Away stats of Fab Four vs top nations - SENAI

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

Tests :-

 

1. Smith

2. Root

3. Kohli

 

Some gaps

 

4. Warner

5. Williamson

6. Rohit/Pujara

warner is too high. he is a HTB apart from a couple of countries. even someone like karunaratne has done well in more conditions in the past few years.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Vijy

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, Jay said:

Pujara only did well in Australia.

He failed vs england. Failed vs Kiwis and average vs saffers. Shouldn't be in top 6 imo. 

 

I would say

In peaks;

 

Smith

Massive gap

Root Then

Kohli

You posted same list as me. Except that you didn't posted your 4,5 and 6.

[Majestic]

36 minutes ago, Vijy said:

warner is too high. he is a HTB apart from a couple of countries. even someone like karunaratne has done well in more conditions in the past few years.

Same is the case with Kane Williamson, Rohit and Pujara. Home track bullies with an exception of one or two countries.

 

Warner atleast has high strike rate impact knocks in favourable conditions, even in 2014 SA tour where he got three hundreds and won the series vs a very strong SA side.

[Vijy]

38 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Same is the case with Kane Williamson, Rohit and Pujara. Home track bullies with an exception of one or two countries.

 

Warner atleast has high strike rate impact knocks in favourable conditions, even in 2014 SA tour where he got three hundreds and won the series vs a very strong SA side.

that's why none of these folks would be in top 5 in my book.

[Majestic]

30 minutes ago, Vijy said:

that's why none of these folks would be in top 5 in my book.

What are the other options then? Top 3 is clear but 4 and 5 in tests??

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Majestic said:

You posted same list as me. Except that you didn't posted your 4,5 and 6.

Just wanted to highlight the massive gap part. Smith then massive mass8ve gap. Then root and then kohli. 

 

Kohli is better in Australia and s.africa in his peak compared to root. Root is better in n.z. and English conditions. But england is his home. Root also averages 50 in India. So slight edge to root. Root also is more consistent. However performances against Aussies count for more than weaker teams like poms and kiwis where conditions can massively favour teams that win tosses. In saying that kohli only played well on pattas vs Aussies back in 2012, 2014. Absolute roads. 

He only averaged 39-41 in the 2 series that he played after 2014. So not a true great even in Australia tbh. 

 

So overall root> cuckli.

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Just wanted to highlight the massive gap part. Smith then massive mass8ve gap. Then root and then kohli. 

 

Kohli is better in Australia and s.africa in his peak compared to root. Root is better in n.z. and English conditions. But england is his home. Root also averages 50 in India. So slight edge to root. Root also is more consistent. However performances against Aussies count for more than weaker teams like poms and kiwis where conditions can massively favour teams that win tosses. In saying that kohli only played well on pattas vs Aussies back in 2012, 2014. Absolute roads. 

He only averaged 39-41 in the 2 series that he played after 2014. So not a true great even in Australia tbh. 

 

So overall root> cuckli.

I too would give it to Root over Cuckil due to consistency. Root scores consistent fifties in weak patch too while Kohli has knack of producing complete horror show with bat in some series.

[Stan AF]

 

[sage]

1 hour ago, Stan AF said:

 

Can he overtake SRT in runs?

[Stan AF]

4 minutes ago, sage said:

Can he overtake SRT in runs?

If he can play for another 5-6 years, why not!.

 

Provided he keeps up his form ofcourse.

[SeasonedIPLer]

Root is a special player. Way better and more impactful than Sachin whose runs were on flat patty’s were teams scoring over 900

[SeasonedIPLer]

Root is a special player. Way better and more impactful than Sachin whose runs were on flat patty’s were teams scoring over 900

[vvvslaxman]

Root has completely owned us. 1/4th of his runs out of 10k are against us.

[vvvslaxman]

46 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

If he can play for another 5-6 years, why not!.

 

Provided he keeps up his form ofcourse.

 

Root's problem was conversion. He made a lot of 50s. Often struggled to convert them. Now he is converting better. First 73 tests 13 centuries. Next 45 test 13 centuries.

[Jay]

19 minutes ago, SeasonedIPLer said:

Root is a special player. Way better and more impactful than Sachin whose runs were on flat patty’s were teams scoring over 900

2000-2011 era was a bloody joke in tests. Ultra flat trashy wickets. No No ball umpiring. Even drs was sparingly used. Overrated inflated stats of most batsmen. All of them. Aussies Indians pommies all took advantage of thos3 shitty flat patta pitches. 

 

I have no doubt all those greats would have struggled a lot post 2014 when pitches became more even for both bat and ball. If tenda and kalis averaged 55. In this era I doubt either averages more than 50. 

 

Let's not forget tendus special vs Kiwis in his prime back in 1999. Those 99 and 120 all out type games. He was the master of scoring shitty runs in a losing cause. 

 

Can you imagine fab 4 facing goat Asian attack I.e. India of 2015-now on current pitches lol? With drs etc. 

 

Dravid had serious problems vs bounce and pace. Ganguly was dog **** vs pace and bounce. 

 

As if those 4 would do any better vs Kiwis in n.z on those ultras swing friendly pitches. We got shut down by Simon *ing doull of all.people back in late 90s.

[zen]

24 minutes ago, SeasonedIPLer said:

Root is a special player. Way better and more impactful than Sachin whose runs were on flat patty’s were teams scoring over 900

Sachin also benefitted by playing with Ind’s best batting line up, retiring at an age of 39. 
 

If playing today & in the 2004-07 phase, he could have been pressurized to retire rather than playing to get to 200 tests mark 

[SeasonedIPLer]

15 minutes ago, Jay said:

2000-2011 era was a bloody joke in tests. Ultra flat trashy wickets. No No ball umpiring. Even drs was sparingly used. Overrated inflated stats of most batsmen. All of them. Aussies Indians pommies all took advantage of thos3 shitty flat patta pitches. 

 

I have no doubt all those greats would have struggled a lot post 2014 when pitches became more even for both bat and ball. If tenda and kalis averaged 55. In this era I doubt either averages more than 50. 

 

Let's not forget tendus special vs Kiwis in his prime back in 1999. Those 99 and 120 all out type games. He was the master of scoring shitty runs in a losing cause. 

 

Can you imagine fab 4 facing goat Asian attack I.e. India of 2015-now on current pitches lol? With drs etc. 

 

Dravid had serious problems vs bounce and pace. Ganguly was dog **** vs pace and bounce. 

 

As if those 4 would do any better vs Kiwis in n.z on those ultras swing friendly pitches. We got shut down by Simon *ing doull of all.people back in late 90s.

Agreed man. I remember that test where Srilanka batter and batted for 950 odd runs and india scored 650 odd runs

 

absolute flat wickets made for run scoring.

 

the same batters in today era would have average less by about 5-10 runs easily

 

also your point on DRs etc is a good one. It was purely batsman dominated era ski take with grain of salt 

[Stan AF]

31 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Root's problem was conversion. He made a lot of 50s. Often struggled to convert them. Now he is converting better. First 73 tests 13 centuries. Next 45 test 13 centuries.

 

[vvvslaxman]

13 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

 

 

At one point he was in with a chance to break Moyo's record.

[vvvslaxman]

Of all the 4 one has a real funky technique and managed to average over 60 plus. Let us not forget he was a no.8 batsman when he made debut. Came in before Bollinger, Hilfenhaus, Johnson. He has found a way to score runs. Kane williamson technically appears to be good. But he has share of vulnerabilities in the channel. Very often tried to dab to third man and got castled. He barely managed to join the fab 4 club. Root is probably the most technically sound player of all 4. Has an excellent backfoot game through off side.  Kohli is a certified frontfoot plonker. As long as his reflexes permitted him he was getting away.  Actually i find Babar Azam has a better technique. Better balance. So far sucked in Tests. But done well in patches.If you have sound technique you can come back. Right now Kohli sucks in all kinds of pitches. Flat pitch, turning pitch, slow pitch, fast pitch against all kind of bowlers. Getting frequently bowled by regulation off spin is embarrassing.