Batting when both McGrath and Warne are playing

[Real McCoy]

53 minutes ago, Gollum said:

@Real McCoy equivalent will be:

 

Federer saying Canas was his toughest opponent, tbh the Argentine did beat the Swiss 2x in 2007 Sunshine Double, that year happened to be one of Fed's greatest seasons: 3 GS, RG final where he played very well against God of clay, won ATP WTF and a few Masters.

 

Nadal saying Davydenko was his toughest opponent, Russian with winning record and stopped him in 3 finals in 2008-10 period which was peak Rafa.

 

Djokovic saying Roddick, Safin, even Kyrgios for that matter.

 

Vijay Amritraj had winning H2H against Laver, Stan Smith, Vilas, Nastase. So he was the toughest opponent for those ATGs?

 

So many good-great bowlers had the edge over Sachin: Donald, Pollock, Anderson, Murali, McGrath, Vaas, Saqlain etc. and he chooses Cronje.

Federer also says Nadal was his toughest opponent which is true. Even after 2017, when he has a 5-1 edge over him, his record still is 16-24 against him. Back to the topic, Cronje must be laughing in heaven thinking about this statement from aila

[Real McCoy]

1 minute ago, Stan AF said:

You should know me better than that. I have no problem with you or rasgulla orgollum for that matter even velu ribbing with laaloo and other tendulkar fans. I enjoy that banter.

But this kind of misleading stat nonsense is just not on.

@zen is what he is. He likes his stats and uses his constitutional right to post all those stats, hardik pandyas achievements and wolves

[zen]

12 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

Shady nonsense as usual from him.

Gain some basic understanding first

 

7 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

To imply that overall Dravid played better than Tendulkar vs Australia is absolutely laughable.

 Tendulkar may have his faults but this unabashed bashing of an indian cricket legend in ICF is absolutely disgusting.

 

Hilarious post. Dravid has done relatively well when he has played in the middle order. Relative to top order batsmen, he does not make it. The table is about performances in top order and middle order.

 

If you think Dravid is not good, feel free to ignore his numbers. Table is inclusive. You cannot be attacking Dravid, who is a Indian legend too. 

 

Many players on the list are legends. VVS is at the top with an avg of 70 in the top order. Does that mean everyone else is being bashed? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stan AF]

I have a good understanding of you, mate. Don't worry. You use skewed filters and adjusted stats to push your agenda here. That's all who you are. That's what you have been doing here from time immemorial.

 

Btw i wasn't attacking dravid. I was posting his full numbers that you very conveniently left out for obvious reasons. For future references I will avoid your innumerable agenda threads on this forum. They are all a waste of time here anyway.

[Real McCoy]

1 hour ago, zen said:

We have to be honest about our players' performances. When it comes to this thread, it is about evaluating which batsmen do well against a side like Aus when McGrath & Warne are playing. It encompasses both Indian and international players. But what do we see from this delusional group:

 

• Thinking that since Sachin is not at the top, the thread is against him. As if the whole world revolves around him and is conducting conspiracies 
• Trying to unnecessarily turn it into a Dravid v Sachin for e.g., when even if Dravid averages 0, it does not change Sachin's performance v others on the list (there are quite a few batsmen)
• Also attempting to make an issue out of Sachin pics instead of having some innocent fun   
• No appreciation shown to players who have done well such as Laxman, Sehwag, Lara, Pietersen, etc. Rather they will look for avenues to bring these players down to hide Sachin behind them (ironically)
• Rather than discussing who did good/bad per the topic, some guys will go on a tangent to show how other unrelated cricketers (who could be ahead of Sachin) did badly v some bowler not even on this thread (funny if those batsmen play in top order, countering the new ball, which Sachin never did, and as if it changes anything about Sachin)  
• And these guys will go around trying to write against almost every other player on this planet in general as if that makes Sachin any better 

 

I won't be surprised if some of these guys would even dress up like Sachin in that picture if Sachin asks them to. I take such behavior as comic relief but the forum could go down the drain with such delusional attitude. We blame Pakistanis (though appreciate the comic relief), but this delusional group is similar .... Anyways, for their effort to pray Sachin, I hope that Sachin at least offers these fans a glass of water if they go to meet him

 

 

I agree. Fanboyism is aila's fans. They don't hesitate to bring Dravid down to make their case. Even though I'm a huge MSD fan, I really feel sorry for all those Dravid fans who have to go through this BS. They will pull anyone down if they are above their god in some area or another. God is above them in all areas maybe fast bowling too. God is better than Mcgrath in bowling and better than Rhodes in fielding

[zen]

1 minute ago, Stan AF said:

I have a good understanding of you, mate. Don't worry. You use skewed filters and adjusted stats to push your agenda here. That's all who you are. That's what you have been doing here from time immemorial.

I know folks like you as well .... don't understand much but have an opinion on everything 

 

 

Quote

Btw i wasn't attacking dravid. I was posting his full numbers that you very conveniently left out for obvious reasons.

 

You did attack Dravid by implying that he is a lesser legend. If you do not even realize, that speaks with the type of ignorance that many have to deal with on this forum.  The OP clearly has two table listed out for top order and middle order with various players. The players automatically fall into each category. I do not know what your issue is if Dravid has done well in the middle order. And when there are other players on the list. 

 

 

Quote

For future references I will avoid your innumerable agenda threads on this forum. They are all a waste of time here anyway.

 

Such topics are for people who understand the subject. At times, people who want to have some innocent fun also tag in. 

 

I do not start my threads with people like you on my mind. In fact, I hardly notice you or read your post (they are dumb, full of strawman, and  speak of undereducation, imo) on this forum. 

 

 

Quote

But this kind of misleading stat nonsense is just not on. I don't like pissing on a man's hard earned runs.

That is what you are doing for likes of Dravid and possible others on the list. 

 

 

[Jimmy Cliff]

48 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but how is Dravid averaging 55 here??. AFAIK, there were 3 series where dravid played against both mcgrath or/and warne. 1999, 2001 & 2004.

 

 

Averaged 15.5  in 1999/00 (93 runs from 6 innings). Totally gone with the wind here in this series.

56.33 in 2001/04 (338 from 6 innings). One high score of 180.

27.83 in 2004 (167 runs from 6 innings). Again not fab 4 level.

 

There were 10 matches, 598 runs from 18 innings. Average 33.22

Am I missing something????

 

 

 

 

Filtered out his numbers at number 3 to make him look better than you know who . OP is known for such antics. In the past he used to filter out Gavaskar's numbers in the first two world cups and claim he "did well" in ICC tournaments . I hope Gavaskar is paying him some baksheesh/stipend for the daily muthmaar threads on him . 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Jimmy Cliff

[zen]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Filtered out his numbers at number 3 to make him look better than you know who . OP is known for such antics. In the past he used to filter out Gavaskar's numbers in the first two world cups and claim he "did well" in ICC tournaments . I hope Gavaskar is paying him some baksheesh/stipend for the daily muthmaar threads on him . 

 

 

 

Buddy, it is from the time Ind became a relatively well known force in ODIs (1983 WC) .... And the stats are not only for ICC but includes various world events (the thread title clearly indicates that for those who can read) as well 

 

Thanks for going over my old threads! 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by zen

[Real McCoy]

12 hours ago, zen said:

 

#1-3:

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  or Zimbabwe

Opposition team Australia

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1995

Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper

Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS)  or SK Warne (AUS)

Batting position between 1 and 3

Qualifications batting average greater than or equal to 40  and runs scored greater than or equal to 200  and matches played greater than or equal to 3

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 6 of 6

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
VVS Laxman (INDIA)	1999-2001	5	9	0	633	281	70.33	1001	63.23	2	2	1	98	0
V Sehwag (INDIA)	2004-2004	3	6	1	286	155	57.20	409	69.92	1	1	1	42	0
Saeed Anwar (PAK)	1999-1999	3	6	0	282	119	47.00	484	58.26	1	2	1	38	1
HJH Marshall (NZ)	2005-2005	3	6	0	269	146	44.83	622	43.24	1	1	1	38	1
MP Vaughan (ENG)	2002-2005	6	12	0	537	177	44.75	959	55.99	2	0	1	61	5
AP Gurusinha (SL)	1995-1996	3	6	0	242	143	40.33	588	41.15	1	0	0	21	1

 

 

#4-7:

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia  or England  or India  or New Zealand  or Pakistan  or South Africa  or Sri Lanka  or West Indies  or Zimbabwe

Opposition team Australia

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1995

Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper

Involving all of the players GD McGrath (AUS)  or SK Warne (AUS)

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications batting average greater than or equal to 40  and runs scored greater than or equal to 200  and matches played greater than or equal to 3

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 11 of 11

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
BC Lara (WI)	1996-2005	9	16	1	1007	226	67.13	1729	58.24	4	2	0	130	8
KP Pietersen (ENG)	2005-2007	8	16	2	804	158	57.42	1420	56.61	2	5	1	80	13
R Dravid (INDIA)	1999-2004	4	6	0	332	180	55.33	735	45.17	1	1	0	37	1
CL Cairns (NZ)	1997-2001	7	11	0	557	109	50.63	879	63.36	1	4	0	62	15
GP Thorpe (ENG)	1995-2001	8	15	2	598	138	46.00	1060	56.41	2	3	1	82	0
WJ Cronje (SA)	1997-1998	5	9	1	367	88	45.87	819	44.81	0	4	2	38	3
JH Kallis (SA)	1997-2006	9	17	3	624	111	44.57	1424	43.82	1	5	0	76	1
NJ Astle (NZ)	2000-2005	11	21	2	811	156*	42.68	1507	53.81	1	5	1	108	1
SR Tendulkar (INDIA)	1999-2004	7	14	0	592	126	42.28	1067	55.48	2	4	1	76	3
PD Collingwood (ENG)	2005-2007	6	12	1	450	206	40.90	1054	42.69	1	1	0	46	2
HP Tillakaratne (SL)	1995-1996	3	6	0	245	119	40.83	592	41.38	1	1	0	17	0

I removed Warne from the list and focused only on Mcgrath. Here are the numbers. Sachin doesn't even make the list. His averages drops below 40

 

 

• Tests
• ODIs
• T20Is
• All Test/ODI/T20I

Batting | Bowling | Fielding | All-round | Partnership | Team | Umpire and referee | Aggregate/overall

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies or Zimbabwe

Opposition team Australia

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1995

Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper

Involving the player GD McGrath (AUS)

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications batting average greater than or equal to 40 and runs scored greater than or equal to 200 and matches played greater than or equal to 3

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 11 of 11

First Previous

Next Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
KP Pietersen (ENG)	2005-2007	8	16	2	804	158	57.42	1420	56.61	2	5	1	80	13
BC Lara (WI)	1996-2005	16	29	1	1601	226	57.17	2641	60.62	6	4	2	208	17
CL Cairns (NZ)	1997-2001	7	11	0	557	109	50.63	879	63.36	1	4	0	62	15
R Dravid (INDIA)	1996-2004	6	8	0	399	180	49.87	873	45.70	1	1	0	45	1
WJ Cronje (SA)	1997-1998	5	9	1	367	88	45.87	819	44.81	0	4	2	38	3
GP Thorpe (ENG)	1995-2001	9	17	2	684	138	45.60	1255	54.50	2	4	1	89	0
JH Kallis (SA)	1997-2006	9	17	3	624	111	44.57	1424	43.82	1	5	0	76	1
MR Ramprakash (ENG)	1995-2001	11	22	2	863	133	43.15	1989	43.38	1	5	0	91	2
NJ Astle (NZ)	2000-2005	11	21	2	811	156*	42.68	1507	53.81	1	5	1	108	1
PD Collingwood (ENG)	2005-2007	6	12	1	450	206	40.90	1054	42.69	1	1	0	46	2
HP Tillakaratne (SL)	1995-1996	3	6	0	245	119	40.83	592	41.38	1	1	0	17	0

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[zen]

34 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I agree. Fanboyism is aila's fans. They don't hesitate to bring Dravid down to make their case. Even though I'm a huge MSD fan, I really feel sorry for all those Dravid fans who have to go through this BS. They will pull anyone down if they are above their god in some area or another. God is above them in all areas maybe fast bowling too. God is better than Mcgrath in bowling and better than Rhodes in fielding

 

Why would anyone have an issue if Dravid averages 55 in the MO?   .... They want to compare Dravis in TO + MO with Tendulkar in MO (and when Tendulkar has shown no inclination to adapt his batting position relatively speaking) 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

I removed Warne from the list and focused only on Mcgrath. Here are the numbers. Sachin doesn't even make the list. His averages drops below 40

 

 

• Tests
• ODIs
• T20Is
• All Test/ODI/T20I

Batting | Bowling | Fielding | All-round | Partnership | Team | Umpire and referee | Aggregate/overall

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia or England or India or New Zealand or Pakistan or South Africa or Sri Lanka or West Indies or Zimbabwe

Opposition team Australia

Start of match date greater than or equal to 1 Jan 1995

Wicketkeeper not as wicketkeeper

Involving the player GD McGrath (AUS)

Batting position between 4 and 7

Qualifications batting average greater than or equal to 40 and runs scored greater than or equal to 200 and matches played greater than or equal to 3

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 11 of 11

First Previous

Next Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
KP Pietersen (ENG)	2005-2007	8	16	2	804	158	57.42	1420	56.61	2	5	1	80	13
BC Lara (WI)	1996-2005	16	29	1	1601	226	57.17	2641	60.62	6	4	2	208	17
CL Cairns (NZ)	1997-2001	7	11	0	557	109	50.63	879	63.36	1	4	0	62	15
R Dravid (INDIA)	1996-2004	6	8	0	399	180	49.87	873	45.70	1	1	0	45	1
WJ Cronje (SA)	1997-1998	5	9	1	367	88	45.87	819	44.81	0	4	2	38	3
GP Thorpe (ENG)	1995-2001	9	17	2	684	138	45.60	1255	54.50	2	4	1	89	0
JH Kallis (SA)	1997-2006	9	17	3	624	111	44.57	1424	43.82	1	5	0	76	1
MR Ramprakash (ENG)	1995-2001	11	22	2	863	133	43.15	1989	43.38	1	5	0	91	2
NJ Astle (NZ)	2000-2005	11	21	2	811	156*	42.68	1507	53.81	1	5	1	108	1
PD Collingwood (ENG)	2005-2007	6	12	1	450	206	40.90	1054	42.69	1	1	0	46	2
HP Tillakaratne (SL)	1995-1996	3	6	0	245	119	40.83	592	41.38	1	1	0	17	0

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Exactly, there are various ways in which Tendulkar does not make it (because he is not that great). However,  for some folks, it is not Tendulkar but stats that are at the fault.

 

 

[Real McCoy]

41 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

I have a good understanding of you, mate. Don't worry. You use skewed filters and adjusted stats to push your agenda here. That's all who you are. That's what you have been doing here from time immemorial.

 

Btw i wasn't attacking dravid. I was posting his full numbers that you very conveniently left out for obvious reasons. For future references I will avoid your innumerable agenda threads on this forum. They are all a waste of time here anyway.

What is this then?

1 hour ago, Stan AF said:

Correct me if i'm wrong but how is Dravid averaging 55 here??. AFAIK, there were 3 series where dravid played against both mcgrath or/and warne. 1999, 2001 & 2004.

 

 

Averaged 15.5  in 1999/00 (93 runs from 6 innings). Totally gone with the wind here in this series.

56.33 in 2001/04 (338 from 6 innings). One high score of 180.

27.83 in 2004 (167 runs from 6 innings). Again not fab 4 level.

 

There were 10 matches, 598 runs from 18 innings. Average 33.22

Am I missing something????

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Stan AF said:

For obvious reasons I haven't included the ICC vs australia in 2005 where dravid scored 0 & 23 in which both mcgrath and warne played.

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/14758/scorecard/221840/australia-vs-icc-world-xi-only-test-icc-world-xi-tour-of-australia-2005-06

 

[Real McCoy]

8 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Why would anyone have an issue if Dravid averages 55 in the MO?   .... They want to compare Dravis in TO + MO with Tendulkar in MO (and when Tendulkar has shown no inclination to adapt his batting position relatively speaking) 

Yeah I remember during the 2011 series in Eng, Gambhir was injured and Dravid was forced to open but Sachin didn't even move to no.3 and sent Laxman instead.

[zen]

5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

What is this then?

 

I don't think he even has a clue of what wrong he has doing 

 

It is like he went to a Chinese restaurant expecting the food to be Italian, and thinks that the restaurant is showing the wrong menu 

[SK_IH]

If I go by pure memory, I don't remember any batsman who dominated McGrath in tests, he is the legit GOAT.

However, Warne was mastered by various batsmen throughout his career, Sidhu, Tendulkar, Lara, Saleem Malik, Laxman and later on Pietersen played him with definite disdain.

 

I think the premise of this topic is flawed. It may very well could be the case the players scored most of their runs against other bowlers, when these two were playing 

[zen]

1 minute ago, Real McCoy said:

Yeah I remember during the 2011 series in Eng, Gambhir was injured and Dravid was forced to open but Sachin didn't even move to no.3 and sent Laxman instead.

In 200 tests, Tendulkar has only batted once in the top order iirc. When Dravid played in MO, he did well and some folks can't even see that (I think it may be due to the declaration Dravid made in Pakistan  )

 

In 1994, WI was 0-1 down in Ind. Lara opened in WI's 2nd innings to set the momentum to help it to win the game. 

[Jimmy Cliff]

20 minutes ago, zen said:

 

Buddy, it is from the time Ind became a relatively well known force in ODIs (1983 WC) .... And the stats are not only for ICC but includes various world events (the thread title clearly indicates that for those who can read) as well 

 

Thanks for going over my old threads! 

 

Anytime. I appreciate comedy wherever I find it .

[Jimmy Cliff]

Del

Edited August 29, 2020 by Jimmy Cliff
Duplicate

[Jimmy Cliff]

Del

Edited August 29, 2020 by Jimmy Cliff
Duplicate

[zen]

5 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

I think the premise of this topic is flawed. It may very well could be the case the players scored most of their runs against other bowlers, when these two were playing 

That would be part of the game (and strategy). If you are a good batsman and stay long enough, chances are you would have to face challenge from the two. If you depart before even taking on that challenge - the less said about the batsman, the better