Real McCoy Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 even after proving so many inconsistencies and the so called efficacy rate is coming down to even 40%, these bots keep on keeping on. guh getya boosta shaat lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said: You of course would refuse to consider the idea that some of the decisions made by the likes of Fauci and entities like FDA/CDC are based on conflict of interest rather than public health so that's that. I do strongly consider, which is exactly why I go in and dig up the original journal papers to see if Ivermectin or any other inexpensive treatment is truly being suppressed by these influential buggers, or, if the studies are really bad (both possibilities are legitimate). I have invited you to do the same (the paper is right there in front of you to analyze, with no input from me or Fauci or anyone else). Also, I strongly opposed Remdesivir right from the beginning based on this kind of analysis. Like you, I would truly love to see IM or aspirin or some other inexpensive/free medication be mass produced and given out for free if they will TRULY help. But I would hate for people to just take them based on false hope, become complacent, and then get seriously ill with CoViD19. And I am not saying that it does not work; I have not reached any conclusion yet. All I know is that some of the work that pointed in the positive direction for IM is shoddy/fraudulent. Still up in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 Just now, BacktoCricaddict said: Yeah, but the difference is that vaccine data so far are robust and statistically sound. The vaccine data can't be considered statistically sound until we get a clear and verifiable picture of all cause mortality/hospitalization post vaccination (post either the first or 2nd dose). We don't live in a la la land where we can simply fast forward from the day of the first jab to the date when we are considered fully vaccinated. Adverse events - Covid related or otherwise - during the phase between the 1st jab and the time when a person is considered fully vaccinated need to be documented and taken into account while judging the safety profile of the vaccine. Even this wouldn't exactly be complete data as some of the adverse events may occur after months if not years. If there are people who have somehow managed to keep themselves safe throughout the Pandemic but end up being Covid positive shortly after the first jab, then it is a matter of concern. Not all such cases can be brushed aside by simply accusing the individuals of letting their guard down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Jimmy Cliff said: The vaccine data can't be considered statistically sound until we get a clear and verifiable picture of all cause mortality/hospitalization post vaccination (post either the first or 2nd dose). We don't live in a la la land where we can simply fast forward from the day of the first jab to the date when we are considered fully vaccinated. Adverse events - Covid related or otherwise - during the phase between the 1st jab and the time when a person is considered fully vaccinated need to be documented and taken into account while judging the safety profile of the vaccine. Even this wouldn't exactly be complete data as some of the adverse events may occur after months if not years. If there are people who have somehow managed to keep themselves safe throughout the Pandemic but end up being Covid positive shortly after the first jab, then it is a matter of concern. Not all such cases can be brushed aside by simply accusing the individuals of letting their guard down. I said the "efficacy" data are statistically sound :-) (TBF, I added it in edit, so you may not have caught that). Of course, long-term safety data will not be documented in the short-term. Even a dunce like me knows that! No one is accusing individuals of letting their guard down after 1 dose. In most cases, people must do it - for work, for emergencies, for provisions, etc. That still does not mean that they should count as being vaccinated. Why? it is simply a fact that our immune system takes that much time to develop the immune memory. So, to use those people to say that the vaccines did not succeed is not justified. Edited August 12, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 45 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: I said the "efficacy" data are statistically sound :-). Of course, long-term safety data will not be documented in the short-term. Even a dunce like me knows that ... Right. But even in the short term, there needs to verifiable data regarding the all cause mortality/hospitalization post the first jab up until the person is considered fully vaccinated. Shouldn't be hard to achieve with all the surveillance tools available. The efficacy data is fine and dandy if we pretend people only die from Covid but it doesn't tell us about the probability of other adverse events unrelated to Covid post vaccination even in the short term. Data like this for instance should be available for all people who have got at least one jab so far. Additionally, we need to deal with the Elephant in the room which is Covid positive cases after the first jab. Pfizer trials for instance showed a higher number of suspected Covid cases in the vaccine group compared to the placebo group within 7 days of vaccination. Is there enough data that suggests this is not happening post vaccine rollout? It would also be interesting to find out the mortality/hospitalization rates of Covid positive cases post the first jab compared to Covid positive cases in the unvaccinated population. This can be used to find out if there is increased vulnerability after the first shot or not. All of this information would be much more useful in finding out the short term safety data of the vaccines instead of merely looking at the efficacy after 2 jabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 56 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said: No one is accusing individuals of letting their guard down after 1 dose. In most cases, people must do it - for work, for emergencies, for provisions, etc. That still does not mean that they should count as being vaccinated. Why? it is simply a fact that our immune system takes that much time to develop the immune memory. So, to use those people to say that the vaccines did not succeed is not justified. Aren't the mRNA vaccines designed to evade the immune system? At least Moderna is. Regardless, it is still important to know where a person who has got the first jab stands in comparison to an unvaccinated person in case of a possible Covid infection. Is he still better off? Or worse? If one is infected while the immune system is still being "primed", does the risk of hospitalization/death increase or otherwise. This sort of data is needed to make an informed decision before vaccination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said: I do strongly consider, which is exactly why I go in and dig up the original journal papers to see if Ivermectin or any other inexpensive treatment is truly being suppressed by these influential buggers, or, if the studies are really bad (both possibilities are legitimate). I have invited you to do the same (the paper is right there in front of you to analyze, with no input from me or Fauci or anyone else). Also, I strongly opposed Remdesivir right from the beginning based on this kind of analysis. Like you, I would truly love to see IM or aspirin or some other inexpensive/free medication be mass produced and given out for free if they will TRULY help. But I would hate for people to just take them based on false hope, become complacent, and then get seriously ill with CoViD19. And I am not saying that it does not work; I have not reached any conclusion yet. All I know is that some of the work that pointed in the positive direction for IM is shoddy/fraudulent. Still up in the air. Again, people have every right to reject Ivermectin and opt for vaccination if they feel that is best suited for them. If the frontline doctors who have used it with success so far, state it is no longer as effective with newer strains, I will accept it. As things stand, there is no Ivermectin mandate and no one is being threatened to be fired from their jobs if they refuse to take Ivermectin. Everyone can do their due diligence before opting for it or not. Tomorrow if that is made mandatory, I would have a much higher bar for it. BacktoCricaddict 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted August 12, 2021 Author Share Posted August 12, 2021 @Jimmy Cliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Aren't the mRNA vaccines designed to evade the immune system? At least Moderna is. Regardless, it is still important to know where a person who has got the first jab stands in comparison to an unvaccinated person in case of a possible Covid infection. Is he still better off? Or worse? If one is infected while the immune system is still being "primed", does the risk of hospitalization/death increase or otherwise. This sort of data is needed to make an informed decision before vaccination. The mRNA is just a code for a protein. It will itself will evade the immune system because you don't want it destroyed in your blood before it enters your cells. Once it enters a cell, it will be read and a single protein (in this case the spike protein) will be made by the cells. That spike protein will trigger the immune response. Once it is triggered, the immune system will sound alarm bells, make and send antibodies and killer cells to destroy the spike proteins that were made, but most importantly will create memory cells and store them. Some of these memory cells produce antibodies, while others are killer T-cells. This process is very well-studied; it takes time to develop and often needs to be nudged twice before it is completely ready for the real thing. Edited August 12, 2021 by BacktoCricaddict Jimmy Cliff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BacktoCricaddict Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said: Right. But even in the short term, there needs to verifiable data regarding the all cause mortality/hospitalization post the first jab up until the person is considered fully vaccinated. Shouldn't be hard to achieve with all the surveillance tools available. The efficacy data is fine and dandy if we pretend people only die from Covid but it doesn't tell us about the probability of other adverse events unrelated to Covid post vaccination even in the short term. Data like this for instance should be available for all people who have got at least one jab so far. Additionally, we need to deal with the Elephant in the room which is Covid positive cases after the first jab. Pfizer trials for instance showed a higher number of suspected Covid cases in the vaccine group compared to the placebo group within 7 days of vaccination. Is there enough data that suggests this is not happening post vaccine rollout? It would also be interesting to find out the mortality/hospitalization rates of Covid positive cases post the first jab compared to Covid positive cases in the unvaccinated population. This can be used to find out if there is increased vulnerability after the first shot or not. All of this information would be much more useful in finding out the short term safety data of the vaccines instead of merely looking at the efficacy after 2 jabs. Interesting to say the least. Here is the original paper. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.full.pdf Observe Table S5 and S6. Focus on the n1 column for severe disease endpoint. Then focus on VE (vaccine efficacy) number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Cliff Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said: Interesting to say the least. Here is the original paper. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1.full.pdf Observe Table S5 and S6. Focus on the n1 column for severe disease endpoint. Then focus on VE (vaccine efficacy) number. S5 and S6 look very good. S3 and S4 are important since they attempt to cover all serious adverse events. If this kind of granular data related to serious adverse events/deaths was being tracked real time for all folks who got vaccinated since the start of the year, it would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted August 13, 2021 Author Share Posted August 13, 2021 5 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said: S5 and S6 look very good. S3 and S4 are important since they attempt to cover all serious adverse events. If this kind of granular data related to serious adverse events/deaths was being tracked real time for all folks who got vaccinated since the start of the year, it would be great. look at the end of the document Funding Supported by BioNTech and Pfizer Data sharing statement Upon request, and subject to review, Pfizer will provide the data that support the findings of this study. Subject to certain criteria, conditions, and exceptions, Pfizer may also provide access to 11 the related individual anonymized participant data. See https://www.pfizer.com/science/clinical-trials/trial-data-and-results for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 Having serious issues of acid reflux since I received first dose of vaccine two months back. Stomach is hurting badly. No relief. EnterTheVoid, Jimmy Cliff and coffee_rules 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 14 minutes ago, rkt.india said: Having serious issues of acid reflux since I received first dose of vaccine two months back. Stomach is hurting badly. No relief. Why did you take the vaccine when you are anti vaccine? That aside, get well soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbestfriend Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 I took the vaccine first dose due to pressure from family last month , I had severe cramps in my leg for 20 days..It was not pretty...But my wife didn't have such complications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, EnterTheVoid said: Why did you take the vaccine when you are anti vaccine? That aside, get well soon. When did I say I am anti-vaccine? I don't see things in Black and white. Edited August 18, 2021 by rkt.india Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 8 hours ago, rkt.india said: Having serious issues of acid reflux since I received first dose of vaccine two months back. Stomach is hurting badly. No relief. Did you change diet or work pattern or stressful work? Acid reflux can also be caused by sleeplessness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) 43 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Did you change diet or work pattern or stressful work? Acid reflux can also be caused by sleeplessness No. Changed nothing. After vaccine, I had fever, severe malaise for two days, intermittent dizziness that lasted almost a week and sudden excessive acidity. It's been almost two months, now also have mild heartburn due to acidity. Edited August 18, 2021 by rkt.india Mariyam and coffee_rules 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, rkt.india said: No. Changed nothing. After vaccine, I had fever, severe malaise for two days, intermittent dizziness that lasted almost a week and sudden excessive acidity. It's been almost two months, now also have mild heartburn due to acidity. sad, Hope you feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattaca Posted August 18, 2021 Share Posted August 18, 2021 (edited) This is really getting annoying another dose for fall in US. Makes you feel like a lab rat. Edited August 18, 2021 by gattaca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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