Match Thread : India v/s New Zealand XI Practice Match at Hamilton

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Coz he started having shami from other end and pressure helped eveyrone avg . In last 2 years its an all round attack which gives nothing and chokes opposition. surely he improved at home but no sample to say he improved overseas, the last test he played overseas was good and there was no warner or smith also this time

 

His last test overseas in perth without warner smith

2/78...eco 3.5

0/61...eco 3.5

 

last 2 yrs improvement at home but overseas still nothing good 

he had injury issue in intial years and some times dropped wrongly for overseas form 

No he even sucked on A tours and SL, BANG with kookabura

why not, arent u using same logic n saying keep mayank out atleast mayank doesnt have a failure sample overseas yet 

Coz moeen ali bowls in his home condition, same moeen ali was useless in our home condition 

Lyon is a top bowler who has doesnt have good stats in few countries like ashwin so why discriminate with one 

 

Spinners arent to much of concern overseas as they are support bowler , if they start to perform less in home condition then wud be a problem. And u think both havent been rotated or benched . Atleast ashwin went to county n performed cant say same about umesh in his career

That is a huge discredit to his bowling he needed someone at other end to improve his record. Just a theory. Yes Mayank should be out based on his repeated failures in NZ.  Moeen Ali was at  best a part timer.when he started. When he outbowls a multiple record holder at the test level.consistently then shouldn't he also be dropped? He couldn't get Sam Curran out who smoked him all over the park. He could have won the test. He didn't.  So if we use this yardstick then Ashwin shouldn't even tour abroad. IT doesn't matter what he does in county. I have critizied Umesh in the past heavily as well. But you do not drop a bowler that have done well in the most recent series over someone who is not exactly  that good even in domestic. At a strike rate of 60 he is not exactly inspiring confidence.  How on earth Saini is better than Archer, Woakes who both struggled in NZ recently. I am not even sure how we can say Saini is better than Umesh simply because Saini has never played with Kookaburra.  Thakur in the Australian A tour was the highest wicket takur at 24 or so. So he is a kookaburra specialist?

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

That is a huge discredit to his bowling he needed someone at other end to improve his record. Just a theory.

No it isnt, everyone loves having someone at other end tieing things up n putting pressure . Doesnt jaddu help ashwin in that regards

its not discredit its a reality how everyone number have improved further in last 2 years as now they performing like a unit 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Yes Mayank should be out based on his repeated failures in NZ.

Mayank did make some runs last NZ-A tour ....as compare to umesh whose sample size of failure is very large 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

  Moeen Ali was at  best a part timer.when he started. When he outbowls a multiple record holder at the test level.

it shud also say about how we played him to 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 He couldn't get Sam Curran out who smoked him all over the park. He could have won the test. He didn't. 

which test ?? 4th ?? 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

So if we use this yardstick then Ashwin shouldn't even tour abroad.

Ashwin competes with kuldeep n jadeja and he lost his place and jadeja himself isnt great, kuldeep has lost form. Ashwin hasnt been that bad overseas as ppl make out. He cud have gotten a 7 fer Last Sa tour if we wudnt have dropped 3-4 catches on his bowling. 

If ashwin records have problem away so does Lyon 

 

Also ashwin has won us series outside india like in SL (when they werent that bad) and WI , so still has more success then umesh 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

IT doesn't matter what he does in county. I have critizied Umesh in the past heavily as well. But you do not drop a bowler that have done well in the most recent series over someone who is not exactly  that good even in domestic.

Umesh shud be dropped for his own problem 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

At a strike rate of 60 he is not exactly inspiring confidence.

and umesh s/r of 60 outside india inspires confidence 

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

  How on earth Saini is better than Archer, Woakes who both struggled in NZ recently. I am not even sure how we can say Saini is better than Umesh simply because Saini has never played with Kookaburra.  Thakur in the Australian A tour was the highest wicket takur at 24 or so. So he is a kookaburra specialist?

he doesnt have to be better then archer n woakes he has to be better then umesh . Also he hasnt played till now so in the end u never knw .

Saini has played A games n LOI with kookabura and has shown more control then umesh 

 

So thakur taking wkts makes umesh better or u wanna makes stats meaningless of A tour coz in that case also we have a huge sample of Umesh international outside india 

[Laaloo]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

 

Looks more like sehwag to me.

[RajBan]

Umesh is decent, so is Dhawan. They are nothing exceptional but good enough to be under consideration. But if you have stand out talents, these guys should not be even in the squad and we should have the intelligence and courage to play them. For years we have played okayish players even if we have better players sitting outside who have a potentially higher performance benchmark. We just can't blame the team management alone and question their acumen when many fans themselves are satisfied with average performance and hesitant to change for better or lack aspirations.

[vvvslaxman]

Umesh's sample largely happens in Australia. He started well in 2011 which you somehow discount because he has lost his pace. No he hasn't lost his pace. What is the achievement of Saini to walk straight into the Test side? What are his most recent first class achievements or India A achievements? He did bowl with Kookaburra in the tour game. He was the most expensive bowler of the lot. Least you expect is doing better than umesh here. At best on par with him.  What has he done to come ahead of Sandeep Warrier, Avesh Khan, Mohammad SIraj? His record is not even as good as Unadkat at this level. His t20 exploits are clouding our judgement. In the couple of one dayers i saw he was losing steam in the backend. Lost his pace. Bowling mostly at 135k or below. There are a lot of unknown factors about him.  "Not playing a test match with Kookaburra yet" is not definitely a qualification to be part of the Indian Test side. He might or might not click. In 2018 A tourwhere top players like AListair cook took part  Siraj was the stand out bowler.  Only seamer that was worse than Saini on that tour was Vijay shankar in terms of average.

 

 

My problem is not replacing Umesh. My problem is replacing him with Saini who is not really better than him by any stretch of imagination. We just go on a whim he will do better because he has never played a test match with kookaburra. This is NZ, players are different. If Saini had bowled to the same set of beasts in Australia in those conditions we could say he is ahead of the pack.

Edited February 15, 2020 by vvvslaxman

[Austin 3:!6]

Why didnt Kohli batted in 1st innings? He is relatively out of form per his standards....so could have used this game for practice.

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[vvvslaxman]

34 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Why didnt Kohli batted in 1st innings? He is relatively out of form per his standards....so could have used this game for practice.

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No left arm swing bowler there or dibbly dobbly CDG there lol  

[Ankit_sharma03]

33 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Why didnt Kohli batted in 1st innings? He is relatively out of form per his standards....so could have used this game for practice.

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Bi players are said to have their own way of Prep, kohli has never been a big fan of practice game something he tried for whole team in SA tour but realised his team is diff then him. 

Sometimes have a peace of mind is enough, Sachin is said to have not done a single pratice session in 2003 Wc when he was also coming From NZ tour where like him everyone struggled. Heard stories about gavaskar that he didnt do much of pratice session in latter part of his career

[Austin 3:!6]

Bi players are said to have their own way of Prep, kohli has never been a big fan of practice game something he tried for whole team in SA tour but realised his team is diff then him. 
Sometimes have a peace of mind is enough, Sachin is said to have not done a single pratice session in 2003 Wc when he was also coming From NZ tour where like him everyone struggled. Heard stories about gavaskar that he didnt do much of pratice session in latter part of his career

Didnt Kohli said once that test matches need to be planned better and practice matches are must prior to tough tours?

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[Ankit_sharma03]

19 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Didnt Kohli said once that test matches need to be planned better and practice matches are must prior to tough tours?

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dont remember but he did say during SA tour last time that he ll prefer an intense net session over practice game where he can prep how he wants to. 

[SinNombre]

Looks like Kohli wasn't even on the field and Rahane was captaining, not impossible that he is favouring an independent net session instead.

 

Saini's bowling from the highlights was a lot off oohs and aahs interspersed with full length floaters (as described by express in the other thread) and back of the length balls which were easily pulled away for 4. Umesh was very similar.

 

Neither of them appeared consistently dangerous like Bumrah and Shami nor economical.

[SUMO]

Between Saini & Umesh pick one who can bowl long spells without leaking run.
I will go with Saini.

[FischerTal]

10 hours ago, sandeep said:

Thanks for doing this - much appreciated!

 

Bumrah looks incisive as usual, good to see.  Umesh also looking his usual self - not so good to see.  He looks a totally different bowler with the SG ball in hand in India.  I think Shami was bowling within himself, but then again, his action is total - weekend uncle trundling up to the crease, and then bam its 140 klicks coming at you, so can't be sure.  

 

India is going to definitely miss Ishant's accuracy and dependability.  If he was there and fully fit, I'd feel a lot more comfortable about India's chances this series.  If Bhuvi was there...

I shan’t cleared fitness test, hes on the way to NZ

[Ankit_sharma03]

shaw gone for 39

[Ankit_sharma03]

gill walks in to bat, chance for him to score more then shaw

[FischerTal]

Gill gone

[FischerTal]

Pant batting now

[Tendulkar1996]

Gill blew it,damn.

[Ankit_sharma03]

gill goes for 8

so now it will be shaw n mayank

[FischerTal]

This is why I don’t believe in hyping up these newbies until they have gone through atleast 1-2 seasons of Ranji along with a couple of A tours in SENA countries. 

 

Vihari, pujara and Kohli are our best hopes. Rahane too hopefully