Why has India been unable to produce another decent finisher in LOIs?

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

7 hours ago, Param Mastishk Pheeka said:

Today, confident youngsters like Pant, Iyer, Gill, and now Jaiswal have to prove themselves for 3-5 years in Ranji, SMA, Hazare trophy, Duleep, IPL, India-A -- grind, grind, grind.  Even then, they are 2 failures away from being replaced with an established guy.  They are afraid to take things on and play with an eff-you attitude.  A finisher needs this freedom but there is no room for it.  It's like the team has saturated.  In today's environment, even SRT would not have debuted.  

Everyone's talking about international level but my point was about domestic level. Why can't middle order batting and finishing as a skill be developed at the domestic level? We are spoilt for choices in top order batsmen but there aren't as many quality players that are specialist middle order batsmen in domestic cricket.

[rollingstoned]

1 hour ago, GautiMaan said:

The one's who looked like the next gen finishers over the last few years were Deepak Hooda and Sarfaraz Khan.Both have underwhelmed though Sarfaraz looks like getting back in the groove.

 

Now since we didnt have any natural finishers coming through one would have thought the TM would have given a long rope to Pant at 6 but such planning and thought is too much to expect from Shastrohli.

 

At some point ishwar pandey too. Guy has vanished into oblivion since 2016. What's he upto nowadays?

[GautiMaan]

35 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

At some point ishwar pandey too. Guy has vanished into oblivion since 2016. What's he upto nowadays?

No results found for Ishwar Pandey finisher.

Did you mean Ishwar Pandey fast bowler or Ishank Jaggi middle order batsman?

[rollingstoned]

6 hours ago, GautiMaan said:

No results found for Ishwar Pandey finisher.

Did you mean Ishwar Pandey fast bowler or Ishank Jaggi middle order batsman?

The fast bowler. Not long back he was touted to be the sort of player we want pandya to be in our team. I have hardly heard much about him since.

[putrevus]

15 hours ago, Param Mastishk Pheeka said:

My 2 naye paise:

 

In the early 2000s, our cupboard was bare.  In ODIs, with the exception of Ganguly and SRT, we had no established players (RD and VVSL were marginal ODI batsmen, Azhar turned out to be a punk, and Ajay Jadeja and Nayan Mongia were under the match-fixing microscope).  It opened the doors for brave young talent like Yuvraj and later MSD.  They were thrown into the deep end and thrived.  Yuvraj was freakkin' 18 and MSD was 23.  

 

Today, confident youngsters like Pant, Iyer, Gill, and now Jaiswal have to prove themselves for 3-5 years in Ranji, SMA, Hazare trophy, Duleep, IPL, India-A -- grind, grind, grind.  Even then, they are 2 failures away from being replaced with an established guy.  They are afraid to take things on and play with an eff-you attitude.  A finisher needs this freedom but there is no room for it.  It's like the team has saturated.  In today's environment, even SRT would not have debuted.  

 

 

 

 

Kohli was made captain in 2017.Dhoni was captain from 2008 to 2017, how come we did not find finishers for whole decade.The youngsters you mentioned came to reckoning around last year or so other than Pant.

 

A player like Dhoni is very rare, you don't find those sort of players every day that is why Dhoni was so great in odis.

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, rollingstoned said:

The fast bowler. Not long back he was touted to be the sort of player we want pandya to be in our team. I have hardly heard much about him since.

ishwar pandey n pandya ???? both were never same player

Ishwar pandey was a trundler who was with team and dhoni didnt give him bhav being a trundler....agar trundler ko dhoni ne bhav nhin diya to fir to kuch nhin ho sakta 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[putrevus]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

It took even yuvraj 5 years to make consistent impact, was averaging around 29 till 2005 batting in top 6. Pandya averages same with better SR but bats at 7.

Nobody is asking Pandya to bat no7 , he is not being promoted higher in order because he is not good enough to bat no5 or no6.If he became good enough to bat at no6 there would have been no need for Jadhav.But sadly he is not good enough to bat at no6 also?

 

Yuvraj was averaging 29 till 2005 but he had ability to score a 100 against Australia in Australia along with 17 fifties. Pandya other than 2017 has not reached 50 in his career.

 

How many years does Pandya need to make consistent impact? Yuvraj was 18 or 19 when he made his debut?Pandya is 27 now.

Edited February 10, 2020 by putrevus

[Vilander]

everyone wants to bat in the top and become ishstarrr..like Sachin/Rohit etc. 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

9 hours ago, Vilander said:

everyone wants to bat in the top and become ishstarrr..like Sachin/Rohit etc. 

What about those that are already batting in the middle order in domestic cricket? They're the inferior batsmen of their team? 

[Arvind32]

On 2/9/2020 at 10:16 PM, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

 

Please read the entire post before replying.

 

In the mid-2000s, more than the top order, it was our middle order that used to win us games. Yuvraj, Dhoni, Raina won us many games in that period. But since their decline, we haven't been able to produce another finisher with the exception of Kohli who plays in the top order.

 

Why is that? Why are almost all the top batsmen that are in discussion in domestic cricket right now top order batsmen? Why don't we have batsmen in domestic cricket who have developed a reputation of finishing games? Why don't we have batsmen at 4, 5 or 6 averaging 50+ in List A cricket? Why have the likes of Yuvraj, Dhoni not been able to inspire the new generation of middle order LOI batsmen in the "IPL era"? Do we play too few 50-over games in domestic cricket? Is the art of finishing games so difficult that it cannot be developed at the domestic level? Are coaches at the domestic level not giving as much importance to it as they should?

The answer to your question is that players are the product of the system not other way around , India is country of billion people and there is lot of talent in this country but the problem lies in the fact that their system is so rigged up that  average person neither has proper ground , system , guidance to progress them to next level . If someone good enough make it to the top level , people like Kohli  will never give them chance to make them to Indian team , the classical example is Shubman Gill , Sarfraz Khan , Ryan Pirag ,  Avesh  Khan and many more . Even an average person knows that they are super star and need chances at the top level to shine but in fact people like Dhoni , Jadhav or shard Thakhur are perferred so that he look like super star .   It’s So unfortunate for them that they are playing for India if they have been born in half the talent in other country , they would have been playing at international level . so before someone fix the player it is better to fix the system so talented people get selected and there is proper support system behind player to guide them, if you able to do that you can field 10-11 top notch quality players at the international level otherwise story will continue .....

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

1 hour ago, Arvind32 said:

The answer to your question is that players are the product of the system not other way around

You're going on a rant.

 

Which player in domestic cricket right now do you think has a good record as a finisher in 50-over cricket?

[Arvind32]

6 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

You're going on a rant.

 

Which player in domestic cricket right now do you think has a good record as a finisher in 50-over cricket?

It’s up to you to accept it as a rant or logic, first of all you do not need million runs or bowls to judge someone . If that was the only criteria your main bowlers Bumrah or Saini would not have played at state level . Next  to your point , how many times a Sarfraz khan need to show it , 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

1 hour ago, Arvind32 said:

If that was the only criteria your main bowlers Bumrah or Saini would not have played at state level .

Why wouldn't they have? Were they not getting wickets at club level?

1 hour ago, Arvind32 said:

Next  to your point , how many times a Sarfraz khan need to show it , 

Sarfaraz Khan wasn't even in the conversation for the last 2 years until the Ranji Trophy this year. Nevertheless, he hasn't proven himself in 50-overs cricket.

[Arvind32]

39 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Why wouldn't they have? Were they not getting wickets at club level?

Sarfaraz Khan wasn't even in the conversation for the last 2 years until the Ranji Trophy this year. Nevertheless, he hasn't proven himself in 50-overs cricket.

I am not sure that how much cricket you have followed in the past , Both were net bowlers and selected by John Wright and Gutam Gambir  , 

in Regard to Sarfraz , he is at international limelight since 2016 and played one of the best innings under utmost pressure in Under 19 World Cup and adjudged man of the tournament in that year . Have you noticed how much time he had when he plays his shot that’s what you need to know the hallmark of finisher or pressure player . 

There are many players like him in India but system is so f ....up , that  not many people meet honest people  as compared to Aus /Nz and Eng which have developed good infrastructure and system that’s why they outshine easily 

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

2 hours ago, Arvind32 said:

I am not sure that how much cricket you have followed in the past , Both were net bowlers and selected by John Wright and Gutam Gambir  ,  

Bumrah was already playing for Gujarat when Wright spotted him.

2 hours ago, Arvind32 said:

in Regard to Sarfraz , he is at international limelight since 2016 and played one of the best innings under utmost pressure in Under 19 World Cup and adjudged man of the tournament in that year . 

Yeah, and Unmukt Chand played a great innings in the 2012 U19 World Cup final. He was mediocre in domestic cricket though. They need to prove themselves at the lower levels to be successful at the international level.

 

Anyway, that's not what my post was about anyway.

[GautiMaan]

Blast from the past in my youtube feed;

Kedhar has great average and Strike rate but cant recall him pulling off a chase.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

51 minutes ago, GautiMaan said:

Kedhar has great average and Strike rate but cant recall him pulling off a chase.

He had that series in 2017 against England where he scored 2 centuries while chasing, though one was in a losing cause.

[GautiMaan]

19 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

He had that series in 2017 against England where he scored 2 centuries while chasing, though one was in a losing cause.

He languished for too long in the domestic setup,would have probably been at his peak in 2015 and could have made that WC squad.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

22 minutes ago, GautiMaan said:

He languished for too long in the domestic setup,would have probably been at his peak in 2015 and could have made that WC squad.

Yeah should have been tried in 2014 after he scored 1,223 runs at a strike rate of 80.30 in Ranji Trophy that season.

[Straight Drive]

Iyer played at least three match winning innings to seal win for India this year against Kiwis. He could be the finisher.