Muslim Socials (Movies)

[coffee_rules]

Javed Akhtar says it very eloquently. People would scream Islamophobia, if somebody else says it. @Mariyam is it true what he says about Lakhnavis?

I wanted to include it in the Pakeezah thread, but didn't want to antogonize @zen

 

 

 

 

I think 3 Idiots showed a normal Muslim family of India.

Maybe Hritik Roshan's Fiza

 

Edited July 27, 2021 by coffee_rules

[Alam_dar]

I don't know exactly if children use to say "Aba Hazoor" or not, but it seems to me that it was indeed a high culture in Luckhnow. 

 

But if the Urdu Novels, which were written at that time, indeed present the true situation on the ground, then that culture was very much close to what we seen in the movies today. 

 

Similarly, if the Urdu Poetry, which was written in that time, reflects the exact situation of the society, then again it means that that culture was close to the movies of today. 

 

Nevertheless, novels and poetry could have a lot of exaggeration too and they may be far away from the reality too. 

 

All in all, I have met the older generation people, who migrated to Pakistan from Luckhnow. They seem to have high culture (even those who were very poor too). 

 

==========

 

There was a pair in Luckhnow in older times. The wife got pregnant, but delivery was not taking place. Hakeems knew nothing what was wrong and  long period of 20 years passed in the same situation. Then came the modern era and wife went to the hospital.

 

Doctors were also surprised to see that lady who was pregnant for the last 20 years. They decided to operate her. They operated and saw that there were two babies there, with long beards .... One was saying: Aap Pehley Janab (i.e. You first please), while other was saying: Mein yeh Gustakhi kaisay kar sakta hooN, Aap Pehly (i.e. How could I be so disrespectful, You first please) ... 

 

 

[zen]

Films are not documentaries. Filmmakers create environments that work best for films, at times sharing their vision with audiences. Why should we have issues with Muslim social films, highlighting some of the best aspects/visions of that culture? 

 

I do not connect much with many Indian gangster films which showcase a slummy environment with people using foul language and trying to do funny things on screen to look cool. 

 

Satyajit Ray has depicted India like below in many of his films:

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the other hand, MI4 created an environment of an opulent India below:

 

 

 

India (and therefore its various communities) has multiple dimensions to it. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by zen

[Mariyam]

@coffee_rules

 

The wider point Javed Akhtar was trying to make was about the portrayal of Muslims in Bollywood and not about Lucknow!

He is obviously right there. There is widespread generalisation and caricature like portrayal. Though its a tad strange that he speak of it so derisively, given that a good chunk of his early career was based on composing sher o shayari/dialogues on Muslim socials.

 

What he says about Lakhnavi tehzeeb is certainly not correct. It does exist in some pockets even today. @The Outsider is from the city and can tell you better.

I've been to the city only to attend weddings of relatives/ business associates. My observation is that those who are descendants of the nawabs/ their courtiers ( this includes Hindus too) tend to glorify that style of flowery Urdu and that lifestyle from a bygone era. I've attended a weddings that have had Mushaira sessions as a part of the festivities. That is a distinctly Lakhnavi thing. Its also pertinent to note that the vast majority of the Lakhanvi nawabdom and their courtiers were Shias. Hence the added 'purity' ( read as Persianization) to their Urdu.

Its the descendants of these privileged courtiers/landed gentry : Amrohi, Mehboob Khan, K Asif who started the Muslim socials. The very ideals that they glorified and were proud of: The genteel cultured Muslim. Javed Akhtar is from an educated working class and hence left leaning house hold. The ideals that his family ( the relative have nots) espoused were those of socialism and generally looked down upon privilege. 

 

PS: The same people who would casually laugh at 'puncture wala' comments would be the first to get offended if someone said 'chai wala' in the same tone. Dignity of labour exists only for our own.  

 

 

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@coffee_rules

 

The wider point Javed Akhtar was trying to make was about the portrayal of Muslims in Bollywood and not about Lucknow!

He is obviously right there. There is widespread generalisation and caricature like portrayal. Though its a tad strange that he speak of it so derisively, given that a good chunk of his early career was based on composing sher o shayari/dialogues on Muslim socials.

 

What he says about Lakhnavi tehzeeb is certainly not correct. It does exist in some pockets even today. @The Outsider is from the city and can tell you better.

I've been to the city only to attend weddings of relatives/ business associates. My observation is that those who are descendants of the nawabs/ their courtiers ( this includes Hindus too) tend to glorify that style of flowery Urdu and that lifestyle from a bygone era. I've attended a weddings that have had Mushaira sessions as a part of the festivities. That is a distinctly Lakhnavi thing. Its also pertinent to note that the vast majority of the Lakhanvi nawabdom and their courtiers were Shias. Hence the added 'purity' ( read as Persianization) to their Urdu.

Its the descendants of these privileged courtiers/landed gentry : Amrohi, Mehboob Khan, K Asif who started the Muslim socials. The very ideals that they glorified and were proud of: The genteel cultured Muslim. Javed Akhtar is from an educated working class and hence left leaning house hold. The ideals that his family ( the relative have nots) espoused were those of socialism and generally looked down upon privilege. 

 

PS: The same people who would casually laugh at 'puncture wala' comments would be the first to get offended if someone said 'chai wala' in the same tone. Dignity of labour exists only for our own.  

 

 

chaiwala jibe is all over the internet these days.

[maniac]

For a change I don’t see anything wrong with what he said 

[maniac]

This gems of Bollywood started off well, but they are going down the drain with what they want to pick. They said Mimi was a disgrace to Nikita Tomar murder etc but I just saw it 2 days back and was pleasantly surprised how good the movie was. No agenda whatsoever. Fantastic movieS

[coffee_rules]

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

@coffee_rules

 

The wider point Javed Akhtar was trying to make was about the portrayal of Muslims in Bollywood and not about Lucknow!

He is obviously right there. There is widespread generalisation and caricature like portrayal. Though its a tad strange that he speak of it so derisively, given that a good chunk of his early career was based on composing sher o shayari/dialogues on Muslim socials.

 

What he says about Lakhnavi tehzeeb is certainly not correct. It does exist in some pockets even today. @The Outsider is from the city and can tell you better.

I've been to the city only to attend weddings of relatives/ business associates. My observation is that those who are descendants of the nawabs/ their courtiers ( this includes Hindus too) tend to glorify that style of flowery Urdu and that lifestyle from a bygone era. I've attended a weddings that have had Mushaira sessions as a part of the festivities. That is a distinctly Lakhnavi thing. Its also pertinent to note that the vast majority of the Lakhanvi nawabdom and their courtiers were Shias. Hence the added 'purity' ( read as Persianization) to their Urdu.

Its the descendants of these privileged courtiers/landed gentry : Amrohi, Mehboob Khan, K Asif who started the Muslim socials. The very ideals that they glorified and were proud of: The genteel cultured Muslim. Javed Akhtar is from an educated working class and hence left leaning house hold. The ideals that his family ( the relative have nots) espoused were those of socialism and generally looked down upon privilege. 

 

PS: The same people who would casually laugh at 'puncture wala' comments would be the first to get offended if someone said 'chai wala' in the same tone. Dignity of labour exists only for our own.  

 

 

I couldn’t get another source for that video, was not my intention to discuss this with the context of the handle. Thanks for explaining the nuances of Javed Saab’s background. I had thought he was one of the Ashrafs. Knew about his socialism/communist background. The discussion was after all about depictions of Muslims stereotyped in Hindi movies. 
 

I was recently watching the movie - Kissi se na kehna - - Farookh Sheikh, Dipti Naval, Utpal Dutt. Has a char played by Saaed Jaafri, looks and talks like a nawab from Lukhnow and has a Bhojpuri speaking Hindu wife. Assumed he was Muslim, but it was not mentioned in the movie. But it could be a Hindu grown in that G-J tehzeeb.

 

If JA is  complaining about Muslim stereotypes, Hindus are done too largely in the negative way. Dhongi babas, main chars making fun of Hindu gods and goddesses in the name of comedy, glorification of other religions and denigrating Hinduism. 
 

Don’t know why you bring about laughing about puncturewalas. JA himself did it and if some other Hindu had done it, he would be called communal sanghi. Chaiwala jibe is mocked all over internet with impunity in comparison 

 

@maniac That handle has some misses, but mostly picks out the hypocrisy in movies that are largely Hinduphobic. Love jihad is in the news on a daily basis, but movies and tv ads (Tanishq) tries to show interfaith as largely good and normalize it just to rile up people. And people do rule up giving it good publicity. I have avoided many movies and series based on their content. Much like Pratik Borade, who also has some misses (like Udaan). 
 

Yes, Mimi was a nice movie 

Edited July 28, 2021 by coffee_rules

[zen]

IMO, too much is being read into what Javad said when he could merely be having some fun. It is difficult to believe that anyone would object to muslims being portrayed as nawabs, when many were for e.g. Nawab of Pataudi, while suggesting that "shukar hai kaam se kaam aaj kuch musalmano ko terrorist dekha te hai". 

 

If someone says -> People question Gandhiji status as great. However, he is great. 

Then there would be people who will try to misrepresent it brazenly by only quoting "People question Gandhiji status as a great", then suggesting that Gandhiji is great. You will have some sheepish comment too like "Yes, Gandhiji is great, why that someone questions that" (when nothing like that was originally said). 

 

Which is why I usually stay away from Indian tweets and such stuff. These are a type of pollution too -> land pollution, water pollution, air pollution, social media pollution, ...  

Edited July 28, 2021 by zen