Umran Malik - 150 kph Indian pace sensation

[New guy]

27 minutes ago, Jay said:

He was hit around in Asia sure. That's like a deathbed for fast bowling tbf. Besides compared to Waqar, shaoib was hit around way less. He even got sacchu out several times on dead flat wickets.

 

I remember even in 2006 ish he troubled us a bit. 

Yeah but you are comapring a few matches at someones peak with waqar when he was done and dusted . 

 

 

[Jay]

9 minutes ago, New guy said:

Yeah but you are comapring a few matches at someones peak with waqar when he was done and dusted . 

 

 

Waqar was trash vs India and Australia in the 90s though. 

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, Jay said:

Waqar was trash vs India and Australia in the 90s though. 

Waqar didn't play India at his peak.

[Jay]

18 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Waqar didn't play India at his peak.

is that right? well his average dipped once he started facing good batsmen, once ball tampering issues were dealt with. 

so yea........not so great imo. 

[rkt.india]

13 hours ago, Jay said:

is that right? well his average dipped once he started facing good batsmen, once ball tampering issues were dealt with. 

so yea........not so great imo. 

No, because he lost pace after his back injury.  In late 90s, he became more of a swing bowler.

Edited October 19, 2021 by rkt.india

[First class]

On 10/17/2021 at 8:52 PM, Jay said:

Shoaib is a real phenom. I can't say the same about waqar. 

 

Wasim shoaib imran bumrah shami 

 

These are the best bowlers from Asia. 

 

Wasim being number 1. 

Bumrah can get there but in terms of ability he is already there. 

Imran shami and shoaib all are excellent in their own way. 

Shoaib issue was lack of games. 

 

So my order for now is;

Wasim

Bumrah

Imran

Shami

Shoaib 

 

Waqar I don't rate that guy. I have seen him get tonked too much for my liking vs any good team. Even in odi he got thrashed by some mediocre indian players like jadeja. 

I think Waqar was better them of all, better than IK ,  Wasim and Shaoib. Pace, swing, yorkers, he has everything a fast bowler could have imagined. 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, rkt.india said:

No, because he lost pace after his back injury.  In late 90s, he became more of a swing bowler.

No because he faced more quality batsmen. That's the reality. Also plenty of bowlers have had back injuries and came back. Also ball tampering was heavily scrutinised. 

[BlueBlood]

On 10/18/2021 at 1:17 AM, New guy said:

Lol shoaib would 100% have gone for way more runs if he had played more games. He had a habit of running away or dropping himself when challenged. After first handful of matches he was regularly tonked by indians

 

His low average is only because he played handful at his peak, hardly played couple matches in every series, avoided flat pitches and then retired early

 

He is one bowler Dhoni completely pwned in tests

 

Heck even the likes of bhajji and balaji used to hit him for huge sixes at death 

 

Shoaib Akhtar was way better than Waqar and even Wasim in his peak. The problem was the poor guy was used to toil in flat decks in 40+ degrees heat as he had zero proper support from the other end in later stages of his career.

 

This whole idea that "Sachin tonked him in tests" is all during a time when he was expected to bowl 20-30 overs in extreme heat and couldn't be used for ferocious 4-5 over spells.

 

The sad thing is he was never protected like Australia did with Mitchell Johnson, Starc or even India with Bumrah etc. where they used them in major tournaments and not toil them in flat decks (they used spinners in here).

 

Shoaib also was not a trained cricketer so his fast twitch muscles were never going to be as good as classic trained cricketers like Imran Khan etc. who played since childhood in perfect conditions. He was a raw talent that literally came out of street gully cricket environment.

 

I remember many stories where in his first couple of years, batsmen were genuinely scared of facing him as his yorkers were lethal at 155kph+ and they just couldn't pick his pace easily.

 

If current T20 cricket was around and more matches were played in pace friendly AUS/NZ wickets, Shoaib would have been an ATG bowler like Steyn. It's unfortunate he had to toil in tests in Pakistan, India etc. with absolute roads where his whole body broke down.

 

I will always have tremendous respect for Akhtar as he bowled until he collapsed on the field giving his all every single time. Unlike players like Munaf Patel and others who showed great pace initially and just became lazy later on to bend their back.

[rkt.india]

On 10/18/2021 at 10:47 AM, New guy said:

Lol shoaib would 100% have gone for way more runs if he had played more games. He had a habit of running away or dropping himself when challenged. After first handful of matches he was regularly tonked by indians

 

His low average is only because he played handful at his peak, hardly played couple matches in every series, avoided flat pitches and then retired early

 

He is one bowler Dhoni completely pwned in tests

 

Heck even the likes of bhajji and balaji used to hit him for huge sixes at death 

 

You have to understand why Shoaib played less. He was injury prone. He lacked fitness. Lack of fitness meant he would drop. Had he played more meant he would have maintained good fitness. Good fitness meant he would not have dropped and bowled even better.

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

What garbage, shoaib wasn't protected ? Not many were as protected as him ,the way he used to blatantly chuck most countries would have banned him ,even icc probably went easy on him due to his excitement factor, as they got much lesser bowlers banned.

 

He used to miss out when ever he pleased,the guy was mentally fragile and a hathi ke daant ,one who required 2 -3 top bowlers around him to back him up,guys like Imran,Kapil even srinath were much tougher than him.He was lucky to be born with a strong constitution and had a love for bowling fast,I am sure he trained hard as well at his peak but remained just a shock factor ,you could never depend on him.

Inzimam used to say he single-handedly lost so many matches for pakistan ,i didn't find anything wrong in what he said

[Suhaan]

7 hours ago, First class said:

I think Waqar was better them of all, better than IK ,  Wasim and Shaoib. Pace, swing, yorkers, he has everything a fast bowler could have imagined. 

I found Wasim and most underrated Gul better than most

[New guy]

3 hours ago, rkt.india said:

 

You have to understand why Shoaib played less. He was injury prone. He lacked fitness. Lack of fitness meant he would drop. Had he played more meant he would have maintained good fitness. Good fitness meant he would not have dropped and bowled even better.

Meh, never seen akhtar stand out as leader of attack

[New guy]

9 hours ago, First class said:

I think Waqar was better them of all, better than IK ,  Wasim and Shaoib. Pace, swing, yorkers, he has everything a fast bowler could have imagined. 

No way was waqar better than wasim. Wasim was a magician and could generate swing and seam on any surface. His yorkers were also often better than waqar and unlike waqar he could bowl swinging yorkers with new ball too and not just reverse swing. He could swing miles both ways

[BlueBlood]

8 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

What garbage, shoaib wasn't protected ? Not many were as protected as him ,the way he used to blatantly chuck most countries would have banned him ,even icc probably went easy on him due to his excitement factor, as they got much lesser bowlers banned.

 

He used to miss out when ever he pleased,the guy was mentally fragile and a hathi ke daant ,one who required 2 -3 top bowlers around him to back him up,guys like Imran,Kapil even srinath were much tougher than him.He was lucky to be born with a strong constitution and had a love for bowling fast,I am sure he trained hard as well at his peak but remained just a shock factor ,you could never depend on him.

 

LOL give me a break.

 

Watch Shoaib circa 1999-2001 and same Shoaib again 2003 onwards.

 

You will see a remarkable difference.

 

There was a reason he was popular, his early exploits were legendary. Even Sachin couldn't play him well and Sachin was in his peak those days.

 

Where Shoaib went downhill was so many bilateral tours, Asia cups in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, SL. There was no business picking him in tours where the pitches had nothing for pacers but yet he was picked hoping he could do something on those dead pitches. Same problem happened to Munaf Patel and would have happened to Umesh as well but luckily for Umesh he came in a more bowler friendly era.

 

This whole hero worship of Indian batsman is idiotic too at that era as pitches were made for batsmen. These days we rarely see triple hundreds or even double hundreds but those days it was very common for players to hit double hundreds at will.

 

It was easy for Sehwag to bash Shoaib those days as he knew they were playing in batsmen friendly pitches.

 

Make the pitches like the Newlands pitch in SA or the NZ green mambas and we will see how much Sehwag would have bashed him.

 

The sad thing was there were very few games in SENA nations those days as India v. Pak generated so much money for sponsors etc.

 

There's a reason Kohli, Rohit has struggled in the last 2 years - pitches have become more bowler friendly across the world. Spin in India, Swing in England, Pace in Aus etc.

 

You put Sehwag, Sachin in this era, they would have averaged the same as Kohli/Rohit. It's sad Akhtar wasn't able to maximize this like Brett Lee did in that era.

 

It reminds me of Shaun Tait - he had the same issue as he was run to the ground on batsman friendly pitches.

[New guy]

10 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

 

LOL give me a break.

 

Watch Shoaib circa 1999-2001 and same Shoaib again 2003 onwards.

 

You will see a remarkable difference.

 

There was a reason he was popular, his early exploits were legendary. Even Sachin couldn't play him well and Sachin was in his peak those days.

 

Where Shoaib went downhill was so many bilateral tours, Asia cups in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, SL. There was no business picking him in tours where the pitches had nothing for pacers but yet he was picked hoping he could do something on those dead pitches. Same problem happened to Munaf Patel and would have happened to Umesh as well but luckily for Umesh he came in a more bowler friendly era.

 

This whole hero worship of Indian batsman is idiotic too at that era as pitches were made for batsmen. These days we rarely see triple hundreds or even double hundreds but those days it was very common for players to hit double hundreds at will.

 

It was easy for Sehwag to bash Shoaib those days as he knew they were playing in batsmen friendly pitches.

 

Make the pitches like the Newlands pitch in SA or the NZ green mambas and we will see how much Sehwag would have bashed him.

 

The sad thing was there were very few games in SENA nations those days as India v. Pak generated so much money for sponsors etc.

 

There's a reason Kohli, Rohit has struggled in the last 2 years - pitches have become more bowler friendly across the world. Spin in India, Swing in England, Pace in Aus etc.

 

You put Sehwag, Sachin in this era, they would have averaged the same as Kohli/Rohit. It's sad Akhtar wasn't able to maximize this like Brett Lee did in that era.

 

It reminds me of Shaun Tait - he had the same issue as he was run to the ground on batsman friendly pitches.

Sachin only played one series of shoaib at his peak, shoaibs debut series And sachin always struggled against debutants, even henry olanga. He would then come back and then pwn them next series. So its not a surprise he struggled against a debutant. Even then akhter got out him out one single time in that series,  in the first match

 

The other time he played sohaib was twice in pakistan, once when he had the elbow injury. This is the same series where indian batsmen killed shoaib 

 

In total akhtar got him out only 3 times in around 35 innings. Once bowled first ball in his debut match, once caught behind on a wide leg side ball and once caught behind on a wide off side ball.  He averages 42 while playing against akhtar despite going through his worst elbow injury phase in between 

 

Shoiab only played 3 series vs india, his debut series and then series in pakistan. He averaged 50 in the later series

 

India didn't play pakistan regularly that time either. They did meet occasionally like in world cup 2003 and we all know what happened then

 

Indian batsmen had no issues against Akhtar and his pace. The real ownage we git were from swing bowlers like anderson and mcgrath. Pakistani bowlers were never the problem

[gattaca]

On 10/19/2021 at 2:46 PM, BlueBlood said:

 

LOL give me a break.

 

Watch Shoaib circa 1999-2001 and same Shoaib again 2003 onwards.

 

You will see a remarkable difference.

 

There was a reason he was popular, his early exploits were legendary. Even Sachin couldn't play him well and Sachin was in his peak those days.

 

Where Shoaib went downhill was so many bilateral tours, Asia cups in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, SL. There was no business picking him in tours where the pitches had nothing for pacers but yet he was picked hoping he could do something on those dead pitches. Same problem happened to Munaf Patel and would have happened to Umesh as well but luckily for Umesh he came in a more bowler friendly era.

 

This whole hero worship of Indian batsman is idiotic too at that era as pitches were made for batsmen. These days we rarely see triple hundreds or even double hundreds but those days it was very common for players to hit double hundreds at will.

 

It was easy for Sehwag to bash Shoaib those days as he knew they were playing in batsmen friendly pitches.

 

Make the pitches like the Newlands pitch in SA or the NZ green mambas and we will see how much Sehwag would have bashed him.

 

The sad thing was there were very few games in SENA nations those days as India v. Pak generated so much money for sponsors etc.

 

There's a reason Kohli, Rohit has struggled in the last 2 years - pitches have become more bowler friendly across the world. Spin in India, Swing in England, Pace in Aus etc.

 

You put Sehwag, Sachin in this era, they would have averaged the same as Kohli/Rohit. It's sad Akhtar wasn't able to maximize this like Brett Lee did in that era.

 

It reminds me of Shaun Tait - he had the same issue as he was run to the ground on batsman friendly pitches.

Akthar was good intial years only. McGrath , steyn and even pat cummins bowled well on subcontinent. Akthar was always going for scare factor with his run up more than anything. Akram told him few times to reduce it but he wouldn’t listen. I remember him after few years beefed up and couldn’t even run properly. He never had the discipline of a good fast bowler in his later years. Akram even mentioned in 2003 WC akthar didn’t wanted to bowl he wacked by sehwag and sachin in that match. 

[nsareen]

8 hours ago, gattaca said:

Akthar was good intial years only. McGrath , steyn and even pat cummins bowled well on subcontinent. Akthar was always going for scare factor with his run up more than anything. Akram told him few times to reduce it but he wouldn’t listen. I remember him after few years beefed up and couldn’t even run properly. He never had the discipline of a good fast bowler in his later years. Akram even mentioned in 2003 WC akthar didn’t wanted to bowl he wacked by sehwag and sachin in that match. 

 

 

why is this thread derailed so much from the topic... Here Kumara & Chameera are touching & crossing 150kmph, & Umran kid did the same, but rather than discussing pace & how to manage & keep it up across the career, people are derailing the thread to utter nonsense.. 

[gattaca]

Feel he is a bit short. Should have been little taller. It would have helped him with bounce.

[prudent_kreeda]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:58 AM, rkt.india said:

And that kind of swing with old ball can only be achieved if you are bowling fast, not at 135.

 

The swing was on view by 10-12th over itself . You won't get banana swing by bowling fast .

So much movement is possible only when ball is scrapped beyond normal wear & tear. 

Its not that Waqar was the fastest , so he can get that much swing , there were many and are many quicker than him but none gets such movement nowadays..

A genuine skill will not  vanish simply like that , someone else would have mastered from any of the country and  would be bowling with similar movement .

Thats not happening now .  In fact at very high pace ball will not swing like crazy.  

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, prudent_kreeda said:

 

The swing was on view by 10-12th over itself . You won't get banana swing by bowling fast .

So much movement is possible only when ball is scrapped beyond normal wear & tear. 

Its not that Waqar was the fastest , so he can get that much swing , there were many and are many quicker than him but none gets such movement nowadays..

A genuine skill will not  vanish simply like that , someone else would have mastered from any of the country and  would be bowling with similar movement .

Thats not happening now .  In fact at very high pace ball will not swing like crazy.  

Even if tampered that swing won't happen at 135.