Opposition, libtards opposing Citizenship Amendment Bill

[Dil Dil India]

On 12/11/2019 at 4:49 AM, Muloghonto said:

The idea of India historically and culturally is quite different from colonial and post colonial hangover idea of India. India has always been plural society for those who are NOT aggressive towards us. I shall point out that at no point in time was ANY North Indian or South Indian society friendly towards Muslim kingdoms or empire, until the very end when Vijayanagara HAD to be friendly with Muslims for being surrounded by them and completely dependent on Arabian Sea trade with them. 

I care about the India that is India Today - post 1947. Don't care about what happened centuries ago. If we go back far enough there's no India, even further there are no people. If that's your view good for you.

On 12/11/2019 at 4:49 AM, Muloghonto said:

 

 

We are exactly in the same scenario as Israel with worse atrocities committed against us historically: surrounded by enemy and aggressive ideologies and we are the LAST ONE LEFT STANDING regarding truly native and original religon and culture combo. Only difference is we are 100 times bigger than Israel but our demographics are also pointed negative related to our hostile ones. So an Israel-like immigration policy is justified. 

I care more about India and Indians - you care about religious identity. This relates to the point above.

On 12/11/2019 at 4:49 AM, Muloghonto said:

Irrelevant . Intelligence agencies the world over sees immigrants of any type as potential threat. Even tourists. That’s their job. Our job is to not be seclusionary just because our guard dog ( intelligence agencies) always bark at unknown

people.

Lol. Yes Intelligence inputs are irrelevant. Some random turnips sitting in USA and handing out certificates of deshbhakti is what we need.

On 12/11/2019 at 4:49 AM, Muloghonto said:

 

 

[Dil Dil India]

21 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Ok, I will humor you. I downvoted you only because you kept calling asylum seekers as leeches. Given that you want a debate on it, I will humor you.

Much more constructive than troll voting people for having a different view, thanks.

 

I consider all illegal immigrants leeches. Rightly or wrongly, these guys ended up in the neighbouring countries post partition - not our headache now. We have 50% + of our population BPL. We are not Sweden or Norway.

21 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Every country has a immigration policy and asylum seekers. Some migrate illegally. Illegals impact more than asylum seekers as they are ready to work for peanuts, locals get their jobs impacted. BD domestic workers are a menace even in places like Bengaluru. If we have legals immigrants, then we can plan their settlements more effectively.  BTW, even Bhutan Buddhists persecute Hindus migrating from Nepal. It is a big problem for those communities and are asking for help.

Kick the illegal BD workers out. My problem is you are only kicking the illegal BD Muslims out, kick out the BD Hindus too.

21 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Hindus (and other minorities) in our neighboring Islamic countries are persecuted beyond imagination. Listen to their stories. The way they are coming into India in the first opportunity is a sorry state of affairs in Pakistan. As India agreed for partition, these downtrodden were left back in hell for good. It is our civilizational responsibility to welcome them back. Issues like unemployment, economy are going to be priorities, if they are niot taken care of then people will vote out governments

We have to start with our own countrymen first. Do we have infinite resources to right every wrong that's happened in the world. Let's cut out the talk - how many Pak non muslims are YOU willing to host in your house? That's what I thought...

21 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

. But, these deeds were part of the BJP manifesto even before the elections and now they have numbers to get the bills passed. At least now, India has some perspective about who they are, instead of being zombies in a secular, socialist, communist, Islamist world. CAB and NRC might not be encorced, but atleast we have some connection established to our Indic roots.

Just because they were part of the manifesto it doesn't make it right. India is a secular country, period.

21 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

Believing that wrongs of History didn't happen (Negating history) just so that peacefuls are pampered, is a dangerous strategy. That is the reason for Hindutva being popular now. We are right of center, and that is the dharmic idea of India.   India cannot get rid of 250 million Muslims. They have to accept reality of living with a largely docile majority and come into mainstream. This arabization of Muslims is the cause of conflict, not because of Hindutva RW. Indian Muslims should follow Indonesia on how to respect and identify their dharmic roots, 

If we keep quarreling over history, we will never progress. We need to do what is best for our country - country of 1.3 billion, a poor country whose growth rate has gone down to 4.5%. Taking in ungrateful leeches simply to assuage certain egos to the detriment of the country is ridiculous. 

21 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

 

And your concerns for intelligence sources reco, Ajit Doval has a post akin to a  Cabinet minister, don't worry, he will address these fears internally with the governent. Trust in Doval. The CAB is for people already in India illegally. Fresh ones post 2014 will be allowed after proper vetting. Nobody is allowed enmasse without any screening.

How much will our agencies do? We have our hands full in Kashmir with our useless neighbours causing trouble. Now **** has started in N.E because of this. How much more should we stretch our agencies?

 

 

[Dil Dil India]

What this move has done:

 

1) Started trouble in N.E after a long time

2) Pissed off Afg and BD (who were supporting us on Kashmir vs Pak)

3) Alienated large sections of our own population

4) More negative press (just as we are getting Kashmir sorted).

5) Clean chit to Pak wrt to their treatment of Shias, Ahmadis, etc.

 

But but but it's all good. We are playing right into the hands of the libtards. Disgusting.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Dil Dil India

[FischerTal]

8 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

What this move has done:

 

1) Started trouble in N.E after a long time

2) Pissed off Afg and BD (who were supporting us on Kashmir vs Pak)

3) Alienated large sections of our own population

4) More negative press (just as we are getting Kashmir sorted).

5) Clean chit to Pak wrt to their treatment of Shias, Ahmadis, etc.

 

But but but it's all good. We are playing right into the hands of the libtards. Disgusting.

when you take important steps, there will always be blowback. leaders are not elected to keep things going the way they were before.

[Dil Dil India]

"Important steps"

Lol.

[FischerTal]

Dil Dil "India" .... 

[FischerTal]

.

Edited December 12, 2019 by FischerTal

[mishra]

8 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

What this move has done:

 

1) Started trouble in N.E after a long time

2) Pissed off Afg and BD (who were supporting us on Kashmir vs Pak)

3) Alienated large sections of our own population

4) More negative press (just as we are getting Kashmir sorted).

5) Clean chit to Pak wrt to their treatment of Shias, Ahmadis, etc.

 

But but but it's all good. We are playing right into the hands of the libtards. Disgusting.

1> So you declared it as started trouble in North East.  No trouble will start. Wait till the names of students shot dead gets pubicised. Even IIT Gs, rest of India students joined the protest. Do you think they have any mood to get shot by bullet instead of taking up a MNC job two year later.

2> The two nations should stop killing HHindus. There is no hope about Afghanistan, But millions of non Muslims still live in Bangladesh. For the first time it has been made clear that it will not be tolerated any more

3> Who is alienated. Kapil Sibbal. Who himself is in India because of similar amnesty. MMS himself offered same party position less than 10 years back. So no one disagrees with it. Its similar to article 370. Congress opposed for sake of opposition. Just that political maths was being tested

4>Kashmir is sorted despite media. Do you think CAB is anywhere comparable to Kashmir that we should be scared by media. Librands and their paid media can eff off.

5> How? If it was clean chit then why this ruckus? This law covers religiuosly persecuted minorities. Its crystal clear to general population apart from people who want to do drama

[Dil Dil India]

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

1> So you declared it as started trouble in North East.  No trouble will start. Wait till the names of students shot dead gets pubicised. Even IIT Gs, rest of India students joined the protest. Do you think they have any mood to get shot by bullet instead of taking up a MNC job two year later.

Like Gollum, you are a reasonable poster so I hope we can agree to disagree.

 

Are you denying that trouble has started in the N.E? Yes?

 

 

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

2> The two nations should stop killing HHindus. There is no hope about Afghanistan, But millions of non Muslims still live in Bangladesh. For the first time it has been made clear that it will not be tolerated any more

What they do in their countries is not our concern! We should be worried about our own people. Do you want to push those two countries into the arms of Pakistan? Do you want us to be surrounded by enemies? Are China and Pakistan not enough?

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

3> Who is alienated. Kapil Sibbal. Who himself is in India because of similar amnesty. MMS himself offered same party position less than 10 years back. So no one disagrees with it. Its similar to article 370. Congress opposed for sake of opposition. Just that political maths was being tested

Bhaichung Bhutia and many N.E celebs have expressed their concerns. N.E, Muslims - that's a huge percentage of our population. I don't give a * about Congress. 

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

4>Kashmir is sorted despite media. Do you think CAB is anywhere comparable to Kashmir that we should be scared by media. Librands and their paid media can eff off.

How many enemies do you think we can fight? Do you want our army and CRPF forces to guard against China, Pak + control the situation in Kashmir + N.E all at once? 

2 minutes ago, mishra said:

5> How? If it was clean chit then why this ruckus? This law covers religiuosly persecuted minorities. Its crystal clear to general population apart from people who want to do drama

I said clean chit wrt to their treatment of Shias and Ahmadis. They are persecuted in Pakistan.

[Dil Dil India]

10 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

sounds like a dialogue from a bad rajkumar movie...... 

 

 

Hauz Khas me tera ******* 50 rs ke liye bohat kuch karta hai 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Dil Dil India

[Muloghonto]

45 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

I care about the India that is India Today - post 1947. Don't care about what happened centuries ago. If we go back far enough there's no India, even further there are no people. If that's your view good for you.

The india that has existed for thousands of years will emerge over the colonial India that existed for 200 years. 

45 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

I care more about India and Indians - you care about religious identity. This relates to the point above.

False. I care about Indian culture. Which is why I didn’t single out Hinduism but any and all Indic philosophies.

45 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Lol. Yes Intelligence inputs are irrelevant. Some random turnips sitting in USA and handing out certificates of deshbhakti is what we need.

 

Sophistry. You know exactly what i meant and said.

[Dil Dil India]

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

The india that has existed for thousands of years will emerge over the colonial India that existed for 200 years. 

False. I care about Indian culture. Which is why I didn’t single out Hinduism but any and all Indic philosophies.

Sophistry. You know exactly what i meant and said.

Mug, I've been on the same side with you vs zeppy many times, I know exactly how you argue. I don't share your views here. Agree to disagree.

 

A working solution I can think of is to get all these leeches and settle them in Kashmir. 2 birds with one stone.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Dil Dil India

[mishra]

30 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Are you denying that trouble has started in the N.E? Yes?

Assam will never  have trouble unless its Bangladeshi Muslims. End of discussion there

 

30 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

What they do in their countries is not our concern! We should be worried about our own people. Do you want to push those two countries into the arms of Pakistan? Do you want us to be surrounded by enemies? Are China and Pakistan not enough?

I will not give standard Libraand answer that its moral obligation for every human, because i believe such answer is political  and of fake signinficance.

 

Why do you think you have more right over India because people from three neighbouring states couldnt make them available to become Indian citizen in time? Or there is reasonable doubt that they couldn't?  Similarly most Muslims living in Current India at the time would not have supported creation and migration to Pakistan, and now they dont/dont? Real life and issues of migration is not black and white.  So yes, Pakustanis /Afghanis and Bangaldeshi do not accept Indian Muslims,  but IMO, India/indians is not like its neighbors and  have moral ethical political obligation to share the land with non Muslims left in Pakistan /Bangladesh and speak for them. Please note, I am not asking to divide Bangaldesh into say two parts and give one to non Muslims. I am saying, non Muslims in those two countries have a right and time and again General Amnesty should be offered to religiously persecuted comminities of undivided India who couldnt migrate to Current India. THis is basic difference in thinking of Hindus vs rest. You wont get it how this thinking comes

 

30 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Bhaichung Bhutia and many N.E celebs have expressed their concerns. N.E, Muslims - that's a huge percentage of our population. I don't give a * about Congress. 

How many enemies do you think we can fight? Do you want our army and CRPF forces to guard against China, Pak + control the situation in Kashmir + N.E all at once? 

I said clean chit wrt to their treatment of Shias and Ahmadis. They are persecuted in Pakistan.

Rahane de bhai. I cant repeat same thing again and again. Read my previous post about IIT G.

 

About Ahmedis. I said "crystal clear". U dont know why you cant comprehend the term religious minority.

Edited December 12, 2019 by mishra

[Dil Dil India]

@mishraHaan Mishra ji rehne hi deta hoon, warna faltu me behes ho jayegi. Yahan sab desh bhakti, Hinduism ke certificates baant rahe hain. Apne logo ko chodke sabki chinta hai. Sabko alienate kar do, sabse dushmani mol lo. India ki economy, rape problems, unemployement sab gaya tel lene, partition ke time jo hua uspe charcha karte hain kyunki tabhi toh aage badhega india. Wah mishra ji wah.

 

 

[Muloghonto]

17 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

Mug, I've been on the same side with you vs zeppy many times, I know exactly how you argue. I don't share your views here. Agree to disagree.

 

A working solution I can think of is to get all these leeches and settle them in Kashmir. 2 birds with one stone.

I agree. But one step at a time. First we learn how to walk before we learn how to stand. First we give them citizenship, next we figure out where to send them. 

[mishra]

4 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

@mishraHaan Mishra ji rehne hi deta hoon, warna faltu me behes ho jayegi. Yahan sab desh bhakti, Hinduism ke certificates baant rahe hain. Apne logo ko chodke sabki chinta hai. Sabko alienate kar do, sabse dushmani mol lo. India ki economy, rape problems, unemployement sab gaya tel lene, partition ke time jo hua uspe charcha karte hain kyunki tabhi toh aage badhega india. Wah mishra ji wah.

 

 

Ok.

[Austin 3:!6]

29 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I agree. But one step at a time. First we learn how to walk before we learn how to stand. First we give them citizenship, next we figure out where to send them. 

True. First we must learn to wank before

[FischerTal]

,

Edited December 12, 2019 by FischerTal

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

Much more constructive than troll voting people for having a different view, thanks.

 

I consider all illegal immigrants leeches. Rightly or wrongly, these guys ended up in the neighbouring countries post partition - not our headache now. We have 50% + of our population BPL. We are not Sweden or Norway.

There is a difference, those who came for better economic prospects are immigrants (illegal), while some have moved in illegally due to persecution and fear of being converted. They are refugees (sharanarthi). It would be inhuman to band them with other immigrants who have become a menace.

I have donated to some Rajasthani NGOs (UJAS partnered with HAF) who are fast-tracking vetting of persecuted Hindus to move them sooner to India. They have no country to go to. AGree to disagree, dont band them all as leeches.

1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

Kick the illegal BD workers out. My problem is you are only kicking the illegal BD Muslims out, kick out the BD Hindus too.

We have to start with our own countrymen first. Do we have infinite resources to right every wrong that's happened in the world. Let's cut out the talk - how many Pak non muslims are YOU willing to host in your house? That's what I thought...

If we start worrying only from 1947, why do you think we honor freedom fighters, FOTN etc.  We will worry only about 1947 onwards. That is juvenile argument. Let them educate who we are and how we came into existence. India was not born in 1947.

 

1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

Just because they were part of the manifesto it doesn't make it right. India is a secular country, period.

You are used to parties like INC who put things in manifesto and forget when in power. People vote on mudde of the pre-election manifesto. They are not used to wrap jhol-muri!

 

1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

If we keep quarreling over history, we will never progress. We need to do what is best for our country - country of 1.3 billion, a poor country whose growth rate has gone down to 4.5%. Taking in ungrateful leeches simply to assuage certain egos to the detriment of the country is ridiculous. 

WHo is quarelling, just an act of reconcilliation and reparations for future harmony. If you wan to forget the past or white-wash crimes of coloniaL/mughal era, and negate history it will leave the majority hurt and wanting retribution. Let them accept Iconclast invaders of their ancestors. It will help build a stornger nation than what it has been since 72 years. I will ignore all leechi references, seems to be your favirite fruit.

1 hour ago, Dil Dil India said:

How much will our agencies do? We have our hands full in Kashmir with our useless neighbours causing trouble. Now **** has started in N.E because of this. How much more should we stretch our agencies?

 

 

N.E protests is purely political, INC, Commies and AIUDF want to create an atmosphere where the anti-incumbency comes into picture for next elections. An investment for the future funded by vested interests. It will die down after a couple of days. Looks like we don't agree on anything, so will ignore your views.

[Gollum]

8 hours ago, speedheat said:

I support this bill it's a good decision  but bigger challenge for government will be to settle these refugees in different part of the country.

I don't think only religion can bind difference in cultural ethnicity. 

What do you think Gollum where and how will government  settle them?

Maaaan I have no idea what will be done, seriously....we can only offer suggestions and exchange thoughts in chit-chat forum to pass some time . Govt hasn't gone into specifics and rightly so because this is just the start. Citizenship amendment act by itself won't be of much use, need nationwide NRC to complement it. Even then since many have already faked their way into getting certificates results may be underwhelming just like Assam NRC. Implementation is the key and I am a bit skeptical, nevertheless start has to be made somewhere. 

 

I don't think we can send the illegal Muslims back, practically impossible. Again govt must be having some idea which it hasn't shared with public for obvious reasons. Taking it step by step lest panic sets in. 

 

Many of the refugees have settled in various parts of India and found a way to co-exist with remaining population, the other day they were showing interviews of Sikh refugees in NCR and apart from citizenship woes (all that comes with the absence of it) they were at peace with their surroundings, Sikhs from Afg were speaking fluent Hindi, doing small jobs, helping their community etc. Similarly there are many in other parts of India who have learnt the art of survival over decades and now they are indistinguishable from Indian citizens. But there will be many in NE who face hostility from locals, IMO entire burden shouldn't be put on those folks, other states should chip in and do their bit, starting with Bengal. Not just religion, but even when it comes to culture/ethnicity/language there are similarities and there will be least friction when it comes to accommodating East Bengal based ones, ofc Mamata will do her bit to oppose so another complication. Bengal, Tripura and Assam must do more than other states because largely these 3 states have been responsible for the unchecked immigration (historical responsibility), Centre should financially compensate (grants, subsidy, infra) these states to help them out.

 

Redistribute them across India, many vacant/barren/forested areas...like how 1971 refugees were resettled in Dandakaranya. Let them settle in those areas and start local economy, there has to be compromise by all involved because it won't be smooth sailing at first. Initially agriculture/forest/trade/workshops/labour (to develop infrastructure there) heavy economy in those enclaves and invest in education of their kids so that they can make the social mobility upwards after 1-2 generations. Divert some of the unskilled ones to lay roads and railway tracks, keep them all engaged and under supervision so that they don't settle elsewhere. This may seem harsh but best for everyone, with time those enclaves will develop and become indistinguishable part of the state where they are located. Settling them in Kashmir is a good idea but honestly it will take a couple of decades of army presence there to prepare the ground...dunno if it will be feasible in the near future. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Gollum