Javed Akhtar calls Azaan Haraam!

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Azan is bigotry in itself. Why do Muslims do it in Hindu areas? Why do they proclaim that only their path is correct? In Germany they are looking to ban it arguing that it is hate speech, as if the migrants will let them lol.  

 

ALLAH is Most Great. ALLAH is Most Great.

ALLAH is Most Great. ALLAH is Most Great.

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of ALLAH.

I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of ALLAH.

 

As a dharmic I hate this message. And I don't really respect the Prophet. How can people find equivalence of temple bells with this nuisance 5x365? Why do Muslims torture us before sunrise every *ing day despite court order? Can't they do that part at least without loudspeaker? Rest of the day anyway we are dealing with other noises and it gets drowned out. Sorry this BS is an act of aggression and exhibition of Muslim street power. 

I just hope one day Azan and Quran indeed come under Hate Speech everywhere in the world. 

 

Problem is this that Muslims and Quran is not alone, but Bible is itself full of such hate speeches and it is difficult to ban bible in name of hate speech in the European countries. 

 

Atheists in Europe also want to ban that Muslims of Christians take their children to mosques/churches and tell them that they were born as Muslims or Christians or Hindus or Sikhs. We want that children should be taught about all the religions (including atheism), and when they are 18 years of age, then they should decide themselves which ideology they are going to follow. Unfortunately, it is again not going to happen while all religions have this problem of Child Brain Washing attach to them.

[Mariyam]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Azan is bigotry in itself. Why do Muslims do it in Hindu areas? Why do they proclaim that only their path is correct? In Germany they are looking to ban it arguing that it is hate speech, as if the migrants will let them lol.  

 

ALLAH is Most Great. ALLAH is Most Great.

ALLAH is Most Great. ALLAH is Most Great.

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of ALLAH.

I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of ALLAH.

 

As a dharmic I hate this message. And I don't really respect the Prophet. How can people find equivalence of temple bells with this nuisance 5x365? Why do Muslims torture us before sunrise every *ing day despite court order? Can't they do that part at least without loudspeaker? Rest of the day anyway we are dealing with other noises and it gets drowned out. Sorry this BS is an act of aggression and exhibition of Muslim street power. 

Don't follow what you term as bigotry here? Where is the hate speech exactly? You are using 'hate speech' very loosely.

Let us leave aside the loudspeaker issue, which I will address later, and only focus on the message. People have every right to *believe* anything that they want to. If someone believes his way is the best way, that is that person's prerogative.  

As long as he keeps his belief to himself and doesn't discriminate on the basis of it, nobody else should have any objection to what the belief is.

That is what secularism is!

 

Also, you've left out the most important verses of the Azaan. It is basically a call to prayer and not the actual prayer itself.

In addition to what you've said, it consists of:

hayyal al salah (hurry to pray)

hayyal al falah  (hurry to salvation)

 

About the loudspeaker part, I have to agree with Javed Akhtar and Sonu Nigam. It serves no purpose. Everybody has cell phones and there are so many apps on times for prayers and relevant alarms. Maybe the loudspeaker served a purpose 80 years ago. They simply don't today.

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Mariyam

[Mariyam]

16 hours ago, diga said:

^ lamerod back to spouting his usual BS... Let the ilk of Akthar & co worry about their own brethren

Javed Akhtar's definition of his 'own brethren' includes people of all faiths and even those of no faith whatsoever. Why project what is essentially your parochial outlook onto others?

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Mariyam

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

 

The azaan isn't simply offensive to 'dharmics', it should be offensive to secularists as well. "There is only one god but allah", is a very UN-SECULAR MESSAGE.

 

Would a true secularist defend un-secular behaviour? i don't think so.

Bro, if we think upon this issue with neutral minds, then issue is this that every Religion is actually offensive to all other religions while every religion is denying the "god/gods of all other religions and consider them to be the fake gods. 

 

As secularist, I find Azan offensive while Muslims are not keeping their religioun to themselves and making problems for others by using speakers, and this is enough reason for it to be banned. Remaining, I am also as offensive to Muslims while I also believethat there is No Allah, but all that was Muhammad's own Drama. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Alam_dar

[coffee_rules]

19 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Javed Akhtar's definition of his 'own brethren' includes people of all faiths and even those of no faith whatsoever. Why project what is essentially your parochial outlook onto others?

 

 

When he is defending Moghuls and Khilji, the people of other faiths suspect his intentions. Thats what diga is talking about.

[coffee_rules]

19 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Bro, if we think upon this issue with neutral minds, then issue is this that every Religion is actually offensive to all other religions while every religion is denying the "god/gods of all other religions and consider them to be the fake gods. 

 

As secularist, I find Azan offensive while Muslims are not keeping their religioun to themselves and making problems for others by using speakers, and this is enough reason for it to be banned. Remaining, I am also as offensive to Muslims while I also believethat there is No Allah, but all that was Muhammad's own Drama. 

Which other religion is shouting on loudspeakers 5 times a day that their god is great and that there is no other god than theirs?

[rageaddict]

7 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Bro, if we think upon this issue with neutral minds, then issue is this that every Religion is actually offensive to all other religions while every religion is denying the "god/gods of all other religions and consider them to be the fake gods.

 

As secularist, I find Azan offensive while Muslims are not keeping their religioun to themselves and making problems for others by using speakers, and this is enough reason for it to be banned. Remaining, I am also as offensive to Muslims while I also believethat there is No Allah, but all that was Muhammad's own Drama. 

The problem with you is that since you were born into a Muslim family and grew up with Islamic teachings  you have assumed that every other religion , just like Islam has concept of believers and non-believers where all other religions except your own are false.

 

All Indian Religions are pluralistic in Nature and general belief is that all religions lead to one God.  We dont have concept of kaffirs and Momins and creating divisons among people in name of religion.  This is a very Abrahamanic idea of God and the reason for all the conflicts in the World.  Thats the reason why we dont have a tradition of converting Non-Believers to our fold to save them from hellfire and bring on the right path. My religion is true , Your religion is true so where is the need to convert anyone?  

 

You may have given up Islam but your ex Islamic Brain  still cannot comprehend  the idea of Universal Brotherhood which Indian religions follow. Hindus never invaded foreign lands and destroyed the religious places of Worship of any natives unlike the Christians and Muslims who destroyed countless native cultures and civilizations to bring the unholy pagans on the exclusive path.  This is a very alien concept to the Indian way of living. 

 

20 years back I used to believe in same BS mainly due to ignorance that all religions are equal bla bla bla.  But slowly learnt about Islam and was surprised to realize that there are religions who claim monopoly on God and consider anyone out of their fold to be a Kaffir destined to burn in hellfire and must be coerced  to join the " Only True Religion ". This came across as very  sickening and hostile belief to me and explained what was the motivation behind Islamic invaders demolishing temples, enslaving and torturing natives to convert to Islam.

 

Now I believe that all religions are not equal,  but Indian Religions are infact Superior and Greatest for promoting Unity among different beliefs and respect for all religions. 

 

 

[Alam_dar]

1 hour ago, coffee_rules said:

When he is defending Moghuls and Khilji, the people of other faiths suspect his intentions. Thats what diga is talking about.

Nothing is perfect in this world. 

 

I don't know about all Moghuls, but I have seen Javed Akhtar praising Akbar only for going against the normal Muslim culture and still trying to implement more and more secular values. Akbar may not had been able to introduce 100% Secular values, but he was the best among all the Muslim Indian Rulers. 

 

Thus not only Javed Akhtar Sahib, but almost all secularist takes his era as somewhat role model. I highly doubt that they praise Aurangzeb. 

 

Now problem with right wing Hindus is this that they are not for the Secular Values, but they take one or few incidents of Akbar's era, and then DENY all the secular values that the introduced during his era. In fact, it is impossible for right wing Hindus to ever accept any Muslim Ruler as good one. Actually, right wing Hindus are so much narrow minded that they are even unable to praise modern day Hindu Secularists, then we could forget about Akbar. 

 

PS:

 

I don't know exactly what Javed Sahib said about Khilji, except this that without his presence, the Mangools would have invaded India. I think this statement is not wrong and historians do agree upon it that Khilji indeed presented resistance against the Mangools. 

 

PS:

 

Has Javed Sahib ever praised Ghaznavi for destroying the temple of Somnath? 

I don't think so.

But right wing Hindus neglect all good from Javed Sahib while they could only praise any right wing Hindu leader only. 

[Alam_dar]

44 minutes ago, rageaddict said:

The problem with you is that since you were born into a Muslim family and grew up with Islamic teachings  you have assumed that every other religion , just like Islam has concept of believers and non-believers where all other religions except your own are false.

 

All Indian Religions are pluralistic in Nature and general belief is that all religions lead to one God.  We dont have concept of kaffirs and Momins and creating divisons among people in name of religion.  This is a very Abrahamanic idea of God and the reason for all the conflicts in the World.  Thats the reason why we dont have a tradition of converting Non-Believers to our fold to save them from hellfire and bring on the right path. My religion is true , Your religion is true so where is the need to convert anyone?  

 

You may have given up Islam but your ex Islamic Brain  still cannot comprehend  the idea of Universal Brotherhood which Indian religions follow. Hindus never invaded foreign lands and destroyed the religious places of Worship of any natives unlike the Christians and Muslims who destroyed countless native cultures and civilizations to bring the unholy pagans on the exclusive path.  This is a very alien concept to the Indian way of living. 

20 years back I used to believe in same BS mainly due to ignorance that all religions are equal bla bla bla.  But slowly learnt about Islam and was surprised to realize that there are religions who claim monopoly on God and consider anyone out of their fold to be a Kaffir destined to burn in hellfire and must be coerced  to join the " Only True Religion ". This came across as very  sickening and hostile belief to me and explained what was the motivation behind Islamic invaders demolishing temples, enslaving and torturing natives to convert to Islam.

Now I believe that all religions are not equal,  but Indian Religions are infact Superior and Greatest for promoting Unity among different beliefs and respect for all religions. 

Actually it is not clear to many Hindu debaters that the issue of "Superior" religion vs "inferior" religion or pluralistic religion mean nothing when they are debating with atheists. 

 

Hindu religion still has the caste system and it does not grant equal rights to the women, and it's practices are illogical according to the atheist point of view. And ancient atheist "Charvakas" were also exactly of this opinion and thus they rebelled against the Hindu Dharam. And the Buddhists were also of this same opinion and thus they also rebelled and rejected the Hindu Dharma, despite it's claim of being pluralistic religion. 

 

And off course when we today see the Ghar Wapsi movement, or intolerance and violence by the saffron brigade, then all presents bad picture of hindu religion. 

[MechEng]

37 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Actually it is not clear to many Hindu debaters that the issue of "Superior" religion vs "inferior" religion or pluralistic religion mean nothing when they are debating with atheists. 

 

Hindu religion still has the caste system and it does not grant equal rights to the women, and it's practices are illogical according to the atheist point of view. And ancient atheist "Charvakas" were also exactly of this opinion and thus they rebelled against the Hindu Dharam. And the Buddhists were also of this same opinion and thus they also rebelled and rejected the Hindu Dharma, despite it's claim of being pluralistic religion. 

 

And off course when we today see the Ghar Wapsi movement, or intolerance and violence by the saffron brigade, then all presents bad picture of hindu religion. 

There is no point in criticizing caste system because it vanished away from South Asia during the British rule itself.

 

The real history of Buddha is doubtful, there are historical debates as to whether Buddha was a real person or not. There are similar discussions too about the existence of Jesus and Mohammed, and the fun fact is that ancient Syrian Christians called Jesus as 'Mohammed', you can Google it.

 

The reason why I am talking about Buddha this way is because if you read the story of Buddha, you'll realise how unrealistic it is, even the secularized version of Buddha's story minus his journey to 7 heavens (real Buddhists did believe that Buddha traveled to heaven). How can a king be naive enough to abandon his family overnight and travel alone to search enlightenment? There would be inevitable anarchy in the kingdom and also an invitation to foreign empires to invade! Also the secularized Buddhism is very life negating and negative in tone which goes against nature.

 

Ghar wapsi has nothing to do with religion, just political gimmick.

[Vilander]

10 hours ago, Manny_Pacquiao said:

I don't agree with the message - "there is only one god but allah" - and the loud blaring of the loudspeaker annoys the f*** out of me. And it has no place in a predominantly hindu nation.

In south india many mosques have this ritual almost song like Azaan which is super melodious and pleasing over time not mich unllike the bell sound from a temple. But i am told its haram to do it that way lol so yeah some mosques dont care they just roll differently.

[Vilander]

5 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Akbar may not had been able to introduce 100% Secular values, but he was the best among all the Muslim Indian Rulers.

Means jack ****  one is either good or bad in being secular. No muslim ruler was good enough since they were fundamental to varying degrees and intolerant.

[coffee_rules]

46 minutes ago, Vilander said:

In south india many mosques have this ritual almost song like Azaan which is super melodious and pleasing over time not mich unllike the bell sound from a temple. But i am told its haram to do it that way lol so yeah some mosques dont care they just roll differently.

It is the same melodious tune everywhere. Subjective, it is ok to listen to it passingly once in a while, but not 5 times a day. Also mandir ki ghanti evokes a sense of worship in devotees and is soothing. Plus it is not done in a loudspeaker at 5 am. Idiotic to compare the two

[Gollum]

8 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Do you agree with Sonu when he says he is against use of any electricity in any temple and gurdwara too for getting loud enough for other people outside the temples and gurdwaras?

Yes I do, laws should be applied uniformly. 

[Gollum]

9 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Don't follow what you term as bigotry here? Where is the hate speech exactly? You are using 'hate speech' very loosely.

Let us leave aside the loudspeaker issue, which I will address later, and only focus on the message. People have every right to *believe* anything that they want to. If someone believes his way is the best way, that is that person's prerogative.

Opening a mosque near every historical temple in India and then these words blaring on loudspeaker. 

 

ALLAH is Most Great. ALLAH is Most Great.

ALLAH is Most Great. ALLAH is Most Great.

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of ALLAH.

I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of ALLAH.

 

Exclusivist in nature, out of sync with dharmic thought process where we believe "Like so many rivers flowing from different mountains, all coming and mingling their waters in the sea, all the different religions, taking their births from different standpoints of fact, come unto Thee." <-Swami Vivekananda's words.

 

This is the main reason of communal conflict in India, Muslims being so rigid and hostile towards other faiths. This is not a post-1947 creation either, ever since Bin Qasim's arrival to Sindh this has been the motto for Muslim society and the ensuing genocide (greatest ever in human history), destruction, humiliation of infidels is for all of us to see. 

 

Bigotry and hate speech is normalized in the Quran, Islamic scriptures, in the mindset of Muslims (some do overcome that, some are raised in a more tolerant atmosphere, not talking about them) from a young age, no I am not using hate speech loosely here. Azan is just one of many manifestations of the hostility towards infidels. I would overlook this if just a few mosques indulge in this practice, but we have lakhs of mosques doing this at the same time everyday, often 2-3 in an area where there are maybe 10 odd Muslims, what is the message? Can you imagine an instance of a temple doing this 5x a day in a Muslim area saying 'Ganesh is the only God', 'Durga is the only God', 'Vishnu is the only God', 'Ramanuja/Chaitanya/Andal/Mirabai is the only prophet of the only true God'? Even the most hardcore Hindutvawadi doesn't indulge in this type of talk. If my nearby temple does this kind of thing I won't like it one bit because it can create bad blood within the Hindu community. I am mixing up deity with Paramatma here but an average person doesn't care about the difference, doesn't care about nuances, for him a Ganesh or Karthik is as important/dear as Allah is for an average Muslim. The equivalence of the azan would be so and so is the only God and that is problematic in many ways. 

Quote

As long as he keeps his belief to himself and doesn't discriminate on the basis of it, nobody else should have any objection to what the belief is.

Glad that you agree. If these things are confined within the premises of the mosques or Muslim households no issue. People will have objection when a normal person walking on the road going about his daily routine is met with a hostile message like only my God is true, my prophet is true....just another way of saying what all others believe in, pray to, love etc. are fake. Spoils the entire day because that isn't a positive message. Again look at this bit:

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

I testify that there is no god except ALLAH.

Is it necessary? 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Gollum

[Norman]

Credit where due @Alam_dar 's monkey balancing act is on point. 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

6 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Actually it is not clear to many Hindu debaters that the issue of "Superior" religion vs "inferior" religion or pluralistic religion mean nothing when they are debating with atheists. 

 

Hindu religion still has the caste system and it does not grant equal rights to the women, and it's practices are illogical according to the atheist point of view. And ancient atheist "Charvakas" were also exactly of this opinion and thus they rebelled against the Hindu Dharam. And the Buddhists were also of this same opinion and thus they also rebelled and rejected the Hindu Dharma, despite it's claim of being pluralistic religion. 

 

And off course when we today see the Ghar Wapsi movement, or intolerance and violence by the saffron brigade, then all presents bad picture of hindu religion. 

https://twitter.com/infinitchy/status/1259899321186529280?s=21

 

Kashmiri Pandits accepted secularism as much as all Hindus did. Our fault was in our numbers, not in ideology or beliefs. Not rocket science but needs to be restated every few months.

[coffee_rules]

46 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Yes I do, laws should be applied uniformly. 

Let azaan be done once in a while like in temples, why is it the same? Don’t let moderates and atheists equate azaan with anything from others, there is no temple blasting ghanti on loudspeaker 5 times day for 365 days

[Gollum]

5 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Let azaan be done once in a while like in temples, why is it the same? Don’t let moderates and atheists equate azaan with anything from others, there is no temple blasting ghanti on loudspeaker 5 times day for 365 days

I am not equating azaan with anything, look at my reply above to Mariyam, what I thinnk about it. I am ok if religions are allowed the use of loudspeakers during festivals, not every day and certainly not so early in the morning (or late night). If laws are applied uniformly temples and gurudwaras will be least affected anyway. 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Gollum

[Gollum]

This is what happens when kafirs use loudspeakers near Muslim areas, can cite many other examples just from the state of Bengal. How long must secularism/tolerance remain a one-way street in India?

 

Telangana: Priest dies after being assaulted by imam over using loudspeaker

The deceased was the priest at the Sai Baba temple near Pochamma Maidan junction in Warangal.

Quote

A 70-year-old temple priest was killed after being assaulted by an imam. The deceased, Devunoor Satyanarayana was the priest at the Sai Baba temple near Pochamma Maidan junction in Warangal.

According to police, on October 26, Satyanarayana was performing pooja with the speaker turned on. A local imam, Syeed Hussain, reportedly asked him to turn off the speaker. However, as the priest refused to do so, Hussain assaulted him, police said.

They said the priest died while undergoing treatment at Nizam's Institute of Medical Sciences in Hyderabad.

The 33-year-old accused allegedly assaulted the priest inside the temple. Following the assault, the priest developed internal injuries and was taken to the hospital for treatment.

A case has been registered and the accused has been booked under Section 307 (Attempt to murder) of the Indian Penal Code. He has been sent to judicial custody.

Meanwhile, BJP leader Swami Paripoornananda condemned the killing and also protested against it.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/telangana-priest-dies-after-being-allegedly-assaulted-by-imam-over-using-loudspeaker-1381038-2018-11-02

https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/telangana/2018/nov/02/telangana-priest-allegedly-beaten-up-by-imam-over-loudspeaker-dies-1893266.html

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/current-affairs/271018/hyderabad-imam-arrested-for-beating-priest.html

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/telangana/assaulted-temple-priest-succumbs-to-injuries/article25395092.ece