Vilander Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 7 hours ago, mishra said: suspect the Sukhois faced same issue R77 has shorter range than aim120 simple and su30 stuck to the conditions mig21 was not supposed to chase the f16 into enemy territory abhi while brave did go against pre established conditions. Ind now has meteor and astra mk1 has 10 to 30 km advantage in bvr
G_B_ Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 R77 is good only on paper.... When you buy russian expected actual performance 70% of that officially reported. wc2023 and Khota 2
Mariyam Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 A pig destroyed an F16? Gives the adage 'if pigs could fly' a whole new dimension. G_B_ 1
Khota Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Vilander said: Again dude read the fine print what was the anti air ground defence was it dense , were the opposing air assets worthy not some ww2 heritage ? Us often goes up against poor air forces and of course desimates them. Not that us af is not the best they are , but there are many counters till bvr missiles became so dominant mig29s and su27s absolutely owned f16 and f15 respectively in wvr Edge. So US moved on to bvr when others caught up they moved to stealth when others are catching up they will move to drone swarm and other 6th gen tech. Its like that. These kills were against Mig 21 and better. I am not aware of AtoA kill of F-16. I can go on and on but F-16 is one of the best ever built. I never heard of Su27 owning an F-16 in actual combat. Maybe video games etc. I do know IAF shot more than double digit Migs without any loss.
Khota Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Vilander said: R77 has shorter range than aim120 simple and su30 stuck to the conditions mig21 was not supposed to chase the f16 into enemy territory abhi while brave did go against pre established conditions. Ind now has meteor and astra mk1 has 10 to 30 km advantage in bvr Indian pilots were never happy with any Russian missiles. They never worked in real life. Sidewinders tilted the Falkland war in 3 days. In modern combat no aircraft has outperformed F-16. Indwin 1
G_B_ Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Khota said: These kills were against Mig 21 and better. I am not aware of AtoA kill of F-16. I can go on and on but F-16 is one of the best ever built. I never heard of Su27 owning an F-16 in actual combat. Maybe video games etc. I do know IAF shot more than double digit Migs without any loss. Would you not compare the su27 to the f15... Mig29 to f16 is more of a right comparsion Vilander 1
Khota Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Would you not compare the su27 to the f15... Mig29 to f16 is more of a right comparsion F-15 has more apt comparison with Mig 29. F-16 is a cheaper aircraft with multi role. Indwin and Vilander 1 1
mishra Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 7 hours ago, Khota said: I dont consider Pakistan a threat or a modern airforce. Current version of Rafael is very capable but almost at 6x the cost. Rafel has some advantage over it but I dont know really if it is there against US versions of F-16. None of the french crap is battle tested but documented kills by F-16 are unbelievable. Being part of NATO , this French crap was allowed by American to test dogfight against F-16. As i said, during initial phase of Rafale, it was unable to acquire locks on F-16. But that just needed some firmware upgrade. Its not that Rafale needed some big change. Current Rafale is miles ahead of F-16 , there is no comparison at all
Vilander Posted March 19, 2021 Posted March 19, 2021 6 hours ago, Khota said: modern combat no aircraft has outperformed F-16. Again same thing very generic statement like outperformed best aircraft etc. It’s just your opinion.
Vilander Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 6 hours ago, Khota said: F-15 has more apt comparison with Mig 29. F-16 is a cheaper aircraft with multi role. f15 is to us what su27 is to Russia f16 is to us what mig29 is to Russia. f16 is not cheap in all configurations and all blocks and it’s cheaper variants are not as capable in several regimes as other competitors. A fighter aircraft is not just the aircraft it’s the iteration configuration weapons load regime it is designed and configured for and the integrated weapon systems effectiveness and edge. Clarke 1
Vilander Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 6 hours ago, Khota said: These kills were against Mig 21 and better. I am not aware of AtoA kill of F-16. I can go on and on but F-16 is one of the best ever built. I never heard of Su27 owning an F-16 in actual combat. Maybe video games etc. I do know IAF shot more than double digit Migs without any loss. Mig21 is 3rd gen you confirm what I said, and what is above how many and against which country lol did the opposing airforce have any awacs hehe. in kargil mig29s of iaf had bvr and pad f16s did not iaf got air dominance it’s factual example. There is no truth in a statement that f16 is the best fighter air craft lol .. what are you doing man. This is alrounders don’t exist again. Anyways it’s a worthless discussion if it’s without substantiation.
Vilander Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 8 hours ago, G_B_ said: R77 is good only on paper.... When you buy russian expected actual performance 70% of that officially reported. There are extended range variants Indians dint have those prior to balkot now they have. Besides astra is interegrated and meteor with Rafale so for now India has dominance. If oaf gets f16 ball 70 it’s a different story. G_B_ 1
Khota Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 14 minutes ago, Vilander said: Again same thing very generic statement like outperformed best aircraft etc. It’s just your opinion. Not generic at all. Go look at combat numbers.
Khota Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Vilander said: Mig21 is 3rd gen you confirm what I said, and what is above how many and against which country lol did the opposing airforce have any awacs hehe. in kargil mig29s of iaf had bvr and pad f16s did not iaf got air dominance it’s factual example. There is no truth in a statement that f16 is the best fighter air craft lol .. what are you doing man. This is alrounders don’t exist again. Anyways it’s a worthless discussion if it’s without substantiation. Maybe you dont get it. Explaing you will be like a circular logic.
Vilander Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 This is a good source to understand f16 versions paf has block 15 mostly and few block 52. https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article3.html context is very important
Vilander Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Khota said: Not generic at all. Go look at combat numbers. Oh combat numbers ok...
Khota Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 13 minutes ago, Vilander said: f15 is to us what su27 is to Russia f16 is to us what mig29 is to Russia. f16 is not cheap in all configurations and all blocks and it’s cheaper variants are not as capable in several regimes as other competitors. A fighter aircraft is not just the aircraft it’s the iteration configuration weapons load regime it is designed and configured for and the integrated weapon systems effectiveness and edge. Su27 came from Sukhoi and Mig 29 from Mikoyan. Both were twin engine like F-15 for air superiority,
Vilander Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Khota said: Su27 came from Sukhoi and Mig 29 from Mikoyan. Both were twin engine like F-15 for air superiority, dude it’s not just abt twin engine, there is weight and endurance range for every air craft and certain elements in its design make it feasible for the air craft to give up endurance and gain agility str itr wing loading etc, for instance in Indian mmrca or Canadian or aus mmrca competitions there would have been single engine jets like gripes f 16 as well as twin engines like f18 in case Of India mig 35 etc. At a high level heavy fighters have long range endurance and Russian fighters generally are longer range due to massive size of the country. They are wvr kings due to thrust vectoring in su27 derivatives later models as well. But that does not make them win in all regimes as Russian weapons are not equivalent to western weapons.. anyways cheers I have said enough.
Khota Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, Vilander said: dude it’s not just abt twin engine, there is weight and endurance range for every air craft and certain elements in its design make it feasible for the air craft to give up endurance and gain agility str itr wing loading etc, for instance in Indian mmrca or Canadian or aus mmrca competitions there would have been single engine jets like gripes f 16 as well as twin engines like f18 in case Of India mig 35 etc. At a high level heavy fighters have long range endurance and Russian fighters generally are longer range due to massive size of the country. They are wvr kings due to thrust vectoring in su27 derivatives later models as well. But that does not make them win in all regimes as Russian weapons are not equivalent to western weapons.. anyways cheers I have said enough. Instead of taking all the time go look at the numbers. F-15 twin engine came in response to Mig -25. The intent was high speed. F-16 single engine was a low cost solution which did everything. Once again see the kill numbers instead or writing specs down. That may impress others, it will not impress me.
Vilander Posted March 20, 2021 Posted March 20, 2021 27 minutes ago, Khota said: Instead of taking all the time go look at the numbers. F-15 twin engine came in response to Mig -25. The intent was high speed. F-16 single engine was a low cost solution which did everything. Once again see the kill numbers instead or writing specs down. That may impress others, it will not impress me. OK
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