PunterLog Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 Rich Punjab farmers are practicing modern day slavery in their farms. Labourers found in border areas by BSF are mentally unstable and highly drugged so that they can be used for long hours. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/bonded-labourers-on-punjab-farms-mha-prods-punjab-govt-for-action/articleshow/81872558.cms This is the main reason why Rich farmers from Punjab are opposing the farm laws. They don't want the small labourers to thrive. They want to continue to use them as slaves.
Singh bling Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 51 minutes ago, PunterLog said: Rich Punjab farmers are practicing modern day slavery in their farms. Labourers found in border areas by BSF are mentally unstable and highly drugged so that they can be used for long hours. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/bonded-labourers-on-punjab-farms-mha-prods-punjab-govt-for-action/articleshow/81872558.cms This is the main reason why Rich farmers from Punjab are opposing the farm laws. They don't want the small labourers to thrive. They want to continue to use them as slaves. Bonded labour exists in all over india. There are eight million bonded labourers in india. When NGO and international organizations point toward it you call it conspiracy but now suddenly you are seeing bonded labour all over Punjab. 86% punjab farmers are in debt . They are in position to employ bonded labour https://en.gaonconnection.com/death-by-debt-86-farming-households-in-punjab-under-debt-over-16606-farmers-died-by-suicide-between-2000-2015/ jf1gp_1 and Khota 2
G_B_ Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Singh bling said: Bonded labour exists in all over india. There are eight million bonded labourers in india. When NGO and international organizations point toward it you call it conspiracy but now suddenly you are seeing bonded labour all over Punjab. 86% punjab farmers are in debt . They are in position to employ bonded labour https://en.gaonconnection.com/death-by-debt-86-farming-households-in-punjab-under-debt-over-16606-farmers-died-by-suicide-between-2000-2015/ Ok, so why are many in punjab against the idea of directly paying farmers bypassing the mandi agents. The woman in this article gets rs 6000 dirrctly from the government of india. This figure is set to rise over time. That is guarenteed income which is much more guarenteed than msp. The article also highlights the need for reform given that the farm is 1.5 acre and set to be further divided amongst any children in the future making it even smaller in size. Re bonded labour. While its true that it exists all over india, its more prominent in punjab and haryana where the median size of the farm is larger. Several times its the mandi agents who lease several plots from farmers in debt and use labour from up and bihar to work the land. The movie Udta Punjab captured an aspect of this. Though its a movie and far from an academic examination it highlights issues with bonded labour. PunterLog and coffee_rules 2
PunterLog Posted April 3, 2021 Author Posted April 3, 2021 18 minutes ago, Singh bling said: Bonded labour exists in all over india. There are eight million bonded labourers in india. When NGO and international organizations point toward it you call it conspiracy but now suddenly you are seeing bonded labour all over Punjab. 86% punjab farmers are in debt . They are in position to employ bonded labour https://en.gaonconnection.com/death-by-debt-86-farming-households-in-punjab-under-debt-over-16606-farmers-died-by-suicide-between-2000-2015/ If 86% Punjab farmers are in debt, doesn't that mean that whatever they were doing so far hasn't worked? Isn't it time to mend the methods and look for alternatives? Can you explain why Punjab CM keeps insisting on paying farmers via mandi agents and refuses to do direct transfers? Do you realize how people see it? We see it as nothing but corruption. I don't know about other states, but in my state we have a shortage of labor as farmers can't afford to pay the wages demanded by labor. So, Bonded labor is absolutely out of the question. I see that Punjab farmers are suffering. The solution is to find alternatives not double down on failed policies. beetle 1
Khota Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 2 hours ago, G_B_ said: Ok, so why are many in punjab against the idea of directly paying farmers bypassing the mandi agents. The woman in this article gets rs 6000 dirrctly from the government of india. This figure is set to rise over time. That is guarenteed income which is much more guarenteed than msp. The article also highlights the need for reform given that the farm is 1.5 acre and set to be further divided amongst any children in the future making it even smaller in size. Re bonded labour. While its true that it exists all over india, its more prominent in punjab and haryana where the median size of the farm is larger. Several times its the mandi agents who lease several plots from farmers in debt and use labour from up and bihar to work the land. The movie Udta Punjab captured an aspect of this. Though its a movie and far from an academic examination it highlights issues with bonded labour. Because Mandi agents float loans. Which bank is going to float loan to someone who already is in debt? Is it a good system? No it is not but that is the only system that has worked for a while. These changes need to be incremental not done overnight.
Khota Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 2 hours ago, PunterLog said: If 86% Punjab farmers are in debt, doesn't that mean that whatever they were doing so far hasn't worked? Isn't it time to mend the methods and look for alternatives? Can you explain why Punjab CM keeps insisting on paying farmers via mandi agents and refuses to do direct transfers? Do you realize how people see it? We see it as nothing but corruption. I don't know about other states, but in my state we have a shortage of labor as farmers can't afford to pay the wages demanded by labor. So, Bonded labor is absolutely out of the question. I see that Punjab farmers are suffering. The solution is to find alternatives not double down on failed policies. It has not worked and it will get worse if MSP is removed. You keep on flogging the same horse again and again without understanding anything. As far as drugs are concerned that is a massive failure of everyone. Punjabi politicians are so cottupt that they are part of the problem. BSF is there to help but drugs keep on coming from Pakistan.
PunterLog Posted April 3, 2021 Author Posted April 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, Khota said: It has not worked and it will get worse if MSP is removed. But, it isn't being removed. Quote You keep on flogging the same horse again and again without understanding anything. Pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps saying that MSP is being removed when it's not. Quote As far as drugs are concerned that is a massive failure of everyone. Punjabi politicians are so cottupt that they are part of the problem. BSF is there to help but drugs keep on coming from Pakistan. Well, there's no easy solution to this. It's obvious that Pak is doing everything possible to destabilize Punjab.
Khota Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 5 hours ago, PunterLog said: But, it isn't being removed. Pretty rich coming from a guy who keeps saying that MSP is being removed when it's not. Well, there's no easy solution to this. It's obvious that Pak is doing everything possible to destabilize Punjab. And that is where the trust issue is. Farmers are not convinced and there is the trust deficit. They can always put it in writing which they refuse to do so.
coffee_rules Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Khota said: Because Mandi agents float loans. Which bank is going to float loan to someone who already is in debt? Is it a good system? No it is not but that is the only system that has worked for a while. These changes need to be incremental not done overnight. with such as-hoc unsecured loans, no wonder there are so many poor farmers are always in debt and when these goons middlemen come back for vasooli, there are many who get threatened and kill themselves as well. Cut out their illegal loans that are a burden on the small farmer.
Khota Posted April 3, 2021 Posted April 3, 2021 4 hours ago, coffee_rules said: with such as-hoc unsecured loans, no wonder there are so many poor farmers are always in debt and when these goons middlemen come back for vasooli, there are many who get threatened and kill themselves as well. Cut out their illegal loans that are a burden on the small farmer. Agreed on the gist of what you are saying but who will step in to do that? The interest rates are astronomical but these are the only people willing to float a loan. It is a terrible situation that cannot be solved overnight. Definitely not by IAS officers making policy with no real world experience.
PunterLog Posted April 4, 2021 Author Posted April 4, 2021 8 hours ago, Khota said: And that is where the trust issue is. Farmers are not convinced and there is the trust deficit. They can always put it in writing which they refuse to do so. C'mon this isn't true. Government announced that they are ready for talks and amendements but headstrong Farmer leaders have been saying that all newly passed laws must be repealed.
Singh bling Posted April 4, 2021 Posted April 4, 2021 19 hours ago, PunterLog said: If 86% Punjab farmers are in debt, doesn't that mean that whatever they were doing so far hasn't worked? Isn't it time to mend the methods and look for alternatives? True but please tell how failed reforms from west which ruined farmers in Europe and USA will help? 19 hours ago, PunterLog said: Can you explain why Punjab CM keeps insisting on paying farmers via mandi agents and refuses to do direct transfers? Do you realize how people see it? We see it as nothing but corruption. Very Simple cultivator is not always going to be land owner. There are people which take land on lease. Then there are which are tilling land of nri relatives. Do you want msp to be given to Canadian NRI instead of indian cultivator ?
Khota Posted April 4, 2021 Posted April 4, 2021 8 hours ago, PunterLog said: C'mon this isn't true. Government announced that they are ready for talks and amendements but headstrong Farmer leaders have been saying that all newly passed laws must be repealed. If it is not true then I am wrong. My understanding is that it is not in writing. But it is also true some of the negotiations on both sides are not being done in good faith.
Khota Posted April 4, 2021 Posted April 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Clarke said: Yayyy, we're back to msp. That is the only way farmaing can be sustained all over the world with price moderation.
mishra Posted April 4, 2021 Posted April 4, 2021 On 4/3/2021 at 11:50 AM, Singh bling said: Bonded labour exists in all over india. There are eight million bonded labourers in india. When NGO and international organizations point toward it you call it conspiracy but now suddenly you are seeing bonded labour all over Punjab. 86% punjab farmers are in debt . They are in position to employ bonded labour https://en.gaonconnection.com/death-by-debt-86-farming-households-in-punjab-under-debt-over-16606-farmers-died-by-suicide-between-2000-2015/ Bcos it been pointed by BSF.
coffee_rules Posted April 4, 2021 Posted April 4, 2021 4 hours ago, Clarke said: Yayyy, we're back to msp. In b4, videos of non-godi media Clarke 1
Singh bling Posted April 4, 2021 Posted April 4, 2021 1 hour ago, mishra said: Bcos it been pointed by BSF. Rejecting the letter as totally ‘unwarranted and factually incorrect’, the Chief Minister said neither the data nor the said reports submitted by the BSF authorities were in tune with the content of the letter. “The MHA letter talks of Abohar also, while the fact is that there is no case of Abohar or Fazilka districts,” he pointed out, adding that none of the conclusions of the Centre were borne out by facts. Further, it was not the job of the BSF to investigate such matters, and they were only responsible for detaining any person found to be roaming along the border in suspicious circumstances, and handing them over to the local police, he added. Before shooting out such a letter and making it public through the media, the MHA should have checked the facts and verified the information from the state government instead of making false accusations against farmers, and charging them with indulging in bonded labour and converting the labourers into drug addicts, he added. He was referring to the MHA statement that “illegal human trafficking syndicates exploit these gullible labourers and Punjabi farmers hook them to drugs to make them work for long hours in their fields.” “All the 58 cases alleged by the Centre have been investigated thoroughly and nothing of this kind has been found,” said Amarinder, lambasting MHA for spreading such vicious and false propaganda. Giving details, he said of the 58 detainees, four belong to different areas of Punjab and were found roaming near the Indo-Pak border by the BSF, while three were found to be intellectually disabled. One Paramjit Singh r/o Patiala, apprehended near Pathankot, was mentally disabled from the last more than 20 years and had left his home about two months before his detention, Roorh Singh r/o Gurdaspur had to be admitted to the Institute of Mental Health, Amritsar, on the day of his apprehension. Another person namely Sukhwinder Singh r/o SBS Nagar was also facing mental health issue. Subsequently, all these 3 persons were handed over to their family members on the same day, after verification by the local police. Further, 16 of the 58 detainees were found to be intellectually disabled, of whom four were suffering from this disorder since childhood. One Babu Singh r/o Buland Sher, UP was even having psychiatric treatment from Agra and was handed over to his family members on the production of his medical record. Even the identify of three persons apprehended by BSF could not be established due to their mental health conditions, said the Chief Minister, rejecting even the possibility of these men being kept as bonded labourers for farm activities. It has also come to light that 14 persons had come to Punjab only a few days/weeks prior to their apprehension, hence the conclusion that they were working as bonded labourers in farms since long “is totally refuted,” said the Chief Minister, adding that none of the persons apprehended has made any allegation of being forcibly kept as farm labourers under inhuman conditions even before the courts. Nothing on record suggests that these persons were forcibly infused drugs to keep them working for long hours, and moreover, it is incorrect to conclude that the intellectual disability of these person is drug induced, said Amarinder. https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/punjab/amarinder-slams-mha-for-false-propaganda-on-bonded-labour-against-punjab-farmers-234581
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