspects stronger. So, it isn't just about posturing. The tests threw up some clues in the Arushi murder case, where one of the servants admitted to killing Arushi.

 

Even if the case goes to higher courts, the preliminary investigation here is so shoddy that the court is going to ask what any lower court would ask the investigators; ie, to present their findings (or whatever they haven't managed to botch thus far) in a more compelling manner. The need is not for a higher court, but an investigating agency which can collect clues/data/testimonies in a more professional manner. That is the only way Asifa's family can get any semblance of justice. The biggest failure here is that of the first response police team, who just haven't handled the crime scene with the due professionalism that it deserves.

 

[coffee_rules]

4 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

(1) May I ask what is the name of that Media Company? Why it is not mentioned with name. 

 

(2) Any why ALL the Peoples are being blamed for the tweet of this "one company"? 

 

 

 

The tweet gave away the media campaign behind these coordinated tweets. They all have the same text - Ashamed of Hinduustan, Devi-sthan. Look at these images being circulated in SM.

 

 

[Alam_dar]

8 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

The tweet gave away the media campaign behind these coordinated tweets. They all have the same text - Ashamed of Hinduustan, Devi-sthan. Look at these images being circulated in SM.

 

 

 

Off course there are people who are at extreme in hating Hindutva and they will post such images. 

It is same when lot of cartoons are made against the Molvies. Or even cartoons of Muhammad are made. 

And ex-Christian atheists making cartoons of biblical God and Prophets like Moses and David and this practice is much more common in Europe then in India.