Is the current Aussie pace attack in tests better than ours ? Do we have an X-factor in our test team compared to the Aussies ?

[rangeelaraja]

Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc are a formidable trio.

 

We have beaten them on their shores though. They "look" a more lethal attack than ours on paper.

 

Do we have an X-factor as a Test team above and beyond the fast bowlers that has allowed our continued success ? 

 

I think our lower order/tail has chipped in with runs in very tight /close situations - this has been the difference imo.

 

 

[ComfortFood]

Our first choice is better than oz

their backups are better than ours

Edited December 30, 2021 by ComfortFood

[rangeelaraja]

2 minutes ago, ComfortFood said:

Our first choice is better than oz

their backups are better than ours

 

 

Why do you think so ? 

 

Our 2nd back ups whopped them ( Navdeep Saini, Natarajan..etc..) at their ultimate fortress - Brisbane

[Texan]

I think overall the Aussie attack is better. I watched the spell in that final hour to England from Cummins and Starc followed by Boland. Cummins and Starc were at the batsmen every single ball causing all kinds of problems for the batsmen. England were lucky to have ONLY lost 4 wickets that evening. We would have beaten our 36 all out record facing that spell. Even the next day, they did not ease up one bit.

 

What is fascinating about Australia is that they can pick any rabbit out of the hat and it seems to do the trick for them. After Pattinson retired, they still have a wealth of options to pick from like Jhye Richardson and Scott Boland. It seems like no matter who they pick, they come in and deliver right away. Even Cameron Green is pretty quick and can be unplayable at times.

 

This is not to take anything away from our bowlers. Our bowlers are fantastic and the best bowling line-up that we have ever had in the history of our cricket. They save us on innumerable times from our incompetent batsmen failing all the time.

[Jay]

3 hours ago, rangeelaraja said:

Cummins, Hazlewood and Starc are a formidable trio.

 

We have beaten them on their shores though. They "look" a more lethal attack than ours on paper.

 

Do we have an X-factor as a Test team above and beyond the fast bowlers that has allowed our continued success ? 

 

I think our lower order/tail has chipped in with runs in very tight /close situations - this has been the difference imo.

 

 

Our first choice is better. Backups are close. Remember in australia pitches are more conducive to fast bowling. So don't just adopt a conclusion based on stats. If Indian bowlers had Aussie pitches as their home ground, their averages would be even better.

 

Bumrah on par or better than Cummins. Imo boom is better. 

Shami is better than hazelwood.

Siraj is better than starc. 

Green is better on potential than thakur but for now I am backing thakur. 

 

Backups?

Umesh > boland

Jhye> ishant

I would have tyagi and prasidh in there. Honestly our Backups are probably better too. Saini is good too. 

 

I'd you are a sepoy fan or parkie then yes you will put Aussies above Indians disingenuously. 

Even parkies on pee pee put India's above Aussies. Lyon however is better than ash in sena. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Jay

[neel roy]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

I think overall the Aussie attack is better. I watched the spell in that final hour to England from Cummins and Starc followed by Boland. Cummins and Starc were at the batsmen every single ball causing all kinds of problems for the batsmen. England were lucky to have ONLY lost 4 wickets that evening. We would have beaten our 36 all out record facing that spell. Even the next day, they did not ease up one bit.

 

What is fascinating about Australia is that they can pick any rabbit out of the hat and it seems to do the trick for them. After Pattinson retired, they still have a wealth of options to pick from like Jhye Richardson and Scott Boland. It seems like no matter who they pick, they come in and deliver right away. Even Cameron Green is pretty quick and can be unplayable at times.

 

This is not to take anything away from our bowlers. Our bowlers are fantastic and the best bowling line-up that we have ever had in the history of our cricket. They save us on innumerable times from our incompetent batsmen failing all the time.

Remember one thing. Everyone is lion at their home. Now India is becoming lion at others home as well. Thats the difference. Aus is expected to develop fast bowlers because of the heritage and nature of pitches. What matters is can these guys come to SC and beat us hands down. Can boland do that. Can jhye richardson. I doubt it heavily. One test one innings maybe like jamieson or anderson but for 4 tests at a stretch. No chance..But our bowlers Siraj Umesh Shami Bumrah can cause havoc in indian pitches ( just see umesh s or shamis record in last four years in india) and they can do same thing in English pitches, Australian pitches,windies pitches, saf pitches and even in kiwi Pitches ( it’s another matter our batters flopped or else we would hv won in nz)..thats why i ll keep our pace bowlers above aussies as they are all condition heroes and they could readily change their lengths based on countries/ pitches  from word go .. so for eg 1st test in Adelaide we were bossing them.. umesh was on fire, 1st test in england.. they were on ropes and we got them out for 180 odd, and now 1st test here.. shami bumrah siraj took 16 wickets..whereas when Aussies came to uae they lost to pakistan , they came to india they lost…they went to BD lost there as well..their pace bowlers did zilch.. and indian bowlers went there twice in last 3 years and won 4 tests… end of discussion..

Edited December 30, 2021 by neel roy

[Jay]

1 hour ago, Texan said:

I think overall the Aussie attack is better. I watched the spell in that final hour to England from Cummins and Starc followed by Boland. Cummins and Starc were at the batsmen every single ball causing all kinds of problems for the batsmen. England were lucky to have ONLY lost 4 wickets that evening. We would have beaten our 36 all out record facing that spell. Even the next day, they did not ease up one bit.

 

What is fascinating about Australia is that they can pick any rabbit out of the hat and it seems to do the trick for them. After Pattinson retired, they still have a wealth of options to pick from like Jhye Richardson and Scott Boland. It seems like no matter who they pick, they come in and deliver right away. Even Cameron Green is pretty quick and can be unplayable at times.

 

This is not to take anything away from our bowlers. Our bowlers are fantastic and the best bowling line-up that we have ever had in the history of our cricket. They save us on innumerable times from our incompetent batsmen failing all the time.

That's more testament to England's poor batting ability vs pace. We would do the same to England in australia. 

 

Imo Aussies have better batting than us thanks in large to trio. Our bowling is on par or better. 

 

Enough with the underrated of Indians goat attack which is possibly top 5 ATG level. 

 

Lyon though > ash in sena.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Jay

[putrevus]

Aussies attack is much better but overall with spinners for all conditions, this Indian bowling attack is way better. They might be best all time in history.There is no team in history which is going to beat this Indian team in Asian conditions in a series.

[Vijy]

in Asian conditions, the Oz attack is unproven. Lyon has a mixed record (1 very good tour, some avg tours), Hazel is down on effectiveness, Cummins is solid, Starc is down on effectiveness. On the other hand, consider an attack of peak Ashwin + Axar + Jaddu + Shami/Siraj + Umesh/Siraj. They would blow away the Oz bowling in terms of performance. I'd say that India has a marginally better all-conditions attack. One must remember that even in Eng, the Oz attack has had mixed success, which is why they only drew 2-2 there.

[Texan]

44 minutes ago, Vijy said:

in Asian conditions, the Oz attack is unproven. Lyon has a mixed record (1 very good tour, some avg tours), Hazel is down on effectiveness, Cummins is solid, Starc is down on effectiveness. On the other hand, consider an attack of peak Ashwin + Axar + Jaddu + Shami/Siraj + Umesh/Siraj. They would blow away the Oz bowling in terms of performance. I'd say that India has a marginally better all-conditions attack. One must remember that even in Eng, the Oz attack has had mixed success, which is why they only drew 2-2 there.

 

Question in thread title is purely about pace attack, not the complete bowling attack. What you are addressing is a complete attack. If it was about the overall bowling attack, then yes, our bowling appears to be better considering all types of conditions. 

[Texan]

2 hours ago, neel roy said:

Remember one thing. Everyone is lion at their home. Now India is becoming lion at others home as well. Thats the difference. Aus is expected to develop fast bowlers because of the heritage and nature of pitches. What matters is can these guys come to SC and beat us hands down. Can boland do that. Can jhye richardson. I doubt it heavily. One test one innings maybe like jamieson or anderson but for 4 tests at a stretch. No chance..But our bowlers Siraj Umesh Shami Bumrah can cause havoc in indian pitches ( just see umesh s or shamis record in last four years in india) and they can do same thing in English pitches, Australian pitches,windies pitches, saf pitches and even in kiwi Pitches ( it’s another matter our batters flopped or else we would hv won in nz)..thats why i ll keep our pace bowlers above aussies as they are all condition heroes and they could readily change their lengths based on countries/ pitches  from word go .. so for eg 1st test in Adelaide we were bossing them.. umesh was on fire, 1st test in england.. they were on ropes and we got them out for 180 odd, and now 1st test here.. shami bumrah siraj took 16 wickets..whereas when Aussies came to uae they lost to pakistan , they came to india they lost…they went to BD lost there as well..their pace bowlers did zilch.. and indian bowlers went there twice in last 3 years and won 4 tests… end of discussion..

 

Primary reasons why Australian teams struggle in Asian conditions is not due to the pace attack. It is the spinners that make all the difference. Australia only have one decent spinner who is actually pretty average in Asian conditions. Hence, the pace bowlers end up doing the bulk of the work. The difference with India is that because we have quality spinners that can explooit the conditions, pace bowlers just have to perform in small bursts. Our pace bowlers indeed are terrific in Indian conditions, but majority of the work is done by the spinners. 

 

P.S.

Since this question is an opinionated one, there will be counter opinions and everyone is entitled to theirs. I respect your opinion as much as I hope you respect mine. I tend to keep my opinions objective and not swayed by patriotic emotions. 

[Jay]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Aussies attack is much better but overall with spinners for all conditions, this Indian bowling attack is way better. They might be best all time in history.There is no team in history which is going to beat this Indian team in Asian conditions in a series.

Much better lmao. Based on what? Since when are they better than our pacers in India? Or anywhere except n.z for the matter. 

 

Even in Australia we have outbowled them before. We dint play our full strength attack in 2021. 

[Vijy]

17 minutes ago, Texan said:

 

Question in thread title is purely about pace attack, not the complete bowling attack. What you are addressing is a complete attack. If it was about the overall bowling attack, then yes, our bowling appears to be better considering all types of conditions. 

I may have misunderstood - thanks for clarifying. I'd still rate Ind's first-choice pace attack (with form and fitness permitting) as being nearly on par with Oz. I think our bowlers are more skilled at reverse swing, whereas theirs are better in some other respects.

[Jay]

19 minutes ago, Texan said:

 

Primary reasons why Australian teams struggle in Asian conditions is not due to the pace attack. It is the spinners that make all the difference. Australia only have one decent spinner who is actually pretty average in Asian conditions. Hence, the pace bowlers end up doing the bulk of the work. The difference with India is that because we have quality spinners that can explooit the conditions, pace bowlers just have to perform in small bursts. Our pace bowlers indeed are terrific in Indian conditions, but majority of the work is done by the spinners. 

 

P.S.

Since this question is an opinionated one, there will be counter opinions and everyone is entitled to theirs. I respect your opinion as much as I hope you respect mine. I tend to keep my opinions objective and not swayed by patriotic emotions. 

That theory doesn't even make sense. 

Lyon has better figures than ash in sena yet Indian pacers were able to match Aussies in 2018 and would have done so had a full strength attack been available in 2021. 

We have the weakest batting ever. 

Aussies have much better batting and technically Indian bowlers are bowling to superior batsmen. I could apply the same reasoning too. You see what I mesm. 

Bumrah is better than Cummins

Shami better than starc

Siraj on par with hazelwood. 

Backups ours is better. We outbowled them with a rookie attack in 2021 at the gabba. 

 

At the end of the day of you aren't a sepoy fan or a kohli bhakt or a synchophant masochist,you should realize Indian attack is better. 

 

Indian batting though is considerably worse compared to Australia. Smith Warner and labu Green defecates on our batting.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Jay

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I may have misunderstood - thanks for clarifying. I'd still rate Ind's first-choice pace attack (with form and fitness permitting) as being nearly on par with Oz. I think our bowlers are more skilled at reverse swing, whereas theirs are better in some other respects.

No. Sepoys and coward kohli bhakts prefer foreign cocks. They don't deserve this attack. We should go back to proven kumar vinay kumar and munaf Patel for them.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Jay

[Texan]

12 minutes ago, Jay said:

That theory doesn't even make sense. 

Lyon has better figures than ash in sena yet Indian pacers were able to match Aussies in 2018 and would have done so had a full strength attack been available in 2021. 

We have the weakest batting ever. 

Aussies have much better batting and technically Indian bowlers are bowling to superior batsmen. I could apply the same reasoning too. You see what I mesm. 

Bumrah is better than Cummins

Shami better than starc

Siraj on par with hazelwood. 

Backups ours is better. We outbowled them with a rookie attack in 2021 at the gabba. 

 

At the end of the day of you aren't a sepoy fan or a kohli bhakt or a synchophant masochist,you should realize Indian attack is better. 

 

Indian batting though is considerably worse compared to Australia. Smith Warner and labu Green defecates on our batting.

 

Difference between my posts and your posts is: objective opinion from a neutral perspective v/s opinion largely from a patriotic perspective. 

 

I don't understand with the obsession on this forum to change others opinions. You can keep yours and I will keep mine. 

[Jay]

Just now, Texan said:

 

Difference between my posts and your posts is: objective opinion from a neutral perspective v/s opinion largely from a patriotic perspective. 

 

I don't understand with the obsession on this forum to change others opinions. You can keep yours and I will keep mine. 

I am posting based on a neutral perspective. I clearly highlighted how weak our piss poor batting is. 

 

I am actually very neutral. Facts and figures back my claim anyway for the bowlers. Impact does. You sure can keep your opinion. Have a good day.

[Jay]

More neutralisation views.

1) Indian attack

2) actually saffers with Olivier ngidi rabada nortje is right up there. Last time saffers bowling attack outbowled prime Hazelwood and starc. Cummins dint play though. Don't be fooled by their weak batting. Lot of you need to remember saffers have a weaker batting unit which is a corollary that stems from lack of runs thereby forcing them to toil harder.

2) Aussies. Aussies are somewhat better on Asian turfs compared to saffers now. I guess it's equal between Aussies and saffers. 

 

[rangeelaraja]

Another possible advantage that India has is -- Australia is weaker without Cummins than India is without Bumrah. 

 

 

 

 

[First class]

Current Australian pace attack is better than current Indian pace attack. Indian pace attack is  2nd best closely followed by NZL. 

 

Here is my ranking of current pace attack, not considering unfit and currently not available players.

 

1-Australia 

2-India 

3-NZL

4-England

5-Pakistan

6-SA

7-WI

8-SL

9-Zimb

10-Ireland

11: BD