Time for Dhoni to go?

[jalebi_bhai]

4 minutes ago, mancalledsting said:

I made the voting public so that people could declare themselves openly but somehow it’s become anonymised. I wonder why??

I'll fix it, don't worry.

[jalebi_bhai]

38 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Can we see the name of those 7 legends who still think Dhoni should be in team after y'da horror show.

You can now.

[raki05]

24 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

I'll fix it, don't worry.

[rtmohanlal]

49 minutes ago, raki05 said:

Can we see the name of those 7 legends who still think Dhoni should be in team after y'da horror show.

Ofcourse..... I am one of those and I am saying with confidence & firmness of mind  that Dhoni should be in the team.Having said that I too felt strange in the way Dhoni played that particular inns.Why he did, only himself and team management knows.But the thing is that

if we check his  last 2 years performance  his avg: remains more or less the same but  only his str: rate has decreased by a little.Hence taking his value as a pure wkt keeper and captaincy experience into consideration, he can still be in the team.But he needs to be properly utilized by team management. I think he can play as a 4rth position batsman if  2 wkts fall early  with in  first 15 overs or so.Means it is a situation  in which firstly consolidation is needed and then after that  playing aggressively. Dhoni with his vast experience is the most suited person to do this  role.

 

BTW some people here are supporting Rahul for 3rd(if Kohli  plays 4rth) or 4rth position.Rahul or any other newbie,they are supposed to be unlike Dhoni.Isn't it???Means they can straight away start hitting out unlike Dhoni.That means they are qualified to bat at any position

after 4rth because of their ability to hit out from the first ball itself straight away.So why can't Dhoni be 4rth and Rahul or any other qualified newbie be at 5th??????

[raki05]

26 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

I'll fix it, don't worry.

Yup i can see it now, thnx

[raki05]

1 minute ago, rtmohanlal said:

Ofcourse..... I am one of those and I am saying with confidence & firmness of mind  that Dhoni should be in the team.Having said that I too felt strange in the way Dhoni played that particular inns.Why he did, only himself and team management knows.But the thing is that

if we check his  last 2 years performance  his avg: remains more or less the same but  only his str: rate has decreased by a little.Hence taking his value as a pure wkt keeper and captaincy experience into consideration, he can still be in the team.But he needs to be properly utilized by team management. I think he can play as a 4rth position batsman if  2 wkts fall early  with in  first 15 overs or so.Means it is a situation  in which firstly consolidation is needed and then after that  playing aggressively. Dhoni with his vast experience is the most suited person to do this  role.

 

BTW some people here are supporting Rahul for 3rd(if Kohli  plays 4rth) or 4rth position.Rahul or any other newbie,they are supposed to be unlike Dhoni.Isn't it???Means they can straight away start hitting out unlike Dhoni.That means they are qualified to bat at any position

after 4rth because of their ability to hit out from the first ball itself straight away.So why can't Dhoni be 4rth and Rahul or any other qualified newbie be at 5th??????

I think you are in mirage. Why don't you get it, Dhoni has lost his capability with age to play at any position. He came in 27th over and not after 40th over also people are not worrying about the loss but the way we have surrender is what concerns. We surrender the match in 27th over once Kohli got out. Even if Dhoni will come in 15th over it's not going to make any difference as he will eat up maximum number of balls by plaing dots in name of consolidation and then got out ( he may or may not be successful while try to hit out) . This will cause bigger damage to the team.  Thing is he is not able to rotate the strike whether it's spinner or pace bowler and last match was clear evidence for that. other than last 40 over no one expects anyone to hit out from first ball as it's not t20, so anyone who is capable enough to rotate strike freely should come after Kohli if we have lost early wkts. Dhoni is not suitable to bat at any position the sooner selector realize its better for the team. Also the AVG which you are talking about is again a delusion, an avg without impact has no meaning. Y'day inning show he averaged 39 but what was the impact of it zero when he came in RRR was around 8 and when he got out it was 27 , avi avg le k chatna hai kya.

[rtmohanlal]

7 minutes ago, raki05 said:

I think you are in mirage. Why don't you get it, Dhoni has lost his capability with age to play at any position. He came in 27th over and not after 40th over also people are not worrying about the loss but the way we have surrender is what concerns. We surrender the match in 27th over once Kohli got out. Even if Dhoni will come in 15th over it's not going to make any difference as he will eat up maximum number of balls by plaing dots in name of consolidation and then got out ( he may or may not be successful while try to hit out) . This will cause bigger damage to the team.  Thing is he is not able to rotate the strike whether it's spinner or pace bowler and last match was clear evidence for that. other than last 40 over no one expects anyone to hit out from first ball as it's not t20, so anyone who is capable enough to rotate strike freely should come after Kohli if we have lost early wkts. Dhoni is not suitable to bat at any position the sooner selector realize its better for the team. Also the AVG which you are talking about is again a delusion, an avg without impact has no meaning. Y'day inning show he averaged 39 but what was the impact of it zero when he came in RRR was around 8 and when he got out it was 27 , avi avg le k chatna hai kya.

First he needs to be tried in the match situation I was talking about.Other than that how can we tell??? If he proves to be  a failure in that situation too , then we all can agree that he is past his sell date. As I said, in the match situation like that in yesterday  in the 27th over, Dhoni shouldn't come to the crease.Only 2 wickets fell by 27th over implies the top 4 has taken the team score much further.Isn't it??? In such case a much agile newbie like Rahul who can stright away start rotating the strike and hitting  should come to the crease. Similarly  same avg: with slightly lesser str: rate in the last 2 years is not delusion. it is plain reality  & hence reflection of his performance.

 

In short the essence of what I said is to utilize the superb keeping expertise & captaincy tactics of Dhoni as far as it could be by 'channeling his slightly decreased batting ability in the most effective way as it could be'.

[raki05]

3 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

First he needs to be tried in the match situation I was talking about.Other than that how can we tell??? If he proves to be  a failure in that situation too , then we all can agree that he is past his sell date. As I said, in the match situation like that in yesterday  in the 27th over, Dhoni shouldn't come to the crease.Only 2 wickets fell by 27th over implies the top 4 has taken the team score much further.Isn't it??? In such case a much agile newbie like Rahul who can stright away start rotating the strike and hitting  should come to the crease. Similarly  same avg: with slightly lesser str: rate in the last 2 years is not delusion. it is plain reality  & hence reflection of his performance.

 

In short the essence of what I said is to utilize the superb keeping expertise & captaincy tactics of Dhoni as far as it could be by 'channeling his slightly decreased batting ability in the most effective way as it could be'.

 I think you misunderstood what i said. As you claim he can come up the order so please specify what order/position you are referring.  What i am saying is irrespective of order he has lost his capablity to rotate strike even against mediocre spinner and medium fast bowler. It was quite evident in last or match against WI where he had enough time for consolidation but all he did is played dot balls. You tell me when he came in 27th over how difficult it was to play with 80-85 SR from the start and he got out in 46th after after playing 4 dot balls in the same oveer, and still you are claiming he can come up the order and slog at the end.  As i said an AVG without impact has no meaning and i pointed out 2 example, one against WI  where he scored 50 and another y'day he scored 39 not bad but what was the significance/impact other than humiliation? There are plenty of other matches where he played selfishly like y'day, in past 2 years to  boost his avg  just to keep blind fan in delusion.

[mancalledsting]

1 hour ago, jalebi_bhai said:

You can now.

Good work 

[R!TTER]

Just now, rtmohanlal said:

First he needs to be tried in the match situation I was talking about.Other than that how can we tell??? If he proves to be  a failure in that situation too , then we all can agree that he is past his sell date. As I said, in the match situation like that in yesterday  in the 27th over, Dhoni shouldn't come to the crease.Only 2 wickets fell by 27th over implies the top 4 has taken the team score much further.Isn't it??? In such case a much agile newbie like Rahul who can stright away start rotating the strike and hitting  should come to the crease. Similarly  same avg: with slightly lesser str: rate in the last 2 years is not delusion. it is plain reality  & hence reflection of his performance.

 

In short the essence of what I said is to utilize the superb keeping expertise & captaincy tactics of Dhoni as far as it could be by 'channeling his slightly decreased batting ability in the most effective way as it could be'.

You don't fit useless players in such weird match situations, useful players play according to the pace of the game and adapt. Also when was the last time you saw Dhoni face pace bowlers, even in India he hides behind the likes of Yuvraj, Raina, Jadhav or Rahane! Why do you think Dhoni doesn't come out at 4, after his initial success at that position in the first 2-4 years of his career? Even in our 2008 CB triumph Dhoni came after a newbie Sharma, same in the WT20 a year back. Ever wondered why, because he can't handle pace! His record outside Asia is bad, like really bad. His delusional fans though, keep reminding us he's so great that we've never had a player like that before! I mean Viv would probably be rolling in his grave, as well as Bevan, if he was dead when mentioning Dhoni as the best finisher ever 

[velu]

2 hours ago, mancalledsting said:

I made the voting public so that people could declare themselves openly but somehow it’s become anonymised. I wonder why??

 

now can you see it ?

 

[velu]

5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You don't fit useless players in such weird match situations, useful players play according to the pace of the game and adapt. Also when was the last time you saw Dhoni face pace bowlers, even in India he hides behind the likes of Yuvraj, Raina, Jadhav or Rahane! Why do you think Dhoni doesn't come out at 4, after his initial success at that position in the first 2-4 years of his career? Even in our 2008 CB triumph Dhoni came after a newbie Sharma, same in the WT20 a year back. Ever wondered why, because he can't handle pace! His record outside Asia is bad, like really bad. His delusional fans though, keep reminding us he's so great that we've never had a player like that before! I mean Viv would probably be rolling in his grave, as well as Bevan, if he was dead when mentioning Dhoni as the best finisher ever 

 

dhoni is weak vs spin and have no apparent weakness against pace ..

dhoni dont play sweep and struggle to rotate strike against spinners

[rtmohanlal]

32 minutes ago, raki05 said:

 I think you misunderstood what i said. As you claim he can come up the order so please specify what order/position you are referring.  What i am saying is irrespective of order he has lost his capablity to rotate strike even against mediocre spinner and medium fast bowler. It was quite evident in last or match against WI where he had enough time for consolidation but all he did is played dot balls. You tell me when he came in 27th over how difficult it was to play with 80-85 SR from the start and he got out in 46th after after playing 4 dot balls in the same oveer, and still you are claiming he can come up the order and slog at the end.  As i said an AVG without impact has no meaning and i pointed out 2 example, one against WI  where he scored 50 and another y'day he scored 39 not bad but what was the significance/impact other than humiliation? There are plenty of other matches where he played selfishly like y'day, in past 2 years to  boost his avg  just to keep blind fan in delusion.

not saying on the basis of his inns that happend in 2nd one day vs England.I agree, that was very strange.But his over all record in his last 2 years makes me feel he is worth a place in the team if utilized accordingly.you are quoting 1 inns vs Windies  but what about several other inns he  played his part superbly  in victories???Keep in mind no body can perform in each and every match.We can't blame him for the incompetencies  of others. He is too much a multi dimensional player to get neglected just because of a slight blip in one of his 3 disciplines.Any way each to their own.

 

[R!TTER]

Just now, velu said:

 

dhoni is weak vs spin and have no apparent weakness against pace ..

dhoni dont play sweep and struggle to rotate strike against spinners

Dhoni is better against spin, anyone who's followed his career closely knows that. He's nearly a tailender against good pacers, especially outside Asia where the balls move & bounce appreciably more.

How did you miss his recent IPL stint, surely Indian conditions are much more conducive for spin? Also he was absolutely playing for a not out, 100% confirmed.

Edited July 16, 2018 by R!TTER

[velu]

3 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Dhoni is better against spin, anyone who's followed his career closely knows that. He's nearly a tailender against good pacers, especially outside Asia where the balls move & bounce appreciably more. How did you miss his recent IPL, surely Indian conditions are much more conducive for spin? Also he was absolutely playing for a not out, 100% confirmed.

 

i followed his career  .. he never had any issues with bounce or pace , still one of the best pullers in our side 

hits genuine pacers and trundlers alike .. against moving ball everyone struggles

 

and in this IPL too  he struggled against spinners 

 

[rtmohanlal]

13 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You don't fit useless players in such weird match situations, useful players play according to the pace of the game and adapt. Also when was the last time you saw Dhoni face pace bowlers, even in India he hides behind the likes of Yuvraj, Raina, Jadhav or Rahane! Why do you think Dhoni doesn't come out at 4, after his initial success at that position in the first 2-4 years of his career? Even in our 2008 CB triumph Dhoni came after a newbie Sharma, same in the WT20 a year back. Ever wondered why, because he can't handle pace! His record outside Asia is bad, like really bad. His delusional fans though, keep reminding us he's so great that we've never had a player like that before! I mean Viv would probably be rolling in his grave, as well as Bevan, if he was dead when mentioning Dhoni as the best finisher ever 

 

13 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You don't fit useless players in such weird match situations, useful players play according to the pace of the game and adapt. Also when was the last time you saw Dhoni face pace bowlers, even in India he hides behind the likes of Yuvraj, Raina, Jadhav or Rahane! Why do you think Dhoni doesn't come out at 4, after his initial success at that position in the first 2-4 years of his career? Even in our 2008 CB triumph Dhoni came after a newbie Sharma, same in the WT20 a year back. Ever wondered why, because he can't handle pace! His record outside Asia is bad, like really bad. His delusional fans though, keep reminding us he's so great that we've never had a player like that before! I mean Viv would probably be rolling in his grave, as well as Bevan, if he was dead when mentioning Dhoni as the best finisher ever 

'even in India he hides behind the likes of Yuvraj, Raina, Jadhav or Rahane! '  ohhhh. ..........i forgot ..... in that world cup final in 2011 ,it was you who came  before Yuvraj and won the match for India, not Dhoni....   

And again, Dhoni's primary discipine is keeping, and he has been brilliant in his secondary discipline batting too. As if there have been lots and lots of wicket keeper batsmen who were such high calibre all round batsmen in all conditions.........

[raki05]

13 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

not saying on the basis of his inns that happend in 2nd one day vs England.I agree, that was very strange.But his over all record in his last 2 years makes me feel he is worth a place in the team if utilized accordingly.you are quoting 1 inns vs Windies  but what about several other inns he  played his part superbly  in victories???Keep in mind no body can perform in each and every match.We can't blame him for the incompetencies  of others. He is too much a multi dimensional player to get neglected just because of a slight blip in one of his 3 disciplines.Any way each to their own.

 

I highly doubt that there is several/any where he has played superbly in Indian victory. There is one such match where he made century but then in that match Yuvraj outscore him now that the level of batsmenship of Dhoni where Yuvraj and Bhuvikumar is outscoring him in avg and sr in case of a need arise. Also we all know how those inning came to bite our back when we really needed them in ct17  final. BTW can you name few of those superbly played inning.

[rtmohanlal]

1 minute ago, raki05 said:

I highly doubt that there is several/any where he has played superbly in Indian victory. There is one such match where he made century but then in that match Yuvraj outscore him now that the level of batsmenship of Dhoni where Yuvraj and Bhuvikumar is outscoring him in avg and sr in case of a need arise. Also we all know how those inning came to bite our back when we really needed them in ct17  final. BTW can you name few of those superbly played inning.

even in the last 2 years , a few of them . For instance his partnership with Bhuvi in SL , his inns in WI, his 85 or so vs AUS etc etc. That's

why his avg: still remains 50+ even in last 2 years. Add his still brilliant wicket keeping &  astute captaincy tactics he is still worth his place in the team. The way he played in London was strange...agreed , but for others incompetency we can't blame him

[raki05]

12 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

 

'even in India he hides behind the likes of Yuvraj, Raina, Jadhav or Rahane! '  ohhhh. ..........i forgot ..... in that world cup final in 2011 ,it was you who came  before Yuvraj and won the match for India, not Dhoni....   

And again, Dhoni's primary discipine is keeping, and he has been brilliant in his secondary discipline batting too. As if there have been lots and lots of wicket keeper batsmen who were such high calibre all round batsmen in all conditions.........

Was dhoni tagged best finisher or best keeper from start of his day. Its really stupid to say we don't have any high caliber keeper or batsmen while you are comparing any teenager to a 40 year old grown ass man. And How do you know until you try them and also it will take time before they will start performing. I find it surprising that all along we have this one inning in final to showcase every where. Can you name 10 inning in his entire 300+ career where he played superb knock against SA/AUS/NZ/ENG in overseas condition. 

[R!TTER]

Just now, velu said:

 

i followed his career  .. he never had any issues with bounce or pace , still one of the best pullers in our side 

hits genuine pacers and trundlers alike .. against moving ball everyone struggles

 

and in this IPL too  he struggled against spinners 

 

Some fan you are 

Edited July 16, 2018 by R!TTER