India's chasing era gone for good?

[Mesky99]

5 minutes ago, gattaca said:

The difference was Kohli was groomed at right time. Kohli as captain was very poor he didn’t select youngsters and groomed them properly. 

The Indian batting culture was different plus pitches in odi back then were flat, selectors were to be blamed, none of the batters were consistent then rahane, pandey, Kedar, Raina all flopped bar rayudu who then got dropped for Vijay shankar.

[vvvslaxman]

Deepak Chahar, Shreyas Iyer, SKY look like the guys who can chase total without the help of top order. Chahar did once successfully. Did it almost in SA singlehandedly.  Rest are cameo kings. Just play some cameo and get out.

[Nikhil_cric]

Today's pitch got tougher in the 2nd innings. And Toppley bowled like a demon in these conditions. Won't fault our battung too much. Fielding and Prasidh's bowling are bigger priorities.

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Today's pitch got tougher in the 2nd innings. And Toppley bowled like a demon in these conditions. Won't fault our battung too much. Fielding and Prasidh's bowling are bigger priorities.

 

Not impossible to chase down this total.  Bit of common sense was all needed.  If guys like Willy, Ali, Overton could survive against Shami/Bumrah and score runs, our middle order should be good enough to score against Topley and co.

[Vk1]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Not impossible to chase down this total.  Bit of common sense was all needed.  If guys like Willy, Ali, Overton could survive against Shami/Bumrah and score runs, our middle order should be good enough to score against Topley and co.

looks like it gets even more tougher to bat in 2nd innings on such pitches.. reminded me of our semis 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Vk1

[nevada]

32 minutes ago, Vk1 said:

looks like it gets even more tougher to bat in 2nd innings on such pitches.. reminded me of our semis 

What happened to English pitches? Weren't they full of runs with England piling up massive scores left and right? None of the present day LOI batsmen know the art of surviving swinging conditions. If the ball swings, they are like students who walk out of an exam hall crying "out of syllabus!"

[Vijy]

11 hours ago, putrevus said:

So which player has chased more 320 in any knockout match in history of cricket.let these bozos chase anything in regular matches first. 2019 semis is one match I blame Kohli others were gone before they came to bat. 

we were not chasing 320 in 2019 WC as you yourself wrote. moving on to CT 2017, his biggest failure there was as captain, and then as batter. Let's give Kohli a free pass for this, and for everything else too. he can play till 40 as far as I'm concerned. Ind cricket is so poor that adding one more out-of-form player makes no diff

Edited July 15, 2022 by Vijy

[Vijy]

10 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Deepak Chahar, Shreyas Iyer, SKY look like the guys who can chase total without the help of top order. Chahar did once successfully. Did it almost in SA singlehandedly.  Rest are cameo kings. Just play some cameo and get out.

S. Iyer chasing on any pitch with genuine bounce is a foregone outcome. they will pepper him with short balls and he will get out for 20-odd

[Vk1]

2 hours ago, nevada said:

What happened to English pitches? Weren't they full of runs with England piling up massive scores left and right? None of the present day LOI batsmen know the art of surviving swinging conditions. If the ball swings, they are like students who walk out of an exam hall crying "out of syllabus!"

 1 or 2 pitches seem to be aberration 

[Nikhil_cric]

12 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Not impossible to chase down this total.  Bit of common sense was all needed.  If guys like Willy, Ali, Overton could survive against Shami/Bumrah and score runs, our middle order should be good enough to score against Topley and co.

Not necessarily. Lord's is the toughest LOI batting pitch in England. It has had the lowest run rates in England for all venues at 5.28. And yesterday's pitch got really hard in the 2nd innings. 

 

Bumrah and Prasidh were poor with the ball and the catching/fielding effort meant that 247 was a pretty tough chase. Buttler also mentioned it was a bat first pitch. 

 

Granted, the batting wasn't fantastic.  But until Pandya's dismissal , the Cricviz ratings for bounce, bounce consistency and pace of the pitch were very high. 

 

By the time the pitch settled, we had lost too many wickets. Because by that time even shami could score easily. 

 

Difficult to make a strategy for such a variable pitch. The batting us not faultless but the fielding, bowling, changing pitch were bigger factors. 

[Vijy]

58 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Not necessarily. Lord's is the toughest LOI batting pitch in England. It has had the lowest run rates in England for all venues at 5.28. And yesterday's pitch got really hard in the 2nd innings. 

 

Bumrah and Prasidh were poor with the ball and the catching/fielding effort meant that 247 was a pretty tough chase. Buttler also mentioned it was a bat first pitch. 

 

Granted, the batting wasn't fantastic.  But until Pandya's dismissal , the Cricviz ratings for bounce, bounce consistency and pace of the pitch were very high. 

 

By the time the pitch settled, we had lost too many wickets. Because by that time even shami could score easily. 

 

Difficult to make a strategy for such a variable pitch. The batting us not faultless but the fielding, bowling, changing pitch were bigger factors. 

invert batting order partially. use likes of boom to open and either block or bash. what this team lacks apart from good players is good strategic and tactical nous.

[Nikhil_cric]

5 minutes ago, Vijy said:

invert batting order partially. use likes of boom to open and either block or bash. what this team lacks apart from good players is good strategic and tactical nous.

I think I posted in the match thread that the key to winning at Lord's is spin and a high release heavy length bowler to take advantage of the slope and so Chahal and Krishna had to step up. Chahal did but Krishna was the worst bowler and his fielding was even worse. 

 

On the other hand, England's high release bowler was exceptional.  

 

Expectations of Bumrah and Shami need to be toned down. They don't get a lot of bounce off a length and I don't think there is any evidence they ever did. 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Nikhil_cric

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

I think I posted in the match thread that the key to winning at Lord's is spin and a high release heavy length bowler to take advantage of the slope and so Chahal and Krishna had to step up. Chahal did but Krishna was the worst bowler and his fielding was even worse. 

 

On the other hand, England's high release bowler was exceptional.  

 

Expectations of Bumrah and Shami need to be toned down. They don't get a lot of bounce off a length and I don't think there is any evidence they ever did. 

they did get more in the past compared to now (albeit not high). the thread on "speeds of..." and "need bounce-based bowlers..." contain some info

[nevada]

8 hours ago, Vijy said:

S. Iyer chasing on any pitch with genuine bounce is a foregone outcome. they will pepper him with short balls and he will get out for 20-odd

It's sad that he has such a fatal faw. Temperament wise he is pretty good and has been very good in repairing the innings after loss of early wickets. Hope he works on his weakness with fast bowling machines hurling bouncers at him non-stop. 

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, nevada said:

It's sad that he has such a fatal faw. Temperament wise he is pretty good and has been very good in repairing the innings after loss of early wickets. Hope he works on his weakness with fast bowling machines hurling bouncers at him non-stop. 

 

Yes in recent times he has the highest middle order century partnerships. More than 50% involves Shreyas Iyer. He doesn't act like he needs someone to support him which is a good thing. Also once he is on a roll he makes it count like 2 fifties 1 century in New zealand back to back matches. He has few other times notched up consecutive 50s.  This is a workable weakness. He just has to learn to leave it either by ducking or weaving.

[putrevus]

Many players have flaws, Raina too had flaw against short pitch bowling too. But he played his part in international cricket. It is ridiculous to knock Iyer because he has issues with short pitch bowling.He has done reasonably well , who is there who is better than him waiting to take his spot.

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, nevada said:

It's sad that he has such a fatal faw. Temperament wise he is pretty good and has been very good in repairing the innings after loss of early wickets. Hope he works on his weakness with fast bowling machines hurling bouncers at him non-stop. 

I doubt if he can/will improve - let's see.