India's chasing era gone for good?

[vvvslaxman]

7 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Again a random match. Same Uthappa sucked balls in multiple other chase situations.

 

From talking about chases, now you have shifted goalposts to how SA set a total despite losing early wickets! Today was a dry wicket, was likely to get slower, yet the stat padders kept looking for personal milestones against the relatively new ball.

 

lol Shamsi bowled so many half trackers. Even the one Pant got out  of phelu was pitched short. If you can't chase 6.44 asking rate with 25 overs then you shouldn't be playing. NOt the first time Pant has failed. or Rahul has failed while chasing. They have consistently failed in chasing matches. He was bloody batting at .4 How soon one has to come in to win a ODI match? May be he is looking for asking rate of like 4?  If he can't strike the ball in 25th over, how is he going to do against new ball?

Edited January 19, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[ShoonyaSifar]

19 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

 

Our MO/Lower order suck in all format. Not just ODI. Gross imbalance.  

The time period you have used 2019- till date, our middle order (4-7) is the second best in the world, barely a point lower than England (41.3 vs 40.3).

 

Our biggest issue is a bowling attack which is borderline the worst in the world  and an ageing top order which refuses to change its approach despite knowing limitations of the bowling attack (which means we are either 20-25 runs short when setting totals or concede 20-25 extra runs when bowling first)

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

The time period you have used 2019- till date, our middle order (4-7) is the second best in the world, barely a point lower than England (41.3 vs 40.3).

 

Our biggest issue is a bowling attack which is borderline the worst in the world  and an ageing top order which refuses to change its approach despite knowing limitations of the bowling attack (which means we are either 20-25 runs short when setting totals or concede 20-25 extra runs when bowling first)

 

Kohli is probably at his worst form in LOIs. Dhawan is past by sell date. KL Rahul is supposed to be at peak of his powers. Played phattu cricket and got out to a part timer. We said the same about KL Rahul not getting enough chances up the order. We even said he was made to feel insecure. Now he is the captain. Can't get any more secure than this. Still plays timid cricket. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

lol Shamsi bowled so many half trackers. Even the one Pant got out was pitched short. If you can't chase 6.44 asking rate with 25 overs then you shouldn't be playing. NOt the first time Pant has failed. or Rahul has failed while chasing. They have consistently failed in chasing matches. He was bloody batting at .4 How soon one has to come in to win a ODI match? May be he is looking for asking rate of like 4?  If he can't strike the ball in 25th over, how is he going to do against new ball?

'Consistently failed in chases' as if he has played 50 matches.

 

But I know why you are going hyper. On a ground where the 250+ had been chased just once abd average score is 240-250, the joke of a bowling conceded 296. This happens when old washed up jokes like Bhuvi and Ashwin keep getting recycled.

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

'Consistently failed in chases' as if he has played 50 matches.

 

But I know why you are going hyper. On a ground where the 250+ had been chased just once abd average score is 240-250, the joke of a bowling conceded 296. This happens when old washed up jokes like Bhuvi and Ashwin keep getting recycled.

 

 

There was no nortje no KG.   Ngidi is their main ODI bowler.  Even Thakur smashed him around.  They bowled like 26 overs of spin.  All they had to do was rotating the strike and preserving your wicket for final assault. It was a gettable target.  Hardly any turn was on the offer for spinners. Maharaja was just darting the ball. Shamsi was feeding half trackers every 3 balls.

[Vijy]

the thread can focus equally on our 1st innings batting. we have consistently been happy with tuk-tuking our way to low-300 scores even on pitches where 350+ is needed. top order is consistent, but oriented toward tuk-tuking and stat-padding. middle order is both unsettled and inconsistent, with the latter being driven by former. too much experience in top order; too little in middle and lower order. also need to find more ARs.

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

the thread can focus equally on our 1st innings batting. we have consistently been happy with tuk-tuking our way to low-300 scores even on pitches where 350+ is needed. top order is consistent, but oriented toward tuk-tuking and stat-padding. middle order is both unsettled and inconsistent, with the latter being driven by former. too much experience in top order; too little in middle and lower order. also need to find more ARs.

 

I agree. But whenever they get chances and handle situations which are manageable they should grab it with both hands. I think both sides are to blame. Kedar Jadhav for all his limitations put his hand up on more than one occasion as a lower order batsman.  Had very little chances. Made a memorable 120 in 76 balls batting at 6. Same way Yusuf Pathan almost pulled off a miracle in SA with a century batting low down the order.

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

I agree. But whenever they get chances and handle situations which are manageable they should grab it with both hands. I think both sides are to blame. Kedar Jadhav for all his limitations put his hand up on more than one occasion as a lower order batsman.  Had very little chances. Made a memorable 120 in 76 balls batting at 6. Same way Yusuf Pathan almost pulled off a miracle in SA with a century batting low down the order.

 Kedar Jadhav had a really good 1st half of his career. was scoring good runs at good SR and picking up useful wkts. once injuries, fitness issues, and age set in, he lost his way. a pity because he was a pretty dynamic player when in good form and fitness.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

 Kedar Jadhav had a really good 1st half of his career. was scoring good runs at good SR and picking up useful wkts. once injuries, fitness issues, and age set in, he lost his way. a pity because he was a pretty dynamic player when in good form and fitness.

 

Yes There was a period teams would be afraid of setting targets against India. Not anymore. 

[Sandeep99]

Why is no one talking about the fact that our bowlers almost always concede way above par totals? Back then Kohli used to chase those totals without much effort but now we started to realise it's difficult. Middle order needs to settle.. pick and stick with 3 guys. Let them experience failures until they finally figure out the way forward.

[vvvslaxman]

26 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said:

Why is no one talking about the fact that our bowlers almost always concede way above par totals? Back then Kohli used to chase those totals without much effort but now we started to realise it's difficult. Middle order needs to settle.. pick and stick with 3 guys. Let them experience failures until they finally figure out the way forward.

 

Not a single Indian bowler (if you exclude Sakaria against SL) has an ER less than 5 from India since 2019.  Bumrah 5.01 Jadeja 5.15. Bhuvi 5.29.  One of the main reason is we don't take wickets with new ball, don't wickets in the middle overs. Since the exit of Kulcha we don't focus on taking wickets.

 

   WOrst guys are  Saini 6.87 in 8 matches, Prasidh 6.91 in 3 matches Thakur 7.09 in 11 matches.

 

Kuldeep and Chahal as a par was good.But individually Kuldeep was unable to lead the attack. Most recently against England conceded 8 sixes in one innings. Stokes alone smashed him for 5 sixes. Prior to that he conceded another 84 runs in NZ.  Guys like Sodhi, Zampa do get hit around. But they don't completely give up.  I would gladly trade any Indian bowler except Bumrah  with Zampa.

Edited January 19, 2022 by vvvslaxman

[Vijy]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Not a single Indian bowler (if you exclude Sakaria against SL) has an ER less than 5 from India since 2019.  Bumrah 5.01 Jadeja 5.15. Bhuvi 5.29.  One of the main reason is we don't take wickets with new ball, don't wickets in the middle overs. Since the exit of Kulcha we don't focus on taking wickets.

 

   WOrst guys are  Saini 6.87 in 8 matches, Prasidh 6.91 in 3 matches Thakur 7.09 in 11 matches.

 

Kuldeep and Chahal as a par was good.But individually Kuldeep was unable to lead the attack. Most recently against England conceded 8 sixes in one innings. Stokes alone smashed him for 5 sixes. Prior to that he conceded another 84 runs in NZ.  Guys like Sodhi, Zampa do get hit around. But they don't completely give up.  I would gladly trade any Indian bowler except Bumrah  with Zampa.

neither Zampa nor Sodhi are that good in ODIs; they are very good in T20s though. Zampa is improving, but still has some way to go. need to unearth bowlers like rashid khan, not like zampa - which is a relatively low bar to clear; even chahal has a better overall record.

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Vijy said:

neither Zampa nor Sodhi are that good in ODIs; they are very good in T20s though. Zampa is improving, but still has some way to go. need to unearth bowlers like rashid khan, not like zampa - which is a relatively low bar to clear; even chahal has a better overall record.

All guys travel. Rashid was smashed for like 100 runs in the WC. Kulcha as a pair were good. Not sure if we can pair them up again as it is impossible to drop Jaddu.

[Vijy]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

All guys travel. Rashid was smashed for like 100 runs in the WC. Kulcha as a pair were good. Not sure if we can pair them up again as it is impossible to drop Jaddu.

Maybe the TM does not want to drop him, but in ODIs, he is definitely droppable. His avg is decent but a lot of runs came in matches that were virtually lost when he came to crease and his SR is problematic, even with recent improvements. As a bowler, he cannot take wkts at all and can hold up one end partly. Fielding is great of course.

 

This is not to bash Jaddu. In my all-time Test XI (a thread which I created), I would have him in the team.

[GautiMaan]

No.4 has to be identified first, are we looking at Pant to keep wickets in all formats and also shoulder the responsibility at 4? better to keep him as an X factor and give guys like Iyer and Surya a run.

If these guys cant hack it, there would be no wrong in moving Kohli to 4 and draft in Gill or Gaikwad at 3, if current crop of middle order bats are not good enough then the only option is to push the plethora of top order talent available to middle order spots.

 

[rollingstoned]

7 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

The time period you have used 2019- till date, our middle order (4-7) is the second best in the world, barely a point lower than England (41.3 vs 40.3).

 

Our biggest issue is a bowling attack which is borderline the worst in the world  and an ageing top order which refuses to change its approach despite knowing limitations of the bowling attack (which means we are either 20-25 runs short when setting totals or concede 20-25 extra runs when bowling first)

This is one area i would argue that we have fixed since the 2019 wc where we have good MO options incase the top order fails and they have contributed too. Problem is more fundamental i.e 

1) We just don't take wickets with the new ball as evidenced by the stats since 2019 where our average is the worst of all teams who have played this format plus no good leggies unlike when we had Kulcha

2) Our seniors are playing 90s style cricket where 300 is an excellent score and you should focus on not losing wickets in the PP. We used to bat more aggressively and score more quickly in the 00s which is just inexcusable imo.

[Vijy]

14 minutes ago, rollingstoned said:

This is one area i would argue that we have fixed since the 2019 wc where we have good MO options incase the top order fails and they have contributed too. Problem is more fundamental i.e 

1) We just don't take wickets with the new ball as evidenced by the stats since 2019 where our average is the worst of all teams who have played this format plus no good leggies unlike when we had Kulcha

2) Our seniors are playing 90s style cricket where 300 is an excellent score and you should focus on not losing wickets in the PP. We used to bat more aggressively and score more quickly in the 00s which is just inexcusable imo.

the great Boom since 2020 onward has an ODI bowling avg of 75, as pointed out by @express bowling. not so "great" figures. toothless and spineless - that describes our bowling "attack".

[Cricket_Hacker]

Pant is worth a try as an opener. Not sure how he would fit in though once Rohit's back.

[Vijy]

7 minutes ago, Cricket_Hacker said:

Pant is worth a try as an opener. Not sure how he would fit in though once Rohit's back.

yes, that is where he should be tried like jayasuria, gilly, etc. too many openers clogging and hogging the space though

[R!TTER]

You *ers watched this sh!tshow 

 

I gave up after that last test loss!