Why do some South Indians can speak Hindi fluently while many can't?

[zen]

9 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Which language do you speak when you go to Mumbai ? Is it Marathi ?
Secondly, you speak Hindi coz you know how to speak that, imagine if Delhi makes a rule that people will only speak Punjabi there. Will you learn Punjabi ?

There is a difference b/w going somewhere and living somewhere. And earlier both Gujarat and Maharashtra were one state. 
 

I am not asking people to speak in Gujarati when I go out. But asking people to speak in Gujarati in Gujarat esp. if they know the language and have been living here for a considerable length of time. If I am living in North America, I speak in English. 
 

These guys migrate in tons to every part of the country and don’t make an effort to learn a language or respect the culture. On top of that try to impose Hindi as if it is a national language.

Edited October 4, 2024 by zen

[zen]

Has Gujarat become a part of India to speak in Hindi and accommodate those who speak in Hindi? 

[singhvivek141]

1 minute ago, zen said:

There is a difference b/w going somewhere and living somewhere. And earlier both Gujarat and Maharashtra were one state. 
 

If I am living in North America, I speak in English. 
 

These guys migrate in tons to every part of the county and don’t make an effort to learn a language or respect the culture. On top of that try to impose Hindi as if it is a national language.

Let's understand who migrate on a high level

1. Labour class, they are uneducated poor folks who come to other states for poor menial jobs. The employers of these states hire then anyways because they are less costly than the local folks. We all know how the mills in Mumbai were shut down due to union issues. Taking the non-local labours will remove that issue. These are the ones whom you can say potentially cause the issue to the culture.

2. Govt Employess, mostly they are rotated due to their jobs. Few year they will be in Kerala, in a couple of years they will be in Maharasthra, then UP, then Jharkhand. They don't cause any issues to locals, they do their own job silently and wait for the transfer to move out (unless they have plan to settle down).

3. Business folks, they are the income generators and employment generator. Mostly they learn local language.

4. IT folks, they fall under 2 different categories
a) those who are bachelors and just here for experience before moving to a different city, they don't care about local culture and language as they know they have to go back to their hometown.
b) those who are married and settled permanently, they are settled, they have respect to local culture and they or their next-gen eventually learn local language and become a local.

[zen]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Let's understand who migrate on a high level

1. Labour class, they are uneducated poor folks who come to other states for poor menial jobs. The employers of these states hire then anyways because they are less costly than the local folks. We all know how the mills in Mumbai were shut down due to union issues. Taking the non-local labours will remove that issue. These are the ones whom you can say potentially cause the issue to the culture.

2. Govt Employess, mostly they are rotated due to their jobs. Few year they will be in Kerala, in a couple of years they will be in Maharasthra, then UP, then Jharkhand. They don't cause any issues to locals, they do their own job silently and wait for the transfer to move out (unless they have plan to settle down).

3. Business folks, they are the income generators and employment generator. Mostly they learn local language.

4. IT folks, they fall under 2 different categories
a) those who are bachelors and just here for experience before moving to a different city, they don't care about local culture and language as they know they have to go back to their hometown.
b) those who are married and settled permanently, they are settled, they have respect to local culture and they or their next-gen eventually learn local language and become a local.

I am not happy that at many places in Gujarat, people try to speak in Hindi. 
 

Gujarati can be the worst language in the world but I want it to not get marginalized in Gujarat, which has a sophisticated culture. 
 

Edited October 4, 2024 by zen

[singhvivek141]

5 minutes ago, zen said:

I am not happy that at many places in Gujarat, people try to speak in Hindi. 
 

Gujarati can be the worst language in the world but I want it to not get marginalized in Gujarat, which has a sophisticated culture. 
 

Agree, that's where I did the classification above.
Stop the labours and working class, it will reduce the Hindi speakers in gujrat. It will be a loss to businesses as they will die due to lack of cheap labour, but who cares. 
 

[zen]

19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Agree, that's where I did the classification above.
Stop the labours and working class, it will reduce the Hindi speakers in gujrat. It will be a loss to businesses as they will die due to lack of cheap labour, but who cares. 
 

At the end of the day, I am venting my frustration esp. since one of the highlights for me in India is being able to speak in Gujarati! 
 

I flew Turkish Airlines. At Istanbul, the plane to Mumbai was full of Gujjus (maybe 80%) that it felt like a domestic flight. I can’t forget the atmosphere with Gujarati words floating all around, having lived the last few years in an English-Hindi environment. 

[zen]

When the plane took off at Istanbul, a kid even shouted “Jai Shri Ram”, making me feel as if I was in India already  

[coffee_rules]

12 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

 

Well, yes, there are idiomatic differences in all the dialects i know of, even in English, as well as different accent - thats usually the first mark of a dialect. 

But what i meant is, in Hindi there are dialects like Maithili/Bhojpuri and in Bengali there are the Chattogram/Sylheti dialects, which are not like the other dialects, that are like you describe above - i dunno the idioms, the accents are different, its much like going to Scotland and getting scottish accent and slangs and idioms thrown at you.
But those dialects, its like a totally new language. except for some words like 'i/you/me' etc. almost ALL words = incomprehensible. 

And its not just my people's accent that finds Chattogrami/Sylhethi incomprehensible - just like its not just the Khariboli hindi speakers who find Maithili/Bhojpuri incomprehensible - pretty much ALL other dialects of Bengali feel the same way about Chattogrami/Sylhethi and same for Hindi.

I wonder if there is anything like that in southie languages, because most languages, dialects are like in English = you may have difficulty understanding the accent and idioms but if you asked them to speak slower/properly, you will get it. While if i ask a Chattogrami to speak slower, its just slower gibberish. 

 

Although Bhojpuri, Awadhi, Haryanvi are all dialects of Hindi or Hindustani, Maithili is not a dialect or accent. It is a language itself. On similar lines we have many such dialects/languages like Tulu, Kodava, Sanketi, which do have some borrowed Kannada words, but we can’t comprehend even if spoken slowly. There is language in Niligiris that has a mix of Kannada and Tamil words spoken by migrants who went from Karnataka to Niligirs area and settled there - Badaga. 

[Austin 3:!6]

6 hours ago, Lannister said:

In the real world, we usually steer clear of these psychotics. But online, there's no escape. 

Similarly, in real world you will not say the things that you are able to type here behind the computer screen. Can you stand in Kormangla, line up few northies and actually say the things face to face? I highly doubt it. So these forums has both pros and cons.

[Lannister]

39 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Similarly, in real world you will not say the things that you are able to type here behind the computer screen. Can you stand in Kormangla, line up few northies and actually say the things face to face? I highly doubt it. So these forums has both pros and cons.

Say things what exactly? Haven't you been reading about the adventures of Bengaluru auto drivers? What makes you think you can push around native Kannadigas in Karnataka?

[Austin 3:!6]

14 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Say things what exactly? Haven't you been reading about the adventures of Bengaluru auto drivers? What makes you think you can push around native Kannadigas in Karnataka?

That is all in your mind. No one is pushing anyone or anything on native people. However, Bangalore is a metropolitan city with top MNCs from around the globe. In a set up like that people from all over the world lives there for better life. You cant say well its in Karnataka..so native language must be spoken etc. Bangalore is a big city and like in any big city it is also multi cultural and multi lingual. That doesnt mean people deliberately trying to erase native language.

 

I hear hindi, punjabi, tamil, urdu and other languages everytime in London. Do you think native Britishers should whine about it like you are doing? If they do you will be the first one to call them racist and far right.

 

In 2024 you cant have such myopic view. Big cities like Bangalore will always be multi lingual. You being a native Kannadiga should take pride on it rather than sulking. And if you really can't tolerate North Indians, move over to some villages where only Kannadiga is spoken.

[zen]

31 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Say things what exactly? Haven't you been reading about the adventures of Bengaluru auto drivers? What makes you think you can push around native Kannadigas in Karnataka?

I have seen a video where an auto driver slaps a lady in B’luru. That was rude and not something to be proud of

 

 

 

[Lannister]

19 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

That is all in your mind. No one is pushing anyone or anything on native people. However, Bangalore is a metropolitan city with top MNCs from around the globe. In a set up like that people from all over the world lives there for better life. You cant say well its in Karnataka..so native language must be spoken etc. Bangalore is a big city and like in any big city it is also multi cultural and multi lingual. That doesnt mean people deliberately trying to erase native language.

 

I hear hindi, punjabi, tamil, urdu and other languages everytime in London. Do you think native Britishers should whine about it like you are doing? If they do you will be the first one to call them racist and far right.

 

In 2024 you cant have such myopic view. Big cities like Bangalore will always be multi lingual. You being a native Kannadiga should take pride on it rather than sulking. And if you really can't tolerate North Indians, move over to some villages where only Kannadiga is spoken.

When did I ever say that Kannada should be forced on migrants? Go back and read what I’ve written again. 

[coffee_rules]

42 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

That is all in your mind. No one is pushing anyone or anything on native people. However, Bangalore is a metropolitan city with top MNCs from around the globe. In a set up like that people from all over the world lives there for better life. You cant say well its in Karnataka..so native language must be spoken etc. Bangalore is a big city and like in any big city it is also multi cultural and multi lingual. That doesnt mean people deliberately trying to erase native language.

 

I hear hindi, punjabi, tamil, urdu and other languages everytime in London. Do you think native Britishers should whine about it like you are doing? If they do you will be the first one to call them racist and far right.

 

In 2024 you cant have such myopic view. Big cities like Bangalore will always be multi lingual. You being a native Kannadiga should take pride on it rather than sulking. And if you really can't tolerate North Indians, move over to some villages where only Kannadiga is spoken.

 

It's not as if they are asking to speak in Kannada, but the issue is servicing businesses only in Hindi.  Customer service in Banks nowadays don't serve in Kannada at all and ask for customers to speak in Hindi!. That autowallah would not be so angry if the lady was not as imposing and abusive  and responding in Hindi. He had a genuine problem that she cancelled after he was  waiting for 10 mins, but she kept threatening him that she will call police. Just a "Sorry, Anna, mistake aithu" would have defused the situation. People have to be sensible.  Some of the North Indians have this street ego - tu jaanta hai main koun hoon types.

[Lannister]

@Austin 3:!6 Clueless moderator. Time to resign. Let me take up the moderation. 

[Muloghonto]

10 hours ago, Lannister said:

I recall you proudly identifying as a Brahmin when you were racially targeting South Indians on this forum. Do you really think no one noticed that?

You recall wrong. 

I also didnt racially target the southies, since i do not believe southies are a race sepearate from mine. Its you who target the northies racially because of your inbred southie dravidianism.

 

[Mariyam]

13 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

In this context, that kid had lost both of his parents, so calling him "Yateem" was a mistake anyway. More so coz it came from a temple priest who don't use this word in North...it was just a poor writing.

 

What I meant to say was, that South is unable to recognize Hindi coz of the usage of these Persian/Urdu words, they are more familiar with Sanskrtized words...anyone in South will immediately recognzie the word "samudra" vis-a-vis "samandar". 

 

Also Bollywood is known for their lazy writings.. in the Super 30 movie, Hrithik Roshan used the word "ka hoi gawa" as a Bihari sentence...it's not the way a Bihari speaks in any sense. Either either "ka ho gail" or "ka ho gaya".

 

Ka hoi gawa is a mix up Khichdi of Mathura, Lucknow & Varanasi dialect.

 

17 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

What do you call a kid who has lost parents in Urdu?

 

Although khadi boli or common language is in between Sanskritized Hindi vs Urduized Hindi, early and even now Bollywood writers were Muslims like Sahir, Shakeel, Kaifi and the language had heavy bias towards Urdu words in songs. The Sanskritized Hindi vanished away due to the linguistic colonization of Persian in Hindi. Bollywood soft power ensured that and even Sanskritized Hindi was made fun of. Can you imagine a song like this now?

 

 

The concept of a Yateem: Losing a father or both the parents. If a kid were to lose his/her mother and the kid is young, the Hadees recommends that the Husband marry again for the sake of the kid or hand over the upbringing of the kid to the other wife/wives. So a child who has  lost his mother is not an orphan, strictly speaking from an Islamic viewpoint. Or that is my understanding of it.

 

Bollywood script writers could be accused of being lazy, but to allege that Hindi across this vast country became Persianized as against Sanskritized because of movies is disingenious. AIR and DD had a far bigger reach in our formative years than Bollywood movies. Most programs were in "shudh" Hindi.

 

Most Bollywood writers/lyricists today can't even write the Urdu letters.  Even the Muslim ones. So your entire theory of " evil Bollywood keeping down Sanskrit to promote Persian" is extremely suspect,

 

 

[Mariyam]

16 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Well you are wrong. Once upon a time, i could speak Urdu fluently, because my ancestors had links to Mysuru state admin and kept the Urdu literacy going. I never got around to reading it, but i could speak it. And if i spoke proper Urdu, 99% of people who say 'hindi and urdu are the same thing' wont understand more than 5% of the words i'd use. 

 

 Interesting. Could you please share a few sentences. Would like to see if I follow what you are getting at?

 

Most linguists do not consider Hindi/Urdu/Hindustani as distinct languages. Same structure, grammar, syntax and phraseology.

[Mariyam]

5 hours ago, zen said:

When the plane took off at Istanbul, a kid even shouted “Jai Shri Ram”, making me feel as if I was in India already  

Everyone knows that a true Gujju would have shouted JSK: Jai Shri Krishna.

 

Edited October 4, 2024 by Mariyam

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

Everyone knows that a true Gujju would have shouted JSK: Jai Shri Krishna.