Does winning ICC tournaments reflect how good a team is?

[Number]

If a team is dominating in ratings and bilaterals but can't win ICC trophy, it points to a problem of underperforming when stakes are high. Such team can not be called great.

[vvvslaxman]

Excellent case for RCB. Team doesn't have to win IPL. 

[vvvslaxman]

ICC ranking clearly shows we are not that good a limited over side. In Tests we are good.  Other teams take a very long time to rebuild. So we will be enjoying this for a while.

[Jay]

funny how you claim Sena declined to let us be on top rofl.

 

like india and co were on top when australia and south africa dominated?? look at our pathetic bowling in those times. get real. be objective. 

 

you are a product of your time. this is an ATG test side. possibly an ATG odi side with the right captain who picks the right players. 

 

Stop comparing past eras. thats why pakistan is where they are right now. They always romanticize about their past glory which btw is pretty mediocre in tests. Never reached number 1 till misbah was in charge. 

 

in 90s, west indies and aussies were top sides. pakistan perhaps 3. rest were all weak. 

 

in 2000, we had aussies and saffers again. india had poor bowlers. pakistan had one good bowler and rest fodders. west indies declined massively post 2002 ish. 

lanka was strong at home but thats about it. they could never compete away. Infact a weakened sri lanka beat south africa away 2 - 0 not too long ago albeit without abd. 

 

the indian side that england had to play out of their skins to beat in 2012 was a joke. its a farce. old past it, has been decrepit side. Even the aussie side they beat were poor. Just prior to beating aussies and indians, they got smashed by s.africa in their own home and lost 2 - 0 to pakistan. i believe they lost to lanka as well. 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Jay

[Jay]

26 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

ICC ranking clearly shows we are not that good a limited over side. In Tests we are good.  Other teams take a very long time to rebuild. So we will be enjoying this for a while.

we are a good odi side. we are just guided by a useless dimwit captain. if we get rid of him, we will be a top side again in odi. 

we need rohit to captain and pick the right players. thats all. 

[Adamant]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

 

Waughs Aus Lloyd's WI Ponting Aus smiths SA Kohlis Ind Cooks Eng Gangulys Ind Imrans Pak in that order so far I guess? 

Lloyd's Wi above Waugh's Aus. 

Lloyd whitewashed Ind in Ind without a spinner. 

[rollingstoned]

Well it is the cherry on top of the cake as in you are right in that solitary success in such a tournament won't make a team great or even particularly memorable like some random CT win or t20 wc win. But for teams who are otherwise consistent it is good to have something to show for it.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

Lloyd's Wi above Waugh's Aus. 

Lloyd whitewashed Ind in Ind without a spinner. 

look at that joke indian team they played rofl. 

[Jay]

only tests. only tests matter

 

1) lloyd west indies greatest

2) ponting's aussies from 2002-2007

3) waugh's aussies are overrated. got smacked by weak india in 1998 -1999

4) virat chewtiya's india. would be higher with any other good captain like rahane or rohit. 1 series win in s.africa away from overtaking waugh's aussies. if they win in n.z then they take over punter's aussie team.

5) g.smith saffers. interchangeable with virat's india. oen of the best teams of all time. Underrated side. unfortunately they had many draws and several losses at home to rank on par with the above 4 teams. the loss at home to aussies, draw to old decrepit indian side in 2011, loss to england all hurt their legacy. 

6) dhoni's 2006-2010 india. strong team. one of the best batting sides of all time. competed well everywhere. dint dominate at home like virat's india

7) imran ghandu's pakistan is there for moral victory. they will claim to be number 3 spot as moral victory of being the second best team in 80s add credibility to their weak legacy. they have barely any notable away wins and struggled to beat one of the worst indian test sides of all time in the late 80s. no series win in australia, no series win in w.indies albeit a draw vs a weaker version of goat side. The side they drew with dint have the deadly 4 pronged attack.

8) kane's n.z. best n.z team of all time. 

9) cronje's saffers. couldnt even draw a game in australia. poor effort. 

10) strauss's england

11) paine's aussies

12) vaughn's england

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Jay

[Adamant]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

look at that joke indian team they played rofl. 

Sorry but the trio of 

Gavaskar, Amarnath, Vengsarkar  

Combined with

Sandeep Patil, Shastri, Dev can't be called a joke batting lineup. 

 

The bowling lineup was very weak, I"ll give you that. 

 

 

 

[Adamant]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

only tests.

 

1) lloyd west indies greatest

2) ponting's aussies from 2002-2007

3) waugh's aussies are overrated. got smacked by weak india in 1998 -1999

4) virat chewtiya's india. would be higher with any other good captain like rahane or rohit. 1 series win in s.africa away from overtaking waugh's aussies. if they win in n.z then they take over punter's aussie team.

5) g.smith saffers. interchangeable with virat's india. oen of the best teams of all time. Underrated side. unfortunately they had many draws and several losses at home to rank on par with the above 4 teams. the loss at home to aussies, draw to old decrepit indian side in 2011, loss to england all hurt their legacy. 

 

 

Graeme Smiths Saffers didn't lose a single away series in I think six or eight years. 

Won't rate Virats' team ahead of them for sure. 

[Jay]

kane's n..z would spank imran's pak imo actually. swap them. paine's aussie would and already have spanked kane's n.z. so paine's aussies are actually number 7.

[Jay]

Just now, Adamant said:

Graeme Smiths Saffers didn't lose a single away series in I think six or eight years. 

Won't rate Virats' team ahead of them for sure. 

they lost  at home and drew multiple times. virat's india is better. a win in s.africa will further cement their legacy.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

funny how you claim Sena declined to let us be on top rofl.

 

like india and co were on top when australia and south africa dominated?? look at our pathetic bowling in those times. get real. be objective. 

 

you are a product of your time. this is an ATG test side. possibly an ATG odi side with the right captain who picks the right players. 

 

Stop comparing past eras. thats why pakistan is where they are right now. They always romanticize about their past glory which btw is pretty mediocre in tests. Never reached number 1 till misbah was in charge. 

 

in 90s, west indies and aussies were top sides. pakistan perhaps 3. rest were all weak. 

 

in 2000, we had aussies and saffers again. india had poor bowlers. pakistan had one good bowler and rest fodders. west indies declined massively post 2002 ish. 

lanka was strong at home but thats about it. they could never compete away. Infact a weakened sri lanka beat south africa away 2 - 0 not too long ago albeit without abd. 

 

the indian side that england had to play out of their skins to beat in 2012 was a joke. its a farce. old past it, has been decrepit side. Even the aussie side they beat were poor. Just prior to beating aussies and indians, they got smashed by s.africa in their own home and lost 2 - 0 to pakistan. i believe they lost to lanka as well. 

WI declined after 94-95. South africa was the best team in the 90s without winning WC. Then Australia. Australia became great in 2000s. 90s Australia wasn't great nor 80s.

[Jay]

3 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Sorry but the trio of 

Gavaskar, Amarnath, Vengsarkar  

Combined with

Sandeep Patil, Shastri, Dev can't be called a joke batting lineup. 

 

The bowling lineup was very weak, I"ll give you that. 

 

 

 

thats a poor side. bowling wins games. bowling was piss poor. 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

we are a good odi side. we are just guided by a useless dimwit captain. if we get rid of him, we will be a top side again in odi. 

we need rohit to captain and pick the right players. thats all. 

We are a middling ODI side.

[Adamant]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

they lost  at home and drew multiple times. virat's india is better. a win in s.africa will further cement their legacy.

Multiple times? 

 

 

Yeah they always dropped a series to Aus, dunno why.

but still I would take their record over ours. 

[Jay]

2 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

WI declined after 94-95. South africa was the best team in the 90s without winning WC. Then Australia. Australia became great in 2000s. 90s Australia wasn't great nor 80s.

not really. south africa were not so good vs england in 90s who were very weak. poor vs pak too.

[Adamant]

6 minutes ago, Jay said:

kane's n..z would spank imran's pak imo actually. swap them. paine's aussie would and already have spanked kane's n.z. so paine's aussies are actually number 7.

Aussies 70s were way better, Paine's Aussies haven't done anything to even get a mention. 

Even Sa 90s were better. 

[Jay]

5 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

We are a middling ODI side.

no we arent. change the captain and pick the right players. you will surprise yourself.