Does India really need Umesh Yadav and Ishant sharma in the squad

[putrevus]

Just now, Suhaan said:

Changes are moronic when its not obvious,

Yeah,a side boasting Ishant,Rahane,Pujara and struggling Kaptaan altogether doesn't need moronic changes,

That side is doing just fine and will do fine too without any moronic interventions.

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

That side is doing just fine and will do fine too without any moronic interventions.

This should not have been even a struggle here,genius playas are sleepwalking through SA at the moment

 

[QuarantineTormentino]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

India threw Ishant into test cricket well before he was ready, and it ruined him for 5 years.  It was fortune for India and Ishant that he was able to mature and come back as a test class bowler down the road.  

 

You talk about Umesh being "erratic" - both Prasidh and Avesh haven't really demonstrated that they are even at his efficacy level with the red ball, forget about being better.  I'm all for focusing on developing the next batch, and players like Avesh and Prasidh should be given maximum opportunities to develop and strengthen their case.  That's what Ranji and A tours are for.  Covid has put a stop to that and this is a bigger problem for Indian cricket than most folks realize.   

 

 

 

But Prasidh and Avesh have been given plenty of chances via Ranji games, a tours, etc. and have done well in all. They deserve their shot now. Shouldn’t make the same mistake that was made with Siraj

[sandeep]

26 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Yes , offcourse FC numbers

Unadkat will make the cut for you

 

When logic fails, create fake arguments to 'defeat'.  Where does Unadkat enter our discussion?  

26 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

How many matches did Bumrah play for Gujarat before playing red ball cricket for India

 

At the time Boom made his way to the Indian test XI, it was not the juggernaut it is today.  I'm talking about the paceb bowling unit.  And arguably Ishant and Umesh have demonstrated and made their cases for squad selection much stronger in recent years, than it was back then. The need to try out an unproven prospect is nowhere near as pressing.  Context matters.  Copy-paste 'logic' often fails to take that into account.

Edited January 12, 2022 by sandeep

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, QuarantineTormentino said:

But Prasidh and Avesh have been given plenty of chances via Ranji games, a tours, etc. and have done well in all. They deserve their shot now. Shouldn’t make the same mistake that was made with Siraj

 

Sorry, but neither have demonstrated effectiveness anywhere near Siraj's level.  They simply have not.  I was, and am a strong advocate for Siraj, and was advocating for his debut back in a home test at Hyderabad years back.  But the context is not the same. 

 

We are in the deciding test match of a historic possible series win, neither of those guys are Jansen or Jamieson esque special that we gamble on them.  Especially when the alternatives are proven commodities.  

 

I'm not saying those guys shouldn't get opportunities soon - I'd love to see what they can do too.  But the context has to be right.  

[Suhaan]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

When logic fails, create fake arguments to 'defeat'.  Where does Unadkat enter our discussion?  

 

At the time Boom made his way to the Indian test XI, it was not the juggernaut it is today.  I'm talking about the paceb bowling unit.  And arguably Ishant and Umesh have demonstrated and made their cases for squad selection much stronger in recent years, than it was back then. The need to try out an unproven prospect is nowhere near as pressing.  Context matters.  Copy-paste 'logic' often fails to take that into account.

What kind of logic failed?

Did you see which bowlers i listed,if you were factoring in FC stats ,i responded with Bumrah's FC numbers, his FC stats aren't different to Avesh's either,is it beyond logic?

Ishant and Umesh are getting old,yes context matters which you didn't bother to take into account,i only meant these two needed to be phased out,Ishant has been struggling to put even few spells let alone long spells,this will affect our chances even more

Who said Avesh, Prasidh our finished products neither were Umesh Ishant when they burst onto the scene

Umesh isn't that bad like Ishant,Umesh has a case in SC conditions and unlike Ishant has the fitness to bowl long spells with hostility

 

[express bowling]

21 minutes ago, sandeep said:

 

At the time Boom made his way to the Indian test XI, it was not the juggernaut it is today.  I'm talking about the paceb bowling unit.  And arguably Ishant and Umesh have demonstrated and made their cases for squad selection much stronger in recent years, than it was back then. 

 

 

Starting 2020 and before the start of this series,  Ishant has missed 8 or 9 of the 17 tests due to injury. And in one of the tests in England 2021, he was very floaty and looked out of energy.

 

The workhorse Ishant, who was an integral part of our pace bowling juggernaut from 2017 to 2019, is not available any more.

 

And Umesh was never good in tests outside Asia. 

[Lord]

Umesh is fine. Ishant is clearly declining/over the hill.

[Jay]

1 hour ago, sandeep said:

 

Sorry, but neither have demonstrated effectiveness anywhere near Siraj's level.  They simply have not.  I was, and am a strong advocate for Siraj, and was advocating for his debut back in a home test at Hyderabad years back.  But the context is not the same. 

 

We are in the deciding test match of a historic possible series win, neither of those guys are Jansen or Jamieson esque special that we gamble on them.  Especially when the alternatives are proven commodities.  

 

I'm not saying those guys shouldn't get opportunities soon - I'd love to see what they can do too.  But the context has to be right.  

You do realize saini outbowled Jansen in the A tour games right. Or atleast on par. I am sure we can try saini vs s.africa as a 3rd pacer.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Jay