Time for govt to understand there’s more to life than image building: Anupam Kher on Covid efforts

[Trichromatic]

5 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

So. Why are western media outlets and our sepoys like Barkha. WaPo foot soldiers claiming that Indian official count of Covid cases has to be multiplied b 10x to 30x times? The truth lies beyond official numbers, may be not as high as they claim . 
 

 

 

But in your case you're not taking any of those into account.

 

1. Official numbers - don't want to take into account because Barkha and co are not talking about official numbers.

2. Unofficial numbers - don't twant to take same numbers into account even though those show that opposition ruled states are mostly doing better than BJP ruled states.

 

Doesn't matter that official/unofficial numbers show opposition ruled states are doing alright. Conclusion is already drawn, blame them.

[mishra]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

But in your case you're not taking any of those into account.

 

1. Official numbers - don't want to take into account because Barkha and co are not talking about official numbers.

2. Unofficial numbers - don't twant to take same numbers into account even though those show that opposition ruled states are mostly doing better than BJP ruled states.

 

Doesn't matter that official/unofficial numbers show opposition ruled states are doing alright. Conclusion is already drawn, blame them.

Not everyone in opposition is necessarily doing it wrong . For example Assam, Keral  have done spectacular job but Asaam, Udisha is best state in my view. Assam is poorest, Udisha is a a relatively poorer state with poorer infra and this factor has to be taken into Account. There are some state CMs who have matched BJP ruled states but if Gujrat does well in vaccination its unfair to say, its doing so well because PM is Gujrati, when fact is its doing well because vaccine hesitancy was low. UP has no infra but it managed to fight so well because Administration did worked hard. Compare UP to Similar states like Bihar, Rajsthan and MP and you will find that Yogi has simply won it because of his admin ability.

 

West Bengal, Gujrat, Maharashtra, Tamilnadu, Andhra, Karnataka, Kerala should be put in same bracket while Delhi Haryana and Punjab needs to be put in another bracket simply because of infra level of these states. You can give some rope based on education, middleclass count, industry and jobs but make your own call.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by mishra

[coffee_rules]

5 hours ago, mishra said:

Not everyone in opposition is necessarily doing it wrong . For example Assam, Keral  have done spectacular job but Asaam, Udisha is best state in my view. Assam is poorest, Udisha is a a relatively poorer state with poorer infra and this factor has to be taken into Account. There are some state CMs who have matched BJP ruled states but if Gujrat does well in vaccination its unfair to say, its doing so well because PM is Gujrati, when fact is its doing well because vaccine hesitancy was low. UP has no infra but it managed to fight so well because Administration did worked hard. Compare UP to Similar states like Bihar, Rajsthan and MP and you will find that Yogi has simply won it because of his admin ability.

 

West Bengal, Gujrat, Maharashtra, Tamilnadu, Andhra, Karnataka, Kerala should be put in same bracket while Delhi Haryana and Punjab needs to be put in another bracket simply because of infra level of these states. You can give some rope based on education, middleclass count, industry and jobs but make your own call.

 

Anyhow, my theory was opposition being skepticism of center’s vaccine plans can be made possible as the vaccine dispensing is states’ responsibility. 37% wastage (1 in 3) wastage is criminal, even with bad infra and vaccine hesitancy 

[mishra]

16 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Anyhow, my theory was opposition being skepticism of center’s vaccine plans can be made possible as the vaccine dispensing is states’ responsibility. 37% wastage (1 in 3) wastage is criminal, even with bad infra and vaccine hesitancy 

Opposition is opposition for a reason. They ised to be in power and people know exactly their capacity to deliver. BJP can’t do a jackshit in Udisha simply because Patanaikji is right person. He doesn’t need to rely on caste, and communal politics like other opposition ruled states.

 

The day, Other state current CMS of opposition parties start delivering, they won’t be attacked. Comparing a UP states data with Delhi states data does not change ground reality that UP has odds against it.

 

Same is true when someone compares Maharashtra with MP. Like for like would be comparing Maharashtra with Gujrat. Or Andhra with Karnatak. 

[Vilander]

6 hours ago, mishra said:

There are some state CMs who have matched BJP ruled states but if Gujrat does well in vaccination its unfair to say, its doing so well because PM is Gujrati,

why in initial months 17 million doses sent to Guj for population of 60 mil when TN for example had 6 mil for 83 mil pop. TN had 8 pc wastage and guj had 4 pc wastage at that stage. Up and Bihar had similar low numbers of vaccine shots and pipeline. There appeared a degree of favouritism for gujrat which is very apparent. 
I will give an other case, Asiatic lions are bundled in a small geographical area and this could lead to endemic threat of extinction, scientists fought for gir lions to be translocated to other areas in country, after stiff opposition from guj when midi was PM, SC gave ruling to proceed with scientific approach to save the gir lions and trans locate some of them to second base to improve genetic pool.

After midi became PM he shut this down completely, lol reason given is Gujarati pride hehe. 
 

pathetic. No hiding from facts. All Indians should be ashamed of the democratic policies of a PM who feels it’s ok to play favourites with his home state.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Vilander

[mishra]

10 minutes ago, Vilander said:

why in initial months 17 million doses sent to Guj for population of 60 mil when TN for example had 6 mil for 83 mil pop. TN had 8 pc wastage and guj had 4 pc wastage at that stage. Up and Bihar had similar low numbers of vaccine shots and pipeline. There appeared a degree of favouritism for gujrat which is very apparent. 
I will give an other case, Asiatic lions are bundled in a small geographical area and this could lead to endemic threat of extinction, scientists fought for gir lions to be translocated to other areas in country, after stiff opposition from guj when midi was PM, SC gave ruling to proceed with scientific approach to save the gir lions and trans locate some of them to second base to improve genetic pool.

After midi became PM he shut this down completely, lol reason given is Gujarati pride hehe. 
 

pathetic. No hiding from facts. All Indians should be ashamed of the democratic policies of a PM who feels it’s ok to play favourites with his home state.

I think wastage is not the criteria in vaccine distribution. Criteria was usage and available inventory so that people vaccinating do not have to store.

 

I will put it mildly, Opposition ruled states were not particularly sure if vaccine is right approach.

 

let take two cases, UP and gujrat: UP has huge population, high unemployment, poor infra , It was presumed that taking vaccine (emergency use) was a big risk despite Yogi gvmnts push ie Very high hesitancy. Also people were not as informed as Punjab, Delhi or Gujrat where there are a lot of people living abroad.

 

In case of Gujrat, It worked as Gujjus have a lot of people living abroad and State has no support for opposition.

In case of UP , state has some opposition but very few people living abroad,

 

For example, Only on my insistence, My family living in UP got vaccinated and then that led to my relatives opting for vaccine. Luckily they all got the shots before Covid hit UP. At the time slots and doses were having no takers in UP. When I mentioned it to my UP based frnds, looking for vaccine during peak pandemic, they were surprised. I told them, it was readily available wihin UP 2 weeks prior

 

 

IMO, Vaccine hesitancy has link to how fewer people living abroad and how much opposition has support within a state. I am not going to change this theory unless prooven concretely otherwise

 

[mishra]

Here, If you have patience and can understand psyche and link the dates, This story is about how much hesitancy existed and various reasons. And all are genuine honest concerns. Gujrat didn’t had to deal with this as someone was allready vaccinated @Vilander

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/how-a-village-in-india-reached-100-vaccination-in-the-face-of-misinformation-and-hesitancy?cmpid=int_org=ngp::int_mc=website::int_src=ngp::int_cmp=amp::int_add=amp_readtherest

[Trichromatic]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Anyhow, my theory was opposition being skepticism of center’s vaccine plans can be made possible as the vaccine dispensing is states’ responsibility. 37% wastage (1 in 3) wastage is criminal, even with bad infra and vaccine hesitancy 

 

 

Jharkhand govt has already said that wastage is not 37%.

 

Quote

"If wastage figures are rectified on the basis of data attached with the letter sent by us to the centre, the wastage figure will come below 4.63 per cent," 

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/ranchi-news/jharkhand-sends-letter-to-centre-seeking-rectification-of-vaccine-wastage-data-101622269064724.html

 

Btw, those are 2-3 states. Most of the opposition states are doing better than BJP states.

 

[coffee_rules]

48 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

 

Jharkhand govt has already said that wastage is not 37%.

 

 

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/ranchi-news/jharkhand-sends-letter-to-centre-seeking-rectification-of-vaccine-wastage-data-101622269064724.html

Ok, any improvement in this area is good for people, But the same acceptance is not there when GoI says the official count of Covid cases. People jump to 3x-6x-10x to some like NYT jacks it up 14x in a worst-case scenario model. 

 

48 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Btw, those are 2-3 states. Most of the opposition states are doing better than BJP states.

 

 

Good for those states, happy to be wrong. I know for sure Kar was one of the worst states to handle the second wave.

[Vilander]

10 hours ago, mishra said:

I think wastage is not the criteria in vaccine distribution. Criteria was usage and available inventory so that people vaccinating do not have to store.

 

I will put it mildly, Opposition ruled states were not particularly sure if vaccine is right approach.

 

let take two cases, UP and gujrat: UP has huge population, high unemployment, poor infra , It was presumed that taking vaccine (emergency use) was a big risk despite Yogi gvmnts push ie Very high hesitancy. Also people were not as informed as Punjab, Delhi or Gujrat where there are a lot of people living abroad.

 

In case of Gujrat, It worked as Gujjus have a lot of people living abroad and State has no support for opposition.

In case of UP , state has some opposition but very few people living abroad,

 

For example, Only on my insistence, My family living in UP got vaccinated and then that led to my relatives opting for vaccine. Luckily they all got the shots before Covid hit UP. At the time slots and doses were having no takers in UP. When I mentioned it to my UP based frnds, looking for vaccine during peak pandemic, they were surprised. I told them, it was readily available wihin UP 2 weeks prior

 

 

IMO, Vaccine hesitancy has link to how fewer people living abroad and how much opposition has support within a state. I am not going to change this theory unless prooven concretely otherwise

 

 

 

Sorry man. Modi sent more vaccine to Guj less to TN UP Bihar that's a fact. No going around that fact. Not sure what he thought doing it, no one would notice or he probably does not care. Either ways it's a poor job. 

[Vilander]

10 hours ago, mishra said:

worked as Gujjus have a lot of people living abroad and State has no support for opposition.

Not applicable to TN, but anyway there is no more vaccine shortage there that is allt hat is needed. But surely when you compare a state like maharastra Karnataka and gujrat, even there gujrat got preferential treatment that's sad. 

[Trichromatic]

9 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Ok, any improvement in this area is good for people, But the same acceptance is not there when GoI says the official count of Covid cases. People jump to 3x-6x-10x to some like NYT jacks it up 14x in a worst-case scenario model. 

 

 

Good for those states, happy to be wrong. I know for sure Kar was one of the worst states to handle the second wave.

 

 

I tried checking PIB and didn't find data related to vaccine wastage. All I see media reports. I don't know what GOI says for vaccine wastage. 

 

If I see an official report by GOI on wastage, I would take that number instead of something quoted in media. If state govt contests that figure and gets that rectified then that's also more believable than some media report. 

Vaccine wastage is limited by number of vaccine supplied. Those are % figures. It can be max 100% and minimum -ve in case of utilisation like how Kerala and WB did.

 

Deaths are not % figures and what govt data shows is not all deaths by covid, but all deaths where it was confirmed that person was down with covid. If person was not tested before that then it is not counted in official figures. That itself will result in higher actual numbers than official count.

 

But then no one knows what might be actual count and there is no way to know. 3x-6x-10x - are mostly random extraplolation.

 

I have no clue how Karnataka messed up. Of all BJP ruled states didn't expect Karnataka to lag behind.

 

 

[Khota]

9 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Ok, any improvement in this area is good for people, But the same acceptance is not there when GoI says the official count of Covid cases. People jump to 3x-6x-10x to some like NYT jacks it up 14x in a worst-case scenario model. 

 

 

Good for those states, happy to be wrong. I know for sure Kar was one of the worst states to handle the second wave.

Not scientfic but very conservative estimate is x6. Everyone in my family had it so as far as I am concerned it is being drastically underreported.

[rkt.india]

14 hours ago, Vilander said:

why in initial months 17 million doses sent to Guj for population of 60 mil when TN for example had 6 mil for 83 mil pop. TN had 8 pc wastage and guj had 4 pc wastage at that stage. Up and Bihar had similar low numbers of vaccine shots and pipeline. There appeared a degree of favouritism for gujrat which is very apparent. 
I will give an other case, Asiatic lions are bundled in a small geographical area and this could lead to endemic threat of extinction, scientists fought for gir lions to be translocated to other areas in country, after stiff opposition from guj when midi was PM, SC gave ruling to proceed with scientific approach to save the gir lions and trans locate some of them to second base to improve genetic pool.

After midi became PM he shut this down completely, lol reason given is Gujarati pride hehe. 
 

pathetic. No hiding from facts. All Indians should be ashamed of the democratic policies of a PM who feels it’s ok to play favourites with his home state.

Why would they need more vaccines when they were vaccinating less people?

[Vilander]

16 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Why would they need more vaccines when they were vaccinating less people?

TN vaccinating 83 mil people Guj 60 mil, your Modi govt sent 17 mil to guj and 6 mil to TN because of dumb electorate that elects him. Lol