Shivam Dubey

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, MCcricket said:

Shivam is work in progress n he is a all rounder n mostly they take time.

Dubey is more of a batsman who can bowl , he can be a 6th bowling option not 5th

2 hours ago, MCcricket said:

Even Kallis was average before he became good. Shi bam is physically strong n a big lad, can score quick, action is ok need to invest in this youngster

Yes most all rounder not only kallis, even shakib and many other took a lot of time

[sandeep]

Vijay Shankar is a better cricketer than Dubey as of today.  

[MK55]

Hopefully he gets better with more games. He was struggling to time the ball and it looked as if it was impossible for him to clear the field.  

Most power hitters do struggle at times with their timing and often miss connecting the balls. However, they don't appear to exert themselves so much while hitting big. Every single ball that he played, it looked as if it was never going to clear 80% of the ground's radius.

It's only his first game and will have to observe him for some more games.

Bowling is absolutely innocuous. I can imagine guys like Finch murdering him.     

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

Vijay Shankar is a better cricketer than Dubey as of today.  

How?

[tweaker]

https://www.mensxp.com/sports/cricket/70095-shivam-dube-may-have-saved-his-t20-world-cup-dream-with-his-performance-in-series-decider.html?utm_source=FB-IA&utm_medium=Dont-Miss-IA

 

 

Shivam Dube May Have Saved His T20 World Cup Dream With His Performance In Series Decider

[sandeep]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

How?

Much better batsman.  Both are cannon fodder with the ball.  Shankar is a proven quality fielder too.  

[express bowling]

36 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Much better batsman. 

 

Depends on the batting position.

 

Shankar is potentially better at 3 to 5.

 

Dube is potentially better at 6 or 7.

[sandeep]

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Depends on the batting position.

 

Shankar is potentially better at 3 to 5.

 

Dube is potentially better at 6 or 7.

Dont get me wrong - I'm not writing off Dubey.  Haven't seen enough of him yet.  But based on first impression and the way he batted - he looks like a guy who will pummel domestic level bowling but not be able to transfer that to the top level.  Shankar may not be as effective a hitter, but is at least technically sound.  No brainer pick ahead of Dubey in ODI cricket.  And its not like he's completely useless in T20 either.  

 

Both are Rishi Dhawan level utilitarian with the ball.  i.e. nothing threatening there.  Best we can hope for is some good execution, right lengths and line, and a mix of variations.

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Dont get me wrong - I'm not writing off Dubey.  Haven't seen enough of him yet.  But based on first impression and the way he batted - he looks like a guy who will pummel domestic level bowling but not be able to transfer that to the top level.  Shankar may not be as effective a hitter, but is at least technically sound.  No brainer pick ahead of Dubey in ODI cricket.  And its not like he's completely useless in T20 either.  

 

Both are Rishi Dhawan level utilitarian with the ball.  i.e. nothing threatening there.  Best we can hope for is some good execution, right lengths and line, and a mix of variations.

 

What interested me about Dube was the fierceness with which he was hitting Nortje bowling express in an A-team series.

 

Granted, Nortje is not that accurate ... but still, ability to hit genuine pace is something that needs to be looked into.

Edited November 12, 2019 by express bowling

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

What interested me about Dube was the fierceness with which he was hitting Nortje bowling express in an A-team series.

 

Granted. Nortje is not that accurate ... but still, ability to hit genuine pace is something that needs to be looked into.

Oh I don't doubt he brings some level of hitting ability to the table.  

 

And happily, we have an Indian team that is strong enough that it can afford to have a slot or 2 to experiment with inconsistent players, especially in bilaterals.  

 

Results and tournament wins are one thing - but this is the one thing I am so glad to see today's Indian team emulate of the Champion Aussie team of yore - not playing full strength teams for bilaterals, having multiple options for practically every slot.  Having seasoned professionals with years of FC experience ready to step in when needed.  

 

We are not far away from being one of the greatest Indian teams to ever play the game.  If only Virat hadn't completely f**ked up selection in SA, and if Bhuvi-Bumrah were fully fit for the complete England series.  We would already be there.

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

And happily, we have an Indian team that is strong enough that it can afford to have a slot or 2 to experiment with inconsistent players, especially in bilaterals.  

 

Dube mindset may not be that of an inconsistent batter, as his FC average is 48.

 

But we have to see whether he can hit on slowish pitches.

 

Quote

Results and tournament wins are one thing - but this is the one thing I am so glad to see today's Indian team emulate of the Champion Aussie team of yore - not playing full strength teams for bilaterals, having multiple options for practically every slot.  Having seasoned professionals with years of FC experience ready to step in when needed.  

 

We are not far away from being one of the greatest Indian teams to ever play the game.  If only Virat hadn't completely f**ked up selection in SA, and if Bhuvi-Bumrah were fully fit for the complete England series.  We would already be there.

 

We have some loopholes to plug to reach there 

 

1)  Backup decent quality quick bowlers ....  Our 2nd rung pacers are either medium pace or pacy but inaccurate. As fast bowlers are an injury prone group, we need to work on this area.

 

2)  High SR big hitters in LOIs ...   We don't have sufficient hitters needed for today's playing style.

 

 

[sandeep]

Just now, express bowling said:

Dube mindset may not be that of an inconsistent batter, as his FC average is 48.

 

Gotta be a very small sample set.  I don't think he has played more than 1 full FC season.  

 

This is the problem with T20 cricket -batsmen are under so much pressure to score off of every ball.  Dubey's 2 innings against BD do not give us a proper picture of what he can or cannot do.  But an initial impression does form - hitter first, batsman second.

[sandeep]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Dube mindset may not be that of an inconsistent batter, as his FC average is 48.

 

But we have to see whether he can hit on slowish pitches.

 

 

We have some loopholes to plug to reach there 

 

1)  Backup decent quality quick bowlers ....  Our 2nd rung pacers are either medium pace or pacy but inaccurate. As fast bowlers are an injury prone group, we need to work on this area.

 

2)  High SR big hitters in LOIs ...   We don't have sufficient hitters needed for today's playing style.

 

 

Sure.  But relative to the rest of the world, we have the best and deepest bench.  Sooner or later, we will unearth a big hitter or 2.  Although the IPL is far too meritocratic and outsources this job to proven international stars for this role, Indian candidates will eventually emerge.  2 or 3 years ago, I wrote an 'article' predicting that we will see a golden age of Indian allrounders come through within 5-6 years.  At the time, I expected more of the prospects to be spinners i.e. Krunal and Nitish Rana types.  But glad to see Hardik and Shivam come through.  And there's Nagarkoti out there too.

 

On the fast bowling, we don't have a deep pipeline just yet, but I like Siraj as a red-ball prospect - like him a lot actually.  For ODIs, it is clear that the team values 'discipline' over wicket taking penetration, and are working on the likes of Chahar, Saini etc to step into the shoes of Bumrah and Bhuvi.  And there's plenty of reason to see the glass half-full rather than half-empty.

Edited November 12, 2019 by sandeep

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

On the fast bowling, we don't have a deep pipeline just yet, but I like Siraj as a red-ball prospect - like him a lot actually.  For ODIs, it is clear that the team values 'discipline' over wicket taking penetration, and are working on the likes of Chahar, Saini etc to step into the shoes of Bumrah and Bhuvi.  And there's plenty of reason to see the glass half-full rather than half-empty.

 

Lots are candidates are there but they are ...  

 

...  Either not being chosen on time for the national team  (   Siraj and Saini for tests  )

 

... Or injured for a long time  (  Nagarkoti, Nathu )

 

... Or not being picked either regularly or at all for our A-teams  (  Mavi, Prasidh, Avesh, Rajpoot )

 

... Or being picked for the wrong format ( Siraj )

 

Plus many young quicks are not getting to play sufficient FC.  (  Khaleel. Prasidh )

 

 

[sarcastic]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:22 AM, maniac said:

 that was copy pasted from cricinfo verbatim based on what Dubey said

Yes, you quoted it verbatim but saying it as an advice like the way you normally do sounds like you want to elevate Ro based on that.

Fundamentally a praise from you even if using genuine sources sounds skeptic to the eyes of some fellow posters because you show excessive fanboyism at times towards Rohit. 

[sandeep]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Lots are candidates are there but they are ...  

 

...  Either not being chosen on time for the national team  (   Siraj and Saini for tests  )

 

... Or injured for a long time  (  Nagarkoti, Nathu )

 

... Or not being picked either regularly or at all for our A-teams  (  Mavi, Prasidh, Avesh, Rajpoot )

 

... Or being picked for the wrong format ( Siraj )

 

Plus many young quicks are not getting to play sufficient FC.  (  Khaleel. Prasidh )

 

 

Saini is injured - Siraj I agree that he's been picked for the wrong format.   The rest will eventually break through hopefully.  

[Vk1]

Dube ji will settle in this team... He's more useful to us in ODIs where we seriously lack finishers without hardik. I would play both instead of going for the age old formula of spinning allrounder. Gives our top 5 lots of freedom to express themselves.

[sarcastic]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:32 AM, sandeep said:

yeah ok.  If you want to give him the 'captain' credit for such subjective things, you also need to keep in mind that it was the captain's fault that a series deciding game boiled down to whether an unproven rookie who is clearly more of a batsman, would be able to give you 4 full overs without being destroyed.  And his 1st 2 overs show what could have easily happened.  

I agree that it was indeed a very risky decision to go with only five bowlers for a decider match and expecting Dube for a full quota of 4 overs is expecting much. 

I am exactly talking about the same issue(regarding the bolded part). If Krunal played that match, Dube would not have bowled after those two overs. We do not know how the two overs of Krunal would have gone (may be better, may be worse) but Dube's 3rd and 4th overs have certainly changed the game. It could be faith instilled in him that brought something out of him.... It could be that he thought "The captain and TM trust me I can bowl 4 overs... so I must be good enough to deliver them" and he just did what he could and India unearthed something special out of the youngster. 

It is about these little unexpected incidents that can make or break someone's career. The gamble to play Dube to complete 4 overs has certainly helped India to unearth this guy as a useful all rounder in this format. If not, we would never realize what his bowling potential is. 

[maniac]

28 minutes ago, sarcastic said:

Yes, you quoted it verbatim but saying it as an advice like the way you normally do sounds like you want to elevate Ro based on that.

Fundamentally a praise from you even if using genuine sources sounds skeptic to the eyes of some fellow posters because you show excessive fanboyism at times towards Rohit. 

I deny this accusation. I only stood for what is true :)

[express bowling]

24 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Saini is injured -

 

Only in the recent past.

 

He could have played test matches both against Afghanistan as well as the WI in 2018, when they toured India.

 

5 day cricket is his strongest format.