Cheers to the two spinners in England theory

[speedheat]

Don't think English batters are that weak against spinners like they are in Odis or t20is.

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, R!TTER said:

They should've played 2 spinners, instead of fake A/R at Edgbaston. Bow they're doing the opposite, always reactionary and chasing the game.

Fake alrounder has bowled better than Han your two spinners and this pitch is less helpful than the last game.

[Switchblade]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

Yes ... but Koach should arm him with better facts and reasoning.

Koach had much important things to do had to get ready as Saturday night partying was more important than talk about tactics and strategies 

[rkt.india]

Just now, speedheat said:

Don't think English batters are that weak against spinners like they are in Odis or t20is.

In ODIs, you have protection on boundaries. Not in tests where bad deliveries go for boundaries more often than not.

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

But we don't have a spinning alrounder.

Ashwin and Jadeja.

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

Fake alrounder has bowled better than Han your two spinners and this pitch is less helpful than the last game.

You keep bringing in useless arguments to score useless pints. What did the fake A/R do in last test? Jadeja would've bowled more and likely picked up crucial wickets!

 

So, I'm talking about the last game! Did that fake A/R take wickets when we needed them the most, how many did he take before Waokes got to his ton here? Keep parading his useless stats everywhere, if that makes you feel better!

[speedheat]

9 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

In ODIs, you have protection on boundaries. Not in tests where bad deliveries go for boundaries more often than not.

Yes and in tests you always have time to workout somebody like say cooldeep.

Edited August 12, 2018 by speedheat

[speedheat]

8 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

You keep bringing in useless arguments to score useless pints. What did the fake A/R do in last test? Jadeja would've bowled more and likely picked up crucial wickets!

 

So, I'm talking about the last game! Did that fake A/R take wickets when we needed them the most, how many did he take before Waokes got to his ton here? Keep parading his useless stats everywhere, if that makes you feel better!

Hardik is not our main strike bowler you don't expect him to run through sides, still he bowled well and better than ishant yesterday, picked up 2wickets, don't think jadeja would have been effective here, not much turn was on offer, should see what ashwin has bowled 17 overs just one maiden and 0 wickets with 68 runs.

[R!TTER]

1 minute ago, speedheat said:

Hardik is not our main strike bowler you don't expect him to run through sides, still he bowled well and better than ishant yesterday, picked up 2wickets, don't think jadeja would have been effective here, not much turn was on offer, should see what ashwin has bowled 17 overs just one maiden and 0 wickets with 68 runs.

So has he bowled better than what a main pacer, with swing, would've done on this wicket?

 

I was talking about Jadeja for last game, however I'd still take Jadeja in most places than Hardik, not necessarily at rain affected Lords though.

 

There's a reason why mediocre FC players have rarely made it big in tests, if ever, that too in nearly 150 years of test cricket. What makes you think that Hardik will ever cut it? He's bowled in 10 innings on the most pacer friendly surfaces ever, what are his returns?

[Nikhil_cric]

You don't play 2 spinners in tests in SENA countries even if it is Durban/ Sydney. It is a weak choice and shows defensiveness. You pay 3 quicks and if possible a seam bowling all-rounder. Nor was it necessary to select 3 spinners in a squad when you already have Ashwin and jadeja with proven test credentials. Kuldeep is good in Lois but then aggressive captain/coach select him for tests. What logic is this? In SENA countries , it's the batsmen and the fast bowlers who win you matches. Spinners are used only to rotate the fast bowlers and have a holding role. Any extra wickets they give are a bonus. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Nikhil_cric

[Stan AF]

 

54 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

Quote

People wanted kuldeep over Ashwin in first test. 

Yes and that golden opportunity to win the 1st test along with it is gone.

Quote

And it's not that toss happened after the rain.

Yes. I was talking about the fan's reasoning here for picking 2 spinners. But once rain happened kohli/coach should have known better to pick seamers.

 

[R!TTER]

9 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

You don't play 2 spinners in tests in SENA countries even if it is Durban/ Sydney. It is a weak choice and shows defensiveness. You pay 3 quicks and if possible a seam bowling all-rounder. Nor was it necessary to select 3 spinners in a squad when you already have Ashwin and jadeja with proven test credentials. Kuldeep is good in Lois but then aggressive captain/coach select him for tests. What logic is this? In SENA countries , it's the batsmen and the fast bowlers who win you matches. Spinners are used only to rotate the fast bowlers and have a holding role. Any extra wickets they give are a bonus. 

Aus played 2 spinners at Sydney vs Pak 2 years back, this is backwards logic what you're talking about. Play your best bowlers - that's it, our two best bowlers are Jadeja and Ashwin. WI won in India on the back of pacers, not Roger Harper, so did Aus and SA. On this pitch an extra seamer would've helped, but the first day pretty much shut the game for us.

[Lannister]

We missed one more pacer in the last match and two more in this match. Just goes to show their zero thinking ability when it comes to reading match conditionsb and BCCI is spending millions of dollars on this sorry management. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Nikhil_cric said:

You don't play 2 spinners in tests in SENA countries even if it is Durban/ Sydney. It is a weak choice and shows defensiveness. You pay 3 quicks and if possible a seam bowling all-rounder.

 

Starting 1989  ( the year we started producing multiple pacers of decent pace )  ... Most of our top bowlers in SENA countries have been pacers.

 

8 pacers out of the top 8 bowlers

9 pacers out of the top 10 bowlers

13 pacers out of the top 15 bowlers

 

This despite us having better spinners then pacers barring the last 3 years.

 

Bowling averages of our top spinners in SENA ... Kumble 37, Harbhajan 40, Jadeja 46, Ashwin 46

 

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	BBM	Ave	Econ	SR	5	10
JJ Bumrah	2018-2018	3	6	112.1	16	353	14	5/54	7/111	25.21	3.14	48.0	1	0
B Kumar	2014-2018	8	13	281.5	72	877	30	6/82	6/103	29.23	3.11	56.3	2	0
P Kumar	2011-2011	3	5	158.3	38	443	15	5/106	7/169	29.53	2.79	63.4	1	0
Z Khan	2001-2014	30	53	1129.1	224	3745	119	5/29	9/134	31.47	3.31	56.9	6	0
BKV Prasad	1996-2000	11	20	477.0	108	1385	44	5/60	10/153	31.47	2.90	65.0	3	1
J Srinath	1991-2001	22	42	1030.1	219	3054	89	6/76	8/104	34.31	2.96	69.4	4	0
Mohammed Shami	2013-2018	15	28	535.3	82	1971	57	5/28	6/74	34.57	3.68	56.3	2	0
S Sreesanth	2006-2011	12	21	438.0	76	1602	44	5/40	8/99	36.40	3.65	59.7	2	0
A Kumble	1990-2008	35	67	1886.1	394	5224	141	8/141	12/279	37.04	2.76	80.2	5	1
N Kapil Dev	1990-1994	16	30	704.5	167	1766	47	5/97	8/163	37.57	2.50	89.9	2	0
RP Singh	2007-2011	8	14	244.2	42	972	25	5/59	7/117	38.88	3.97	58.6	1	0
Harbhajan Singh	1998-2011	19	34	799.2	108	2476	62	7/120	7/102	39.93	3.09	77.3	3	0
IK Pathan	2003-2008	4	7	137.0	13	495	12	3/54	5/117	41.25	3.61	68.5	0	0
I Sharma	2008-2018	31	52	1144.0	185	3973	95	7/74	9/162	41.82	3.47	72.2	4	0
UT Yadav	2011-2018	8	14	260.3	32	1175	28	5/93	7/176	41.96	4.51	55.8	1	0
AB Agarkar	1999-2004	13	23	439.3	73	1645	38	6/41	8/160	43.28	3.74	69.3	1	0
RA Jadeja	2013-2014	7	12	307.2	57	831	18	6/138	6/154	46.16	2.70	102.4	1	0
R Ashwin	2011-2018	13	21	557.4	84	1762	38	4/62	7/121	46.36	3.15	88.0	0	0
SC Ganguly	1996-2008	32	32	178.5	33	607	13	3/71	3/54	46.69	3.39	82.5	0	0
SLV Raju	1990-1996	10	17	429.0	124	936	20	3/11	5/132	46.80	2.18	128.7	0	0
SR Tendulkar	1990-2012	63	51	226.5	22	856	18	2/7	2/15	47.55	3.77	75.6	0	0
M Prabhakar	1990-1993	15	29	672.0	140	2005	41	5/101	6/217	48.90	2.98	98.3	1	0
AS Wassan	1990-1990	4	6	118.4	16	504	10	4/108	5/188	50.40	4.24	71.2	0	0
ND Hirwani	1990-1990	6	10	322.0	69	895	15	4/174	5/226	59.66	2.77	128.8	0	0
A Nehra	2001-2003	8	15	249.5	38	956	16	3/34	5/54	59.75	3.82	93.6	0	0
VR Aaron	2014-2014	4	6	119.1	7	612	10	3/97	3/97	61.20	5.13	71.5	0	0

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition=1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=5;orderby=bowling_average;qualmin1=10;qualval1=wickets;spanmin2=01+Jan+1989;spanval2=span;team=6;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

1 hour ago, R!TTER said:

Aus played 2 spinners at Sydney vs Pak 2 years back, this is backwards logic what you're talking about. Play your best bowlers - that's it, our two best bowlers are Jadeja and Ashwin. WI won in India on the back of pacers, not Roger Harper, so did Aus and SA. On this pitch an extra seamer would've helped, but the first day pretty much shut the game for us.

No it is not backwards logic. How so? Windies played quicks in India because they don't have quality spinners and India were good players of spin. In SENA countries , visiting spinners do much worse than visiting quicks. It's a no brainer to play the extra fast bowler. Unless you have warne and Murali in the same team, it makes zero sense to play 2 spinners in such conditions. Quality fast bowlers will always do well in Asia or anywhere really . No need to play an extra spinner and teams like SA,WI and OZ have done well with that strategy. 

[R!TTER]

Just now, Nikhil_cric said:

No it is not backwards logic. How so? Windies played quicks in India because they don't have quality spinners and India were good players of spin. In SENA countries , visiting spinners do much worse than visiting quicks. It's a no brainer to play the extra fast bowler. Unless you have warne and Murali in the same team, it makes zero sense to play 2 spinners in such conditions. Quality fast bowlers will always do well in Asia or anywhere really . No need to play an extra spinner and teams like SA,WI and OZ have done well with that strategy. 

Ultimately it depends on the pitch, but in NZ 2002 Harbhajan picked up regular wickets in the 2 tests. Would a 4th seamer do much better than him? Check his stats, Leeds 2002 again 2 spinners. On this pitch I'd agree an extra pacer would be useful, on the last track where the ball was spinning? What did the so called A/R do in that game, in Centurion or Joburg?

 

This game was lost pretty much when we lost the toss, not the case in Edgbaston though. If there was no Kumar or Bumrah, Jadeja was the next best bowler we had for those conditions.

Edited August 12, 2018 by R!TTER

[Nikhil_cric]

5 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Ultimately it depends on the pitch, but in NZ 2002 Harbhajan picked up regular wickets in the 2 test. Would a 4th seamer do much better than him? Check his stats, Leeds 2002 again 2 spinners. On this pitch I'd agree an extra pacer would be useful, on the last track where the ball was spinning? What did the so called A/R do in that game, in Centurion or Joburg?

 

This game was lost pretty much when we lost the toss, not the case in Edgbaston though. If there was no Kumar or Bumrah, Jadeja was the next best bowler we had for those conditions.

Agree to disagree I guess. I would play a second spinner in SENA countries only if they are better than all seamers available in the country. With the fast bowling talent pool we have right now, it is actually a damning indictment of our selection policy that we have to resort to 2 spinners anywhere apart from Asia/WI

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, R!TTER said:

You keep bringing in useless arguments to score useless pints. What did the fake A/R do in last test? Jadeja would've bowled more and likely picked up crucial wickets!

 

So, I'm talking about the last game! Did that fake A/R take wickets when we needed them the most, how many did he take before Waokes got to his ton here? Keep parading his useless stats everywhere, if that makes you feel better!

He barely bowled 60 balls in first game. Was not given bowling in second innings. Because he is a fifth bowling option. When your main bowlers do well, you don't bowl with bowler much. Here he is used as third seamer and he showed his worth when others taken apart. Don't think Jadeja too would have gotten many overs last game very much like Pandya when your four bowlers are doing well.

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, R!TTER said:

So has he bowled better than what a main pacer, with swing, would've done on this wicket?

 

I was talking about Jadeja for last game, however I'd still take Jadeja in most places than Hardik, not necessarily at rain affected Lords though.

 

There's a reason why mediocre FC players have rarely made it big in tests, if ever, that too in nearly 150 years of test cricket. What makes you think that Hardik will ever cut it? He's bowled in 10 innings on the most pacer friendly surfaces ever, what are his returns?

Yes, I don't think Umesh or even shardul would have bowled better than what he did in this test.

 

Regarding mediocre FC, he hasn't played much so how do you conclude he is a mediocre FC. Also can you tell me what were the fc records of Viv richards, wasim Akram or Michael Clarke when they debuted?

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, express bowling said:

Ashwin and Jadeja.

They are bowling alrounders. Second spinner must be a batting alrounder to bat at 6/7. Otherwise batting becomes very thin