Indian batsmen must develop sweep and reverse sweep game

[rollingstoned]

23 minutes ago, Gollum said:

2 years gone by since creation of this thread. Where we at? Must develop some release shots against spinners....Santner, Sodhi, Zampa, Maharaj, Shamsi, Moeen, Rashid, Shadab, Nawaz, Hasaranga etc. have been bullying us non-stop in middle overs. Key area where we are surrendering huge advantages practically every match. Opponent spinners vs our bats, Chahal/Jaddu/XYZ vs opponent batters....don't see it tilting in our favor any time soon. 

Against darters the kind of foot movement Pujara used to show at his best is what is needed. You can't premeditate too much. 

As for sweep I guess the shot in general is not encouraged by coaches at grassroots level. I heard Arun lal mention it once and the best exponents of the sweep in general have been non Asians. 

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

2 years gone by since creation of this thread. Where we at? Must develop some release shots against spinners....Santner, Sodhi, Zampa, Maharaj, Shamsi, Moeen, Rashid, Shadab, Nawaz, Hasaranga etc. have been bullying us non-stop in middle overs. Key area where we are surrendering huge advantages practically every match. Opponent spinners vs our bats, Chahal/Jaddu/XYZ vs opponent batters....don't see it tilting in our favor any time soon. 

some people like getting "bullied"... and by some, I mean most of our bats.

[Gollum]

It is 2024. England and others play these innovative shots even in test cricket, our guys can't play them in T20s and ODIs. 

 

Gooch swept us away in 1987 SF

 

Cook employed sweep to great success in 2012

 

This game reverse sweep killed us....can't remember a better exhibition of this shot since Andy Flower's monster series here. 

[Frustrated]

Was about to say this.   Bcci is all about collecting hefty pay cheques and conducting IPeeL.    Focusing on developing secondary skills & x factor like Reverse Sweep, Paddle Sweep bla bla is among least of their priorities.  We won't win any big tournament with such irresponsible/incompetent board/TM.   

[Gollum]

Few guys like Vijay, Pant and Rohit have employed sweep shot to decent success, but not reverse sweep (Pant though played that shot successfully against Anderson). Heck even Rahane swept a very dangerous Lyon away in 2017 Bengaluru 2nd innings in that epic series turning partnership with Pujara.

 

2 instances where I remember Indian batsmen using both these shots to great effect

 

1. Karun Nair in his 300 in Chennai test, 2016. He played those two shots better than any player of Bazball England ever has. Mastery at its highest form.

 

2. Ashwin in his 100 on rank turner in Chennai 2021. Again 3 different types of sweeps and reverse sweep as well, all to great effect.

 

These were 2 innings where I think the batsmen got 50% of runs with variations of these two shots. Karun obviously got more runs, but Ashwin's was on a much tougher wicket. Dunno why Ashwin has reduced playing these shots after that. 

 

Edited January 28 by Gollum

[Lone Wolf]

Such a legendary thread...  

 

Don't know if you guys know some key exchanges between KP & old farts like Bakwaskar & Bhogle happened over last 2 days. 

Over switch hit & Reverse sweeps...  And KP tried to educate these old farts about how advance cricket is now & these shots are gun skills to have.. 

 

And when Indian batters looked clueless he pressed the same question to Sunny G & Idiot Bhogle who had no response to it. 

 

Edited January 28 by Lone Wolf

[Gollum]

6 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Such a legendary thread...  

 

Don't know if you guys know some key exchanges between KP & old farts like Bakwaskar & Bhogle happened over last 2 days. 

Over switch hit & Reverse sweeps...  And KP tried to educate these old farts about how advance cricket is now & these shots are gun skills to have.. 

 

And when Indian batters looked clueless he pressed the same question to Sunny G & Idiot Bhogle who had no response to it. 

 

Har cheez mein 3rd class hai hamare log, even when it comes to commentators, experts, umpires, curators. Heck Pakistan had that show called Pavilion during WC, and I was pleasantly surprised by their analysis and neutrality, lack of fanboyism. Indian ex-cricketers can't even match western neighbors, never mind Aussies and English ones. 

 

Sunny G is senile and Bhogle is a disgrace. Ian Bishop is too polite and suffers our idiocy in silence, hope KP keeps grilling the Indian commies whole series, let the fools be exposed for what they are. 

Edited January 28 by Gollum

[Chaos]

Cant see one player doing it minus rohit…even then he aint that great. We need iyer effing kicked out

[zaqw222222]

Forget sweep, we do not use our feet to spinners. Previous generation of batters used to use their feet not just for big shots but also for singles but current generation hardly use their feet.

[Nikhil_cric]

Not necessary in Tests but I would like to see these in T20's a lot more. 

[Prabhdeep Singh]

Sweep and reverse sweep is for limited batsmen from outside Asia.

 

Indian batsmen need re discover using their feet in attack and defence.

 

Look at someone like VVS or Sehwag. I am sure BCCI can arrange a sort camp.

 

Also need to play against the spin sometimes, truly gifted players like Sehwag used to do this, this will mess up the line and length of spinner and field setting of captain.

 

Also this England batting line up may score quickly but it is definitely ugly to watch, no artistry whatsoever.

 

Only good player to watch is Ben Stokes.

 

This is why it is so frustrating as follower of Indian cricket, the gulf in talent (India has the most talented batsmen) is hugh but the mental toughness is lacking in crunch moments for Indian Team.

Edited January 28 by Prabhdeep Singh

[BacktoCricaddict]

And also a plan for the bowlers to counter those shots from the opposition. It's not like the TM/coaches didn't know this was coming. Can't 3 good spinners change something up? It's just disappointing to see the TM outsmarted. 

[Gollum]

Ok compared to 90s/00s generation these players aren't that good at using their feet, using depth of crease, playing against spin. Then shouldn't they work on other skills to make up for inadequacies elsewhere...this is what visiting batsmen from Eng, RSA, Aus used to do those days....Hayden owned us in a series with his sweeps, Andy Flower with reverse sweep, Cronje and Steve Waugh developed killer slog sweep, Cook with his sweep. With so much T20s and ODIs being played, multi format batsmen in Indian cricket, why can't we use these shots confidently against do kaudi ke spinners like Hartley and Root?

[rollingstoned]

It has to come from grassroots coaching, most of the Indian players who play the sweep prodigiously to a competent level are self taught and mavericks. If we cannot boss spin the way we used to without sweeping, we have to use the relatively more 'inelegant' methods others who are not used to playing spin use in dealing with it. 

[Suhaan]

12 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Such a legendary thread...  

 

Don't know if you guys know some key exchanges between KP & old farts like Bakwaskar & Bhogle happened over last 2 days. 

Over switch hit & Reverse sweeps...  And KP tried to educate these old farts about how advance cricket is now & these shots are gun skills to have.. 

 

And when Indian batters looked clueless he pressed the same question to Sunny G & Idiot Bhogle who had no response to it. 

 

Bhogle bhadua doesn't understand cricket one bit,he has a living purely on scripting metaphors to write fake poems on sissy panty men of Indian cricket

[Vijy]

12 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

And also a plan for the bowlers to counter those shots from the opposition. It's not like the TM/coaches didn't know this was coming. Can't 3 good spinners change something up? It's just disappointing to see the TM outsmarted. 

they don't have the brains to begin with.

[BacktoCricaddict]

5 hours ago, Vijy said:

they don't have the brains to begin with.

TBH, I think they are plenty smart. It seems more like complacency and lack of attention to detail.

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

TBH, I think they are plenty smart. It seems more like complacency and lack of attention to detail.

I don't think they are. they have none of the prep and systematic approach of Oz, Eng, NZ

[BacktoCricaddict]

11 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I don't think they are. they have none of the prep and systematic approach of Oz, Eng, NZ

So, we are quibbling about the definition of "smart". :-)

 

I think they are intelligent people, but agree that they are probably not systematic in their approach. Some coaches can compensate for that by being strong motivators. I am not sure this staff has that skill.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

So, we are quibbling about the definition of "smart". :-)

 

I think they are intelligent people, but agree that they are probably not systematic in their approach. Some coaches can compensate for that by being strong motivators. I am not sure this staff has that skill.

well, I agree they are intelligent, but so are most teams not named East/West Pakistan. hence, I feel the bar should be higher than "intelligence", but should translate to concrete ways by which said intelligence can be reified into results.

 

I wrote this high-falutin sentence above because, IIRC, we are both academics