Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, express bowling said: I can't vouch for Imran as I have not watched him bowl at the beginning of his career. But I don't think even you have Akram was never medium pace every over. I have seen him bowl at the start of his career. In some overs he was sharp and in other overs he was medium -fast. I have never seen a medium pacer being turned to a genuine fast bowler. I am talking about actually seeing and not stories of periods when I did not watch cricket. I am talking about this notion that a fast bowler is born a fast bowler and cant be developed. Thats absolutely ridiculous. If I am not wrong, Andrew Flintoff started off as a military medium bowler and started bowling 150ish in about 5-6 yrs. In any event, a fast bowler can be developed. I am not talking about hearsay. I am just talking about this ridiculous notion. And yes, I have not seen Imran Khan bowling in 73, but from whatever I have read, he was around 75mph bowler.
maniac Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: I am talking about this notion that a fast bowler is born a fast bowler and cant be developed. Thats absolutely ridiculous. If I am not wrong, Andrew Flintoff started off as a military medium bowler and started bowling 150ish in about 5-6 yrs. In any event, a fast bowler can be developed. I am not talking about hearsay. I am just talking about this ridiculous notion. And yes, I have not seen Imran Khan bowling in 73, but from whatever I have read, he was around 75mph bowler. bowling fast consistently comes from strength and endurance. Look at our bowlers they tend to get faster as the test match or series progresses. On the other hand we see Pakistani bowlers or even guys like Archer not able to sustain the intensity as the game gets longer. I won’t call a guy who can hit few deliveries in T20 at 150+ as fast but someone who has a consistent average speed of 140+ not accounting tor variations is fast according to me. Right now Indian and Australian attack are the fastest in the world followed by England and SA
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 1 minute ago, maniac said: bowling fast consistently comes from strength and endurance. Look at our bowlers they tend to get faster as the test match or series progresses. On the other hand we see Pakistani bowlers or even guys like Archer not able to sustain the intensity as the game gets longer. I won’t call a guy who can hit few deliveries in T20 at 150+ as fast but someone who has a consistent average speed of 140+ not accounting tor variations is fast according to me. Right now Indian and Australian attack are the fastest in the world followed by England and SA I dont disagree with you. I was making a different point. But I am not saying that a bowler cant be developed to bowl regularly at 145+. As a matter of fact, if you notice then any bowler who has looked after his physique and bowling biomechanics hits 140 easily. Such notions that fast bowlers cant be developed have been spread by stupid cricketers themselves. Mostly the oldies. Just like saying an Indian cant be bowling fast because they dont eat beef. Suhaan and maniac 1 1
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: I am talking about this notion that a fast bowler is born a fast bowler and cant be developed. Thats absolutely ridiculous. The ability has to be there to bowl genuine fast , although it may not be utilized fully at the beginning of one's career. That is what is meant by a fast bowler is born. 5 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: If I am not wrong, Andrew Flintoff started off as a military medium bowler and started bowling 150ish in about 5-6 yrs. In any event, a fast bowler can be developed. I am not talking about hearsay. I am just talking about this ridiculous notion. Flintoff was never military medium. He always had the ability to hurry batsmen. He was an all-rounder and he gained some pace when he focused more on his bowling. 5 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: And yes, I have not seen Imran Khan bowling in 73, but from whatever I have read, he was around 75mph bowler. I won't give a strong opinion on something I have not seen. Mosher 1
Suhaan Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 Nortje 150 vishalvirsingh, express bowling and Mosher 1 2
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, express bowling said: Quote Quote The ability has to be there to bowl genuine fast , although it may not be utilized fully at the beginning of one's career. That is what is meant by a fast bowler is born. What is this ability to bowl fast that you are referring to bro? Anyone who is learning to bowl fast, and has any talent to bowl, can be developed. I am making that point. A decent amount of athleticism is required to excel in any sport. And if someone has that, my point is, he can be developed to bowl fast. Theres nothing like limitation. Just needs proper training. Quote Flintoff was never military medium. He always had the ability to hurry batsmen. He was an all-rounder and he gained some pace when he focused more on his bowling. Not sure about that. Quote Quote I won't give a strong opinion on something I have not seen. Sure. But that still doesnt change the fact that he wasnt genuine quick or even fast medium. Edited October 9, 2020 by Rightarmfast
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: As a matter of fact, if you notice then any bowler who has looked after his physique and bowling biomechanics hits 140 easily. Although there is no hard and fast definition of what genuine fast bowling is ... bowling some deliveries at 90 mph + in a spell has generally been considered as a genuine fast bowling spell. And 90 mph is 144.8 kph. I guess bowling a significant percentage of deliveries over 140 kph and fastest balls of a spell at 145 k+ would be the minimum cut off for genuine pace. Not many pacers are able to do this for any length of time. Mosher 1
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: Sure. But that still doesnt change the fact that he wasnt genuine quick or even fast medium. And how do I know that this is a fact ?
rkt.india Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: I dont disagree with you. I was making a different point. But I am not saying that a bowler cant be developed to bowl regularly at 145+. As a matter of fact, if you notice then any bowler who has looked after his physique and bowling biomechanics hits 140 easily. Such notions that fast bowlers cant be developed have been spread by stupid cricketers themselves. Mostly the oldies. Just like saying an Indian cant be bowling fast because they dont eat beef. Any coach who says he can turn a 25-26 year old bowler bowling 130 kph to 150 kph, he is fooling you. Nothing else. express bowling 1
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Any coach who says he can turn a 25-26 year old bowler bowling 130 kph to 150 kph, he is fooling you. Nothing else. But which coach said that? :) And how did you come up with a number of 25/26 yrs old? I am talking about young boys. In their early teens. 15-16 yr old boys. A proper training from that age, and a will to bowl fast and doing the basics right will result in a pace which is considered genuine quick by people.
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, express bowling said: And how do I know that this is a fact ? Well, that is up to you whether you want to accept he wasnt genuine pace when he started off. How do you know he was?
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, express bowling said: And how do I know that this is a fact ? Anyway, you might like this video :)
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: Well, that is up to you whether you want to accept he wasnt genuine pace when he started off. How do you know he was? I don't know either way. Which is why I am not using his example. Many genuine quicks start as fast-medium when young and / or their run-up and action are not optimized for 90 mph bowling in the early parts of their careers. My guess is, that was the case with Imran in the early 1970s too. But that is just a guess and I don't claim it as a fact. Edited October 9, 2020 by express bowling Mosher 1
Rightarmfast Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 5 minutes ago, express bowling said: I don't know either way. Which is why I am not using his example. Many genuine quicks start as fast-medium when young and / or their run-up and action are not optimized for 90 mph bowling in the early parts of their careers. My guess is, that was the case with Imran in the early 1970s too. But that is just a guess and I don't claim it as a fact. Anyway, I hope you watched the video I posted. So I am talking about building a fast bowler. Developing a 15/16/17 yr old to bowl fast. Which is possible. So, this talk of 'You cant develop a fast bowler, they are born to be one', is absolutely trash. I am not talking about changing a 30 yr old medium pacer to genuine quick. Although, with the right motivation, I dont think theres any reason an older guy cant increase pace to a good extent. Like Bhuvi did.
rkt.india Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: Anyway, I hope you watched the video I posted. So I am talking about building a fast bowler. Developing a 15/16/17 yr old to bowl fast. Which is possible. So, this talk of 'You cant develop a fast bowler, they are born to be one', is absolutely trash. I am not talking about changing a 30 yr old medium pacer to genuine quick. Although, with the right motivation, I dont think theres any reason an older guy cant increase pace to a good extent. Like Bhuvi did. Bhuvi was always 135 kph bowler when he started, quicker version of PK, gained 5-8 kph but only in short formats. Bowled 128-135 in tests.
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: Anyway, you might like this video :) I do like this video. Because .... 1) He talks about being a medium pacer as a teenager. Teenagers (a) Before their bodies are fully developed (b) Before their run-up and action are optimized for pace and bounce, that is they are developing as bowlers, are obviously bowling at lesser pace than what they would do as developed pacers in their mid-20s. 2) He says that he had a natural inswing and his coach used to tell him that he would lose his inswing if he tried to bowl quicker. ( That was a popular and wrong notion till the 1990s ) That is his coach tried to model him as a medium pacer, thus not utilizing his ability as a fast bowler. 3) He says that there is no other such example of a medium pacer turning into a fast bowler. " Jab koi fast bowler ata hai to pata chalta hai ". Edited October 9, 2020 by express bowling Mosher 1
prudent_kreeda Posted October 9, 2020 Posted October 9, 2020 RFMji, RKTji & Expressji You people are gems in this Forum. Please chill .. Lets move on ...
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Rightarmfast said: So I am talking about building a fast bowler. Developing a 15/16/17 yr old to bowl fast. Which is possible. Huh ! That happens all the time. But, after full professional training to be a quick bowler and the body developing to be a fast bowler ... not everyone will be able to bowl at 90 mph +. No amount of training and body development will be able to turn every prospective teenage pacer training professionally to be a 90 mph bowler. You have to be born with the ability to bowl at 90 mph ( you will achieve it after training of course ) That is what is meant by a fast bowler is born. It does not mean that proper training is not needed. Quote I am not talking about changing a 30 yr old medium pacer to genuine quick. Although, with the right motivation, I dont think theres any reason an older guy cant increase pace to a good extent. Like Bhuvi did. Every professional pacer can increase pace with the right training. When have I disputed that ? But every professional pacer won't be able to bowl 90 mph + for any decent career length, no matter how much they train. Not talking about an one off ball. Edited October 9, 2020 by express bowling Mosher 1
express bowling Posted October 9, 2020 Author Posted October 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, maniac said: no one is ready made with all those skills, and speaking of Tyagi he seems to have at least 4-5 of those 6 skills and hence he shoots up the pecking order. Absolutely ! I have liked Tyagi as a future fast bowling prospect for quite some time. His height and bounce is something our pace attack needs. Edited October 9, 2020 by express bowling Mosher and maniac 1 1
Vilander Posted October 10, 2020 Posted October 10, 2020 7 hours ago, rkt.india said: who has what kind of muscle fibers depend on your neuro-type velu 1
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