Indian grandmaster Soumya Swaminathan pulls out of Asian Chess Championship in Iran due to compulsory headscarf rule

[Gollum]

Just now, Texy said:

They barred their own chess player from partcipating for refusing to wear hijab

They also banned Dorsa's kid brother because he played a match against an Israeli. He was just a 14 year old schoolkid and pairings are computer generated based on crosstable standings, so not his fault either. Apparently he was supposed to inform the Iranian embassy after the pairings came out which he didn't do. Now he has left chess and is maintaining a low profile in Iran with his parents while Dorsa is studying in St Louis University and will represent Team USA from this year. Hope the entire family leaves Iran ASAP. 

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, beetle said:

Khaps are no better.

They have done it all...from banning mobiles to endorsing killings of lovers.

They are no better.

Khaps are a societal order. They are not above the law. If they break the law, then media/police will make them accountable. That is not the case with the Iranian clerics. Whatever they rule, the law of the land abides by it. That is the basic difference in this issue. This is a false equivalence in case of the Barkha. 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Stradlater said:

No in my original post to beetle I already mentioned the 1400 year old tyranny by Shiites. It was you who made it a Hindu vs Mulsim affair when infact we were talking about Khaps.

I did no such thing. I said that both sides are guilty of whatabout-ism. You specifically asked me to pick a side between mullahs and chaddis and then got all bent out of shape when i said neither. 

 

1 minute ago, Stradlater said:

Go ahead mention the brutalities of Hindu Kings which was on a similar level to the Muslim Invaders.

Ok. Paramavishnuloka Devaraja Sri Sri Suryavrman- II. In terms of sheer numbers, comparable to Ala-ud-din Khilji's massacres.

In terms of proportion to population of the region, comparable ONLY to Timur or Genghis Khan. Pretty much depopulated the  south vietnam region.

1 minute ago, Stradlater said:

I challange you to name one hindu king who committed atrocities on the scale of Timur in delhi and punjab and I can name 10 Muslim ones who were on par with him if not worse. What's even more interesting is that they all did it in the name of Islam.

 

Challenge accepted:

Paramavishnuloka Devaraja Sri Sri Suryavarman II

 

From India, Aditya I and Paratanka Chola were guilty of genocide in south Andhra region.

 

[asterix]

I get it you are a Bengali.

I'm a Bengali too... There are many here who are unlike Mulo.. Don't generalise. Yes, I agree many Bengalis are like Mulo...

[Alam_dar]

How change could come in the Islamic Societies? 

 

1. External Pressure:

 

Like what has been done by Soumya Swaminathan as protest. Things will start getting change from here. 

 

Like the Western world created the pressure upon all the Muslim countries in the 20th century, and compelled them by force to sign the pact of eradicating the Slavery. Initially Muslim Mullah protested against the eradication of slavery, by telling the Muslims that making Sharia is only the Right of Allah, and Allah has made Slavery Halal. Thus no one is allowed to declare Slavery Haram till the judgement day. Saudi Arabia resisted against ending of slavery. And only in 1962 it singed the pact under the immense pressure of Britain. 

 

Therefore, indeed the external pressure could work. Nevertheless, it would not be a "permanent" change. For example, Saudi Mufties have fatwa that slavery is prohibited ONLY till the time Islamic State does not get enough power to wage Jihad successfully against the Kuffar. And once Islamic State defeats the Kafir Nations, then once again the institution of Slavery will be established and Kafir women and children will become slaves. 

 

Muhammad bin Salman (crown prince of Saudia) has brought changes in Saudia. But they are not "permanent". Any time they could be reversed by any one else who gets power in Saudi Arabia. 

 

Arab and Muslim societies of Egypt, Morocco, Turkey etc. became secular to some extent under the colonialism. But this change was not permanent and they were reversed shortly after the end of colonialism. 

 

The only permanent change came under King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella of Spain, where every Muslim was compelled to convert, or he was killed or he ran away to the Muslim States in the North Africa. Even after the forced conversion, Muslims kept on practising their religion for 100 years secretly. 

 

Conclusion is this that through Ruthless killings and permanent Inquisition tactics, it was possible to eradicate Islam from Spain. 

 

I wonder if such ruthless killings and permanent Inquisition tactics are possible in the present world. In India RSS is heading towards this direction. 

 

 

 

2. Internal Changes:

 

I don't think there exist any success story in the history of any such Internal Change. 

 

Therefore, question is, if really any such Internal Change is possible? 

 

 

[beetle]

15 hours ago, Turning_track said:

I'm no admirer of Khap either. But ladies like Barkha or Sagarika are known to do balancing acts. Look how she diverts the core matter of issue, it's just an example of shoot & scoot tactic used innumerable times by the prima donna using TL. 

They are antinational, terrorist /naxal supporters. Expecting them to make sane comments is naive.

[beetle]

15 hours ago, Stradlater said:

Oh they are a billion times better than the Shiite theologian clergy which rules Persia.

Want me to list down their achievements in the last 1400 years? 

_______

On topic: I have a soft spot for Iranis because of their relations with India but moves such as these make me wanna bang my head against a brick wall.

Khaps don't have the extreme power the religious clergy have/had.

Khaps don't have constitutional backing for their retarded  diktats.

Still they manage to order killings and gangrapes ( not very common but still counts)....not to mention their tendencies to take away basic rights of women whenever the fancy strikes them .

 

Imagine if they had more power and backing like the clergy you mentioned.

The khap is limited by their lack of constitutional power and their  influence only on their community.

 

Given unaccountable power makes everyone mad.....be it the islamic fundoos, khaps, chaddis , commies at the big stage or policewala , judges, mother in laws at the smaller stage.

 

Bus thodi power aur thodi backing mil jaye...to sab khoob keher dhaenge.

The only way to stop these bullies is to not bend and call their bluff before they become too strong.

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by beetle

[Alam_dar]

7 hours ago, beetle said:

Khaps don't have the extreme power the religious clergy have/had.

Khaps don't have constitutional backing for their retarded  diktats.

Still they manage to order killings and gangrapes ( not very common but still counts)....not to mention their tendencies to take away basic rights of women whenever the fancy strikes them .

 

Imagine if they had more power and backing like the clergy you mentioned.

The khap is limited by their lack of constitutional power and their  influence only on their community.

 

Given unaccountable power makes everyone mad.....be it the islamic fundoos, khaps, chaddis , commies at the big stage or policewala , judges, mother in laws at the smaller stage.

 

Bus thodi power aur thodi backing mil jaye...to sab khoob keher dhaenge.

The only way to stop these bullies is to not bend and call their bluff before they become too strong.

 

But who will bell the cat?

 

The poor women of these societies?

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Stradlater]

20 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

I did no such thing. I said that both sides are guilty of whatabout-ism. You specifically asked me to pick a side between mullahs and chaddis and then got all bent out of shape when i said neither. 

 

Ok. Paramavishnuloka Devaraja Sri Sri Suryavrman- II. In terms of sheer numbers, comparable to Ala-ud-din Khilji's massacres.

In terms of proportion to population of the region, comparable ONLY to Timur or Genghis Khan. Pretty much depopulated the  south vietnam region.

Challenge accepted:

Paramavishnuloka Devaraja Sri Sri Suryavarman II

 

From India, Aditya I and Paratanka Chola were guilty of genocide in south Andhra region.

 

So in 5 thousand year old history you managed to bring out 3 names. Take a bow. 

Even then though none of  the above mentioned  stand a chance to Timur who was basically a small time Turkic robber yet managed to create destruction and havoc so much that Delhi and Punjab were completely  plundererd and razed to the ground with casualties numbering millions. He probably won't even make the top 10 list of medieval Islamic pillagers. 

 

Go on though. Find and search more names.Good luck.

[Muloghonto]

44 minutes ago, Stradlater said:

So in 5 thousand year old history you managed to bring out 3 names. Take a bow. 

A big part of the reason, is we don't have recorded history. Think of that for a moment - 99% of Indian and South-East Asian kings we know of, is only due to the inscriptions they've left and less than a dozen written sources on them. There are not very many kings with balls like Suryavarman, Aditya or Paratanka Chola who'd write inscriptions on their temples or copper-plate grants detailing their butchery.

 

We know Mehmoud of Ghazni's barbarity from written sources- from his own courtier. Not because he left inscriptions somewhere. How many Hindu or Buddhist Mehmoud of Ghaznis are hiding in our history because we don't have written sources on them ?

 

This is the advantage(pros) of not having recorded history: we get to gloss over all the barbarity of our ancestors and pretend they were all Sad-gurus. We only focus on the disadvantages(cons) of not having recorded history- which is lack of nationalistic zeal, strong identity with the past or deep knowledge of our ancestors (like the Chinese/Greeks or Italians do).  

 

Quote

Even then though none of  the above mentioned  stand a chance to Timur who was basically a small time Turkic robber yet managed to create destruction and havoc so much that Delhi and Punjab were completely  plundererd and razed to the ground with casualties numbering millions. He probably won't even make the top 10 list of medieval Islamic pillagers. 

 

Go on though. Find and search more names.Good luck.

You are completely wrong about all three of them. Suryavarman definitely matches Timur in his destruction and genocide of Champa, in terms of % of population affected in a region. 

 

Genocide is defined as the intent and ability to kill an entire ethnicity. Not numbers. Genocide most of 1.2 billion Indians and you are still a genocider. Genocide the half a million Bhutanese and you are still a genocider. Not better. Genocide is not defined by empiric numbers, by any source.

 

Aditya and Paratanka obviously won't make the list, not because of lack of intent, but because of lack of capability: neither one of them was as capable a commander or builder of a powerful military like Timur. 

 

Suryavarman was, but he was constrained by geography - Vietnam to China crossing is exceptionally hard (which is why tiny little Vietnam has managed to go most of its history without Chinese occupation, despite China making it a huge priority), so is crossing Burma from Thailand. 

 

Why should i consider a genocider to be more humane, simply because he was less competent at growing his power or didn't have favorable geography to assist him ?

 

They are all the same class of genociders - Timur,Paratanka, Aditya and Suryavarman-II, which is defined by the intent and barbarity at display within the limits of their power. 

If you wanna gas an entire ethnicity of people, it makes you on the same moral plane as Hitler. You don't get a 'i am better than Hitler' tag, just because you are too incompetent to gain power to carry out your genocide or is limited to a smaller scale due to the same reason (inability at power).

 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Muloghonto