Stop Comparing our youngsters to WI youngsters in terms of power game, those guys are genetically better for that role

[putrevus]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

True.

 

As I said above, we have lots of big hitters ... Pandya, Rohit, Rahul, Pant, Iyer, Subdar and now Dube ... all can hit big 6s regularly. 

 

We need to change our mindset to batting at a high SR in T20s. 

We don't have hitters, of all the batsmen you listed only Rohit to me is big hitter but takes too much time to get set and he drains the life out of innings.Rahul has the ability but he has not gotten enough chances. Pant is looking more like hack than a batsman, I don't know what is going on with him.

 

Pandya has do it more often and has to have  more range of shots.As of now he is just one dimensional who is going deep in his crease and hitting everything in front of the wicket.

 

Compare it with Lewis and Pooran who have aerial strokes all around the wicket.Dhoni stunk in t20s as he did not have many shots in his arsenal.You dismissed Hetmyer as a hack but to me he is very talented, he just needs to rein in himself and have better shot selection.If he does that he will become one of best batsman in their team.

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

We don't have hitters, of all the batsmen you listed

 

I don't agree. Anybody who can hit and does hit is a hitter.

[GautiMaan]

On 12/9/2019 at 2:28 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

IPL is a diff ball game u can target 2-3 weak bowlers 

N if he bats at 4 iyer even goes down 

 

Why shud the idea of getting set be discarded....u cant win by cameos...top order will always have to score more. Some start late but pick up like no one.Kohli n rohit start late but then they pick they become beast as just kohli showed. u cant throw in all youngsters ....experience is a huge thing in Wcs

If they take time they also offer consistency.....u need to have diff kind of players. 

For me getting set and calculation is fine if you know the target but you cannot follow the same approach when batting first,atleast one batsman needs to go for broke in the power plays

[GautiMaan]

Rohit is already reeling of lines about not matching Windies hitting but winning by playing "smart cricket" but in reality what we do is not playing smart cricket but just following the ODI template in t20s and hoping Kohli does the job which is ridiculous.

[Straight Drive]

The full flow of the bat which the WI batsman have often gives the feeling that they smash the ball rather than time it.

[express bowling]

Looks like this superior hitting ability of the WI batters is a myth.  Below are the T20 strike rates and 6s per Innings of batters of both teams.

 

Indians actually have better strike rates overall  ... and are ahead in 6s per Innings too. 

 

Only Evin Lewis is superior to everyone else.

 

 

 

Strike rates of Indian and WI T20I batters ----

 

Lewis.   153

Dube.    152

 

Hardik     148

Rahul.     145

Russell.   141

 

Rohit.      137

Kohli.      136

Holder.   130

 

Iyer.             127

Pooran.      127

Pollard.      127

Pant.          123

Hetmeyer  120

 

 

Sixes per Innings of Indian and WI T20 I batters ----

 

Lewis.     2.39

 

Rahul.      1.53 

Rohit.       1.21   

Pooran.   1.13

Dube.       1.00

 

Pollard.     0.96

Kohli.        0.93

Russell.    0.82

Pant.         0.78

 

 

Simmons.   0.79

Hardik         0.76

Iyer.             0.75

Hetmeyer   0.71

 

Holder.      0.40

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't agree. Anybody who can hit and does hit is a hitter.

Muscle power helps. It makes fielding tougher if the ball is coming hard at the fielders, especially in cold conditions of NZ or England when the fingers can get numb. The chances of dropped catch also increases of a fielder is not keen to put out hand against a very powerful shot. Catching becomes tougher when there is some fear factor or the ball is travelling faster than what a fielder may be comfortable with.

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

I don't agree. Anybody who can hit and does hit is a hitter.

I don't think so, look at last match and look at semis in 2016, it is the ability of WI to clear boundary with ease which was the difference between teams.

 

Our batsmen are more timers and need to spend time to get going and still lack that extra gear which other teams have,our batsmen hit more 4s than 6s.

 

Hitting odd 6 here and there does not make anyone a six hitter. That 6 hitting is vital in t20 both in power play and in death overs. We lack in both of them.

[express bowling]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't think so, look at last match and look at semis in 2016, it is the ability of WI to clear boundary with ease which was the difference between teams.

 

Our batsmen are more timers and need to spend time to get going and still lack that extra gear which other teams have,our batsmen hit more 4s than 6s.

 

Hitting odd 6 here and there does not make anyone a six hitter. That 6 hitting is vital in t20 both in power play and in death overs. We lack in both of them.

 

Check the post I have just made ... I quote it again below.

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Looks like this superior hitting ability of the WI batters is a myth.  Below are the T20 strike rates and 6s per Innings of batters of both teams.

 

Indians actually have better strike rates overall  ... and are ahead in 6s per Innings too. 

 

Only Evin Lewis is superior to everyone else.

 

 

 

Strike rates of Indian and WI T20I batters ----

 

Lewis.   153

Dube.    152

 

Hardik     148

Rahul.     145

Russell.   141

 

Rohit.      137

Kohli.      136

Holder.   130

 

Iyer.             127

Pooran.      127

Pollard.      127

Pant.          123

Hetmeyer  120

 

 

Sixes per Innings of Indian and WI T20 I batters ----

 

Lewis.     2.39

 

Rahul.      1.53 

Rohit.       1.21   

Pooran.   1.13

Dube.       1.00

 

Pollard.     0.96

Kohli.        0.93

Russell.    0.82

Pant.         0.78

 

 

Simmons.   0.79

Hardik         0.76

Iyer.             0.75

Hetmeyer   0.71

 

Holder.      0.40

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by express bowling

[kruiser]

Agar last match mein 2 catch pakad lete, to yeh thread hi nahin banta.. BTW good trolling job by the OP !

[putrevus]

18 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Check the post I have just made ... I quote it again below.

 

 

 

 

You are quoting Dubey's SR as 152 which makes no sense, he played one innings and look at the stats of Lewis and look at six hitting prowess of their batsmen and out batsmen.It is Rohit and Rahul who hit most sixes for us.Rahul does not play much and Rohit the big hitter in this team.

 

India does not have either opening fire power if Rahul is absent nor do they have any closers in T20s.

[express bowling]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You are quoting Dubey's SR as 152 which makes no sense, he played one innings and look at the stats of Lewis and look at six hitting prowess of their batsmen and out batsmen.It is Rohit and Rahul who hit most sixes for us.Rahul does not play much and Rohit the big hitter in this team.

 

India does not have either opening fire power if Rahul is absent nor do they have any closers in T20s.

 

So, in that huge list, you choose to pick out only Dube and ignore the rest. !

 

Where is the superior hitting power of the WI batters apart from Lewis ?  Show me  ( I am ignoring Dube for now )

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, GautiMaan said:

For me getting set and calculation is fine if you know the target but you cannot follow the same approach when batting first,atleast one batsman needs to go for broke in the power plays

that is why Rahul is important and this TM made blunder by sitting him on bench for so many games that to for Dhawan

[prudent_kreeda]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

Looks like this superior hitting ability of the WI batters is a myth.  Below are the T20 strike rates and 6s per Innings of batters of both teams.

 

Indians actually have better strike rates overall  ... and are ahead in 6s per Innings too. 

 

Only Evin Lewis is superior to everyone else.

 

 

 

Strike rates of Indian and WI T20I batters ----

 

Lewis.   153

Dube.    152

 

Hardik     148

Rahul.     145

Russell.   141

 

Rohit.      137

Kohli.      136

Holder.   130

 

Iyer.             127

Pooran.      127

Pollard.      127

Pant.          123

Hetmeyer  120

 

 

Sixes per Innings of Indian and WI T20 I batters ----

 

Lewis.     2.39

 

Rahul.      1.53 

Rohit.       1.21   

Pooran.   1.13

Dube.       1.00

 

Pollard.     0.96

Kohli.        0.93

Russell.    0.82

Pant.         0.78

 

 

Simmons.   0.79

Hardik         0.76

Iyer.             0.75

Hetmeyer   0.71

 

Holder.      0.40

        Upto this point could be . 

       But what tilts the scale is the natural power hitting talent one can see of WI youngsters . Hetmeyer, Pooran , King  even Hope have greater range of  shots and attacking ability . They will be inconsistent  though .

       Where they may fail is against spinners who cannot be read easily from hand and quick accurate bowlers who move the ball a bit with seam /swing . 

        If these guys do not loose their way , WI will become a very very good T20 side going forward. I think Walsh Jr. is also a very good addition. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by prudent_kreeda

[express bowling]

31 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said:

        Upto this point could be . 

       But what tilts the scale is the natural power hitting talent one can see of WI youngsters . Hetmeyer, Pooran , King  even Hope have greater range of  shots and attacking ability . They will be inconsistent  though .

       Where they may fail is against spinners who cannot be read easily from hand and quick accurate bowlers who move the ball a bit with seam /swing . 

        If these guys do not loose their way , WI will become a very very good T20 side going forward. I think Walsh Jr. is also a very good addition. 

 

A very astute post as usual Prudent Bhai.

 

One point I must add though is that we should not focus too much on the natural ability of our opponents and feel inferior. It affected the development of Indian fast bowlers for 35 years. I hope it does not affect us producing good T20 hitters now.

 

Mamy of the WI T20 batters may have natural power but they have weaknesses too, which hamper their net effectiveness. 

 

Similarly, our young T20 batters can combine timing with power ( ever improving with professional strength and conditioning training )  ... and produce high SR batters in T20s. 

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

Looks like this superior hitting ability of the WI batters is a myth.  Below are the T20 strike rates and 6s per Innings of batters of both teams.

 

Indians actually have better strike rates overall  ... and are ahead in 6s per Innings too. 

 

Only Evin Lewis is superior to everyone else.

 

 

 

Strike rates of Indian and WI T20I batters ----

 

Lewis.   153

Dube.    152

 

Hardik     148

Rahul.     145

Russell.   141

 

Rohit.      137

Kohli.      136

Holder.   130

 

Iyer.             127

Pooran.      127

Pollard.      127

Pant.          123

Hetmeyer  120

 

 

Sixes per Innings of Indian and WI T20 I batters ----

 

Lewis.     2.39

 

Rahul.      1.53 

Rohit.       1.21   

Pooran.   1.13

Dube.       1.00

 

Pollard.     0.96

Kohli.        0.93

Russell.    0.82

Pant.         0.78

 

 

Simmons.   0.79

Hardik         0.76

Iyer.             0.75

Hetmeyer   0.71

 

Holder.      0.40

Lewis and Pooran are some of the smallest in their team (physically ) an other myth

[Vilander]

34 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

A very astute post as usual Prudent Bhai.

 

One point I must add though is that we should not focus too much on the natural ability of our opponents and feel inferior. It affected the development of Indian fast bowlers for 35 years. I hope it does not affect us producing good T20 hitters now.

 

Mamy of the WI T20 batters may have natural power but they have weaknesses too, which hamper their net effectiveness. 

 

Similarly, our young T20 batters can combine timing with power ( ever improving with professional strength and conditioning training )  ... and produce high SR batters in T20s. 

If physical power translated to power behind a cricket shot fully then we could fill the teams with 5 wrestlers and win the wc. 

[prudent_kreeda]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

A very astute post as usual Prudent Bhai.

 

One point I must add though is that we should not focus too much on the natural ability of our opponents and feel inferior. It affected the development of Indian fast bowlers for 35 years. I hope it does not affect us producing good T20 hitters now.

 

Mamy of the WI T20 batters may have natural power but they have weaknesses too, which hamper their net effectiveness. 

 

Similarly, our young T20 batters can combine timing with power ( ever improving with professional strength and conditioning training )  ... and produce high SR batters in T20s. 

       Agree .

      If you see most Indians play in a similar pattern and are very predicable . No doubt our youngsters will be more consistent  but more predictable .      Due to this predictable shot making, they get contained . Most of spinners will either bowl at pads full or bowl wide of  off  stump as they know these batsmen will not move outside leg and hit such balls on pads over off side .  Again if they start reverse sweeping , bowlers will think twice  bowling always out side the off stump.  They need to develop clever shots which can be played with control rather brute force every time . 

      Take Pant - In nearly year now , his shot making has become predictable . Even if gets out 10 times hitting aerially on the leg side  , he does not  rectify , still losing balance , loosing grip . Need to develop a game which is opposite to what he is doing now for the same kind of bowling. 

      If its shortish on body , try to play over point or cover point.  If full length on pads , start hitting  through cover , mid off , long off . If good length hit over long on , back over bowlers head , Long on . 

     it throws the bowlers off guard as they will be expecting Pant to hoick it to leg side and get caught. 

     Once he shows this kind of counter attacking play , it opens up a lot more gaps and then he can easily fetch boundaries  without loosing balance . 

     If such improvements are done ,  mind you these guys will be even better than WI young bats i was referring as our bats will always  be more consistent than them .

    I think what we need is an aggressive batting coach like Brendon who will improve this unorthodox shots. Mind Brendon seem to be brainy and tactically good when you hear in com box.  

Edited December 10, 2019 by prudent_kreeda

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

So, in that huge list, you choose to pick out only Dube and ignore the rest. !

 

Where is the superior hitting power of the WI batters apart from Lewis ?  Show me  ( I am ignoring Dube for now )

 

 

Their best player  is not playing you quoted Russell ,Rusell is far better player and he plays very sparingly for WI but will play in world T20.

 

The Indian players who you quoted are mostly top order. Their young players are just getting started they have played 10-15 matches.If you think they are not better then we are watching different game.

 

Pandya's highest score is 31 and has scored 300 runs in 40 matches, it just shows how much he has contributed with bat.

 

You don't need to be powerfully built to hit big shots, you need ability to play shots in multiple hitting zones.

Edited December 10, 2019 by putrevus

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Pandya's highest score in 31 and has scored 300 runs, in 40 matches, it just shows how much he has contributed with bat.

thats a wrong way to put stats 

Real stat is he got only 25 innings to bat in 40 in which he has played around 215 balls which means he doesnt even get 9 balls per match. This shows how much time our top order has been taking that guys pandya are not even used properly