Was Vishwanath a better batsmen against pace than any other Indian batsmen?

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, Vilander said:

thread police have a new constable.

 

 

If you have nothing meaningful to post stop quoting me. Carry on with your drivel but don't tag or quote me. Last post from my side, putting you on ignore so don't bother. 

[Vilander]

Away matches against Aus, Eng, WI, Pak, SA,NZ

 

 

Minow WI removed. Cutoff 2006

 

 

by total runs

 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

If you have nothing meaningful to post stop quoting me. Carry on with your drivel but don't tag or quote me. Last post from my side, putting you on ignore so don't bother. 

ooi tere meter kyun goom gaya ? 

[Vilander]

 

 

SO per stats its 

1, Dravid

2, Gavaskar

3, Amarnath

4, Tendulkar

5, Kohli.

 

Given the bowlers reputation ( of WI and Aus pace bowling then)

 

It could be 

 

1, Gavaskar / Amarnath

2, Dravid

3, Tendulkar

4, Kohli

 

 

But then it gets difficult.

 

Wasim,Waqar,Courtney,Curtly,Mcgrath,Donald,(Murli,Warne,Vettori)..

 

Wonder if Dravid and Sachin faced equally demanding bowlers.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Vilander

[Vilander]

fark..how lucky was India to have Dravid and Tendulkar ( and Laksman) playing together? how **** was our bowling to make nothing out of it.  Today's bowling unit would have BR'd every team inside their own homes if these two played together with them.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Vilander

[vvvslaxman]

 

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

fark..how lucky was India to have Dravid and Tendulkar ( and Laksman) playing together? how **** was our bowling to make nothing out of it.  Today's bowling unit would have BR'd every team inside their own homes if these two played together with them.

Current line up is by far the worst batting line up against run of the mill spinners that too off spinners. As an Indian fan if there is one type of bowling i never ever bothered was, it was off spin including Murali. These guys  just suck.

[zen]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

Away matches against Aus, Eng, WI, Pak, SA,NZ

Minow WI removed. Cutoff 2006

by total runs

Note -> One should not do analysis based on number of runs / wkts. Once the minimum criteria is defined say for e.g. 1000 / 2000 runs and 50 / 100 wkts, along with the quality of opposition and/or matches played, you would go by averages (and SR if required) 

Edited February 12, 2019 by zen

[Dil Dil India]

Tendulkar was our best batsman against pace - only Gavaskar is really even in the discussion. Kohli isn't quite there defensively and Dravid wasn't quite there either despite what poyz fans tell us.

 

I also find it amusing that Vilander keeps casting aspersions on peoples' nationalities. And yet people like him run with their tails between their legs when called out on it (like that Stradler or whichever simpleton it was who got exposed the other day). 

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, Gollum said:

Victor Trumper had a test average of 39.

Trumper would make All Time Australia XI ahead of Hayden, Langer, Lawry, Simpson, Taylor.

#Justsaying

Greatness must show in average as well.  At times, perception drives how I see players rather than the reality.  If he was such a good batsman against pace, he should be averaging far more, at least 50-60. This is just a perception driven thread. Stats don't show that.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Dil Dil India said:

Tendulkar was our best batsman against pace - only Gavaskar is really even in the discussion. Kohli isn't quite there defensively and Dravid wasn't quite there either despite what poyz fans tell us.

 

I also find it amusing that Vilander keeps casting aspersions on peoples' nationalities. And yet people like him run with their tails between their legs when called out on it (like that Stradler or whichever simpleton it was who got exposed the other day). 

True

[rkt.india]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Current line up is by far the worst batting line up against run of the mill spinners that too off spinners. As an Indian fan if there is one type of bowling i never ever bothered was, it was off spin including Murali. These guys  just suck.

And Murli has 97 wickets against India and he averages 20s in SL against India. There is a reason fab 4 could not win a test series in SL. Just another perception driven post. If they were so good, they would all be averaging 100s in test cricket and winning us every series. Currently, we only have two batsmen who can be compared to those, Kohli and Pujara.

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, Gollum said:

Vishwanath wasn't consistent and neither was he a run machine, he was more like Laxman...a crisis man who had some valuable understated contributions almost every series not necessarily mammoth scores, and a memorable ATG knock every 2 years or so. Look at his great knocks....there is no pattern. As @Jimmy Cliff said he was an elite match-winner. 

 

And you can't compare him with Sunny or Sachin, those guys had a selfish streak in their batting (like other ATG peers) which is not a bad thing at all...those guys wanted to score many runs and break records. Vishy was not like that, where there was no danger to the team's chances and where he could remain not out he would play an extravagant shot at 30, 40 just for the thrill of it, the concept of staying not out and boosting stats was alien to his philosophy. He had only 10 NOs in 91 tests, Sunny despite being an opener had 16 NOs in 125 tests. 

So an inconsistent batsmen who failed more often than succeeded against pace can't be called the best against pace. It's the consistency that matters.

[Harsh Thakor]

14 hours ago, Gollum said:

'Viswanath the greatest batsman' - Gavaskar

 

Gundappa Viswanath: Sunil Gavaskar’s Favourite Cricketer

 

Lillee rates Vishy higher than Gavaskar

 

 

Absolutely

[Harsh Thakor]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

So an inconsistent batsmen who failed more often than succeeded against pace can't be called the best against pace. It's the consistency that matters.

.The point is the runs Vishwanath amassed against the genuine pace bowlers in comparison to others and his strike rate and contribution to result of game against them.Read what Michael Holdings says about Vishy .Dravid and Tendulkar had much more opportunities against medium pacers and minnow teams .On fast wickets he overshadowed Gavaskar like at Madras in 1978-79 .Vishy won more games against genuine pace than Sunny.The likes of Dravid and Tendulkar thrived more on the great fast-medium pacers.Look at Vishy in the 4th innings of tests or in a crisis

[Harsh Thakor]

18 hours ago, rkt.india said:

It's all relative. This is the biggest reason comparing is difficult.

I agree absolutely in the choice of Mohinder Amarnath in 1983 series in Carribean-best ever against express  pace then.Still Vishy wa s the more talented overall or even Vengsarkar.

[Harsh Thakor]

14 hours ago, Gollum said:

Vishwanath wasn't consistent and neither was he a run machine, he was more like Laxman...a crisis man who had some valuable understated contributions almost every series not necessarily mammoth scores, and a memorable ATG knock every 2 years or so. Look at his great knocks....there is no pattern. As @Jimmy Cliff said he was an elite match-winner. 

 

And you can't compare him with Sunny or Sachin, those guys had a selfish streak in their batting (like other ATG peers) which is not a bad thing at all...those guys wanted to score many runs and break records. Vishy was not like that, where there was no danger to the team's chances and where he could remain not out he would play an extravagant shot at 30, 40 just for the thrill of it, the concept of staying not out and boosting stats was alien to his philosophy. He had only 10 NOs in 91 tests, Sunny despite being an opener had 16 NOs in 125 tests. 

Perfect explanation.Vishy was the most unselfish of batsmen who never chased records .Significant that he averaged 6 run smore in games won than Sunny and greater percentage aggregate of runs.Laxman was the the Vishwanath of his era,overshadowing even Sachin against  pace and in 4th innings.It is worth measuring the no or runs Vishy scored against the genuine quickies compared to Sunny,Dravid or Sachin.Dravid and Tendulkar had the advantage of playing against minnows and more fast-medium bowlers and in an ear when there was protective headgear.Vishy turmed or won more games against genuine pace than Sunny or Sachin.

[Harsh Thakor]

18 hours ago, Gollum said:

Victor Trumper had a test average of 39.

Trumper would make All Time Australia XI ahead of Hayden, Langer, Lawry, Simpson, Taylor.

#Justsaying

absolutely corrrect.

[Harsh Thakor]

12 hours ago, Vilander said:

Away matches against Aus, Eng, WI, Pak, SA,NZ

 

 

Minow WI removed. Cutoff 2006

 

 

by total runs

 

 

 

 

The vital statistics are the runs amassed by the batsmen against the genuine fast bowlers.Nedd a chart revealing the run sscored by Tendulkar,Gavaskar,Dravid etc against the express pace bowlers.Also analzye their influence on result of matches.Here Vishy rates highly.

[Harsh Thakor]

15 hours ago, Vilander said:

it's between Sunny and Amarnath. 

Greats no doubt but not as agressive or dominating as Vishwanath or Vengsrakar against genuine pace.Never also forget great innings by Vengsarkar staging West Indies averaging over 50 with 6 c enturies.Vishy turned more games against great pace than Sunny or Jimmy.

[Straight Drive]

Voting so far:

 

Sachin - 8

Sunny - 4

 

I thought this would be close between Sunny and Sachin, infact i thought Sunny would win this. Fair enoyugh though.