Hypothetical Thread - Could Ind have defeated Aus side with Warner and Smith ?

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, maniac said:

He was the top run getter for them in India and Srilanka which were some of the trickiest pitches.

We dropped half a dozen catches of him at Pune. He flopped in SA bjg time on flatter pitches than what we had.

Edited January 1, 2019 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, Pollack said:

LoL Smith is a freak. He would have manhandled Ishant, Umesh, Shami, Ashwin and Jadeja. Don't know about Bumrah though.  One thing for sure winning would have been at least twice as difficult as now. Also note one of two wins was very close even without Smith.

Yeah, like he did in SA averaging 23. Don't compare this Indian attack to 2015 attack. This is an improved attack, more disciplined and less loose balls and pitches this series have not be as flat as they were in 2015. Smith is an FTB.

[Nikola]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

What if Shaw was fit  ?

 

One of the biggest issues we have had in Australia is opener woes.  

 

If Shaw was there, this could have been totally different.

 

And I don't think Warner would have done well on the slow pitches in Adelaide or Melbourne or with the ball moving in Perth.  He flourishes on faster tracks with true bounce and little movement.

 

Moreover  Smith and Warner post Sandpaper scam and ban,  may not be the same batsmen for quite some time.

So you are doubting warner in his own conditions but know that shaw would have scored on those pitches easily.

[SK_IH]

24 minutes ago, Nikola said:

So you are doubting warner in his own conditions but know that shaw would have scored on those pitches easily.

was about to post same. 

[Vijy]

Hard to say. Smith and Warner have scored tons of roads, but the pitches we got were very different from the previous tour. If we had Shaw and indulged in correct selections (looking at Perth), I think the same result may have followed.

[MechEng]

On 12/31/2018 at 12:48 AM, mancalledsting said:

Interestingly, the last series Warner and Smith played in South Africa, they were largely nullified as batsmen as South Africa showed the blueprint for bowling to them.

 

Steve Smith: keep tight 4th stump line and don’t give him anything to work away on leg

 

David Warner: right handers should stick to over the wicket line and he’s vulnerable whereas he kills you when you come round the wicket.

 

i remember holding on commentary asking why people never used these tactics before.

 

also I don’t fancy either smith or Warner in challenging conditions such as this series. They tend to flourish on flat Australian tracks. 

 

So they were about to be exposed anyway.

 

if you don’t believe me, here are their batting stats from that series:

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;home_or_away=2;opposition=3;spanmin1=01+Jan+2018;spanval1=span;team=2;template=results;type=batting

Interesting, so basically don't bowl inswingers at all to Smith. 

 

Warner is evem more interesting if he's vulnerable from over the wicket. For other top lefties like Cook, they are far more vulnerbale to right handers from around the wicket.

[AmreekanDesi]

Doubt it

 

but we wouldn’t have been rolled over either 

[Stan AF]

Smith and warner are australia's kohli and pujara. except warner is more like a quicker pujara. 

[mancalledsting]

11 hours ago, MechEng said:

Interesting, so basically don't bowl inswingers at all to Smith. 

 

Warner is evem more interesting if he's vulnerable from over the wicket. For other top lefties like Cook, they are far more vulnerbale to right handers from around the wicket.

yes and once South Africa found the weakness- they wouldn't let it go. always felt these two had some technical deficiencies

[Adi BB]

Tricky one but maybe yes !

The Melbourne test is a sure shot Indian win even if Australia had smiths and Warner because 443 was a massive score on that track and we did the hard part by resisting the aussie attack,Indian team is a different beast when they have a score to defend .

Perth would have been an even worse defeat .

Now adelaide is the tricky one ,Australia might have scored 300 odd in the first innings with a Smith special but I really don't know if they could have chased a probable 260 odd target even with smith and Warner. 

Indian bowling has  been class in this year ,guys like faf,Amla,root,cook,bairstow,khwaja shat their pants so..

[zen]

If Aus wins at Syd, you can probably deduce that they would have done better with a stronger side 

 

For Ind, injuries have been a concern so have not been able to put its best 11 too but its key players (Pujara, Kohli, Bumrah and Shami) have played all tests so far 

Edited January 2, 2019 by zen

[Adi BB]

On 1/1/2019 at 9:35 AM, raki05 said:

We have all seen how much diff AB has made during sa series , singlehandedly won the first 2 matches for SA.

That was because they were batting first,under scoreboard pressure and against sucha a quality Indian attack ,its not the same as the above .

[zen]

16 minutes ago, Adi BB said:

That was because they were batting first,under scoreboard pressure and against sucha a quality Indian attack ,its not the same as the above .

If Smith was captain, who knows, Aus could have  batted first in all 3 tests so far

 

For e.g. what many do is abc scored a 100, xyz scored 0. So if mno played instead of xyz and scored 50, the team would have got 150 from these two. But who knows that in the match if mno played, he could have run abc out and threw his wkt away 

 

if one variable changes, other variables can change too

 

In such scenarios, ideally, we have to take a call looking at pros and cons of both sides with their best 11 (rather than simply substituting scorecard numbers)

Edited January 2, 2019 by zen

[chewy]

Sandpaper was probably the bigger worry than Warner and Smith

If Australia bowlers had access to sandpaper like in past then no way India stood a chance especially vs Starc's sandpapered reverse swinging ball

[Vijy]

3 hours ago, chewy said:

Sandpaper was probably the bigger worry than Warner and Smith

If Australia bowlers had access to sandpaper like in past then no way India stood a chance especially vs Starc's sandpapered reverse swinging ball

this is exactly why smith, warner and bancroft are so missed. once they retun, ozzies should be able to scale their "great" heights as before.