Deepak chahar should be an automatic choice in playing XI in one dayers

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

Yes, 3 frontline quicks - Bumrah, Siraj and Prasidh/Shami/xyz - to slot in at 9, 10 and 11.

 

2 spin AR in the form of Sundar and Axar would provide both variety and wicket taking threat.

 

And if our batting clicks massively up top, then depending on the conditions and opposition, the team can even play a specialist spinner like Bishnoi in place of Axar or Sundar.

 

With Bumrah, Siraj, Prasidh/xyz, Axar, and Sundar, India would be fielding probably the best all round attack in the tournament.

 

 

Agree.

 

And I personally prefer Jadeja at 7 and Sundar at 8.

 

 

[Majestic]

3 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

Sundar is in a different orbit altogether as a batsman. No need to bring in silly stats from limited sample size to make an absurd point.

 

Axar has underwhelmed with the bat in ODIs but he too is a vastly superior batsman compared to Chahar or any other pretender. His List A record as a batsman speaks for itself.

 

One lappebaaz knock from Chahar here and there is not impressing anyone.

The orbit which you are talking about makes sense in Test Cricket but you cannot play Test Cricket after coming to bat at no.7 in ODIs. He was given similar role for RCB in IPL and below are the figures he produced last year :-

 

AVG 7

SR 65

HS 10

 

Also, Axar's figures last year :-

 

AVG 8

SR 86

HS 12

 

These are laughable figures. Neither Washi not Axar have shown anything substantial with bat at highest level. The knock that Deepak Chahar played in Sri Lanka on a slow wicket is not something which a lapebaaz is capable of. It was a terrific inning under pressure and he followed it up in the very next chance he got in South Africa with a 50 odd under pressure again.

 

The fact that Washington and Axar don't have a 50 in any limited overs format even though they have been around for quite some time now tells us that they are just not capable of playing a substantial knock under pressure when the required rate is high. 

 

Shardul and Deepak both are easily better bets than Washi and Axar at no 7 and 8. Axar can be a good bet at 8 though for Indian conditions but that is assuming you drop Jadeja. However, in that case that no.7 spot is still open for a Shardul or Deepak.

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

... or the one pacer who can bat really well, i.e. H Pandya, can just stop being injured so much.  

 

 

Bro,  Hardik is a batsman who bowls some decent stuff if fit.

 

Treating him as a 3rd pacer cum 5th bowler have weaken our bowling a lot during Hardik's fitter ďays. 

 

We need to find a proper pacer who has some batting skills .. like Archer or Cummins. The WI used Marshall at 8.

 

Even better is having 2 spinner all-rounders + 3 proper quicks.

[express bowling]

Fast bowling is a very physically taxing thing. 

 

Pacers who try to focus on both disciplines often end up either getting injured or cutting down pace. Which is why there have been so few good pacer all-rounders over the last 50 years. 

 

While Spinner all-rounders are far safer bets like we see with Ashwin and Jadeja. And Axar and Sundar can go this way too.

 

 

[express bowling]

5 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

If Hardik rediscovers his batting mojo and slots in at 6 and is able to bowl, then India can choose between Axar and Jadeja purely on their bowling form. Or even choose to go with someone like Bishnoi if his bowling form warrants it.

 

 

If I were the captain, I would prefer a big hitting batting allrounder cum good bowler at 7 and a good bowler with hitting skills at 8.

 

As of today, Jadeja would be the front-runner at 7 for this reason. 

 

But what I would have done is ... tried Axar at 7 and Washington at 8 in LOIs against the WI and against SL after that ... to see if Axar can perform this role at 7.

 

 

[Lord]

5 bowlers isnt enough. We need atleast 6 bowling options and 6th can only be HP/Sundar

[Majestic]

4 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

The hell are you on about? Quoting IPL numbers for Axar and Sundar and then comparing their apparent lack of success with Chahar's lappebaazi in a couple of matches.

 

Try again. Or post their T20 batting av/sr and List A batting av/SR for a like to like comparison.

 

You got nothing. No amount of selective stats quoting here is going to convince anyone that Chahar the lappebaaz is better than Sundar and Axar in ANY format.

These are hilarious statements failing to produce any scientific data to showcase that Axar or Sundar are by any means a better bet with bat than Deepak or Shardul at the batting position we are discussing and again not willing to see the actual reality that the knock Chahar played in Sri Lanka is not something which a lapebaaz is capable of.

 

It is like comparing Virat Kohli to Manish Pandey and spouting nonsense that no amount of stats quoting will convince anyone that Kohli is a better batsman than Pandey lol 

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, Lord said:

5 bowlers isnt enough. We need atleast 6 bowling options and 6th can only be HP/Sundar

Exactly the point. This leaves us with five open options(7-11) to slot in players. The only standard formula is :-

 

1.Pick two genuine 140 Kph pacers who are your best bowlers.

 

2. The third pacer should be someone who can bat and play quick cameos. Deepak Chahar is the best bet for that as he is also a better bowler than Shardul and a wicket taker.

 

3. Two spinners. One of them would be either Jadeja or Axar.

 

4. Finally your no.6. If you get Hardik, that's great or else pick a batting spinner. Sundar can come in at 6 in that case.

[express bowling]

9 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

 

The decision is in the hands of our top order batsmen and selectors. Choose based on form. The more red hot the batting line up the less there would be haggling over marginal batting chops of our number 7 and 8.

 

 

Dravid has stated that Rohit,Dhawan and Kohli are no brainers at 1 to 3 in ODIs. (  as per his judgement or majboori  )

 

Which means we will increasingly see a preference for bowlers who can bat. I won't be surprised if in 2023 we look for the No.10 based on some batting ability too. 

 

We may see an influx of bits and pieces players like we saw with Jayant.

Edited February 6, 2022 by express bowling

[Lord]

Just now, sarchasm said:

 

Says who? When we won in 2011, the final saw only 4 frontline bowlers playing for India with Yuvi as AR. Kohli and Sachin bowled about 3 overs.

 

So no, 5 bowlers is absolutely enough. But if Pandya manages to bat in top 6 then it'd be a welcome cushion.

 

We are in 2022 now. ODIs have changed a lot.Both Eng and NZ used 6 bowlers in 2019 WC.

 

Can't use part timers these days

[Lord]

1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

 

Who's saying part timer? I am suggesting 3 frontline quicks and 2 spin AR out of Sundar, Axar and Jadeja.

 

India are playing at home. What's the point if they approach the matches fearfully looking to cover marginal roles instead of bullying teams with brute talent.

 

The search for 6th bowling option or a bowlers who can bat betrays FEAR. Not the way to go when you want to win a tournament.

 

5 bowlers will mean you can do nothing when a bowler gets hammered/injured. Also opposition can predict your bowling pattern as there won't be flexibility.

 

On current pattas,thats more than a realistic chance.

 

 

[Lord]

9 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Dravid has stated that Rohit,Dhawan and Kohli are no brainers at 1 to 3 in ODIs. (  as per his judgement or majboori  )

 

Which means we will increasingly see a preference for bowlers who can bat. I won't be surprised if in 2023 we look for the No.10 based on some batting ability too. 

 

We may see an influx of bits and pieces players like we saw with Jayant.

 

that's not the worst thing as long as bowling is considered first. We recently saw them fail to chase 10 in 3 overs.

 

Bumrah has improved enough to be no. 10. Can slot in someone like Siraj who can slog.

[Majestic]

Washington Sundar has played 31 T20I matches and 42 IPL matches and all he has got is a highest score of 14 in T20Is and 35 in IPL( when playing for a weak team).

 

His batting average is 6 and 14 respectively. His T20I strike rate is good but that is misleading as hell as his highest score is a meagre 14 so there is nothing substantial about it . He hasn't played a single worthy knock when asked to bat in the death overs. Asking him to bat at 7 or 8 is a lolworthy and extremely comical waste of a batting place in the Indian team. Absolute mockery of the whole selection!

Edited February 6, 2022 by Majestic

[vvvslaxman]

9 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Washington Sundar has played 31 T20I matches and 42 IPL matches and all he has got is a highest score of 14 in T20Is and 35 in IPL( when playing for a weak team).

 

His batting average is 6 and 14 respectively. His T20I strike rate is good but that is misleading as hell as his highest score is a meagre 14 so there is nothing substantial about it . He hasn't played a single worthy knock when asked to bat in the death overs. Asking him to bat at 7 or 8 is a lolworthy and extremely comical waste of a batting place in the Indian team. Absolute mockery of the whole selection!

 

In T20 he should strictly be considered as a bowler who can bowl inside powerplay. May be they can tactically push him up against left arm spinners , leg spinners.  Otherwise he is not a natural slogger. If India wants a leggie as well it will be a toss between him and Jadeja.  Jadeja can strike better, field better.

In one dayers he can do the resurrection role. Once settled down he can pick up the pace. Even for his state his role was not to slog. It was Sharukh that did the finishing job for Tamilnadu.  Sundar gave him company. 

[Lord]

1 minute ago, sarchasm said:

 

Bhai, this is not some nerdy accountancy task where you make sure bahi-khata are in order.

 

When you are playing 5 of your best quicks/spinners - in your own conditions - then you should expect them to come back strong if they leak in an over or two. Just as a captain cannot set field for bad shots from batsmen, you cannot as a team choose the false comfort of mediocre bowlers just because they can bat.

 

5 frontline bowlers means nonstop pressure on the opposition bats and a constant wicket taking threat.

 

If Dravid is also doing this accountancy work in his head about bowlers who can bat or 6 bowling options, then lord help us.

Every team does it. Already gave you example of 2019 WC.

 

Even the best can get smashed in ODIs these days. Its more regular than ever before. So cushion is needed.

 

Nonstop pressure on these pattas? Its the bowling under pressure more often.

 

HP/Sundar can bat in top 6 without much issues. Just because they can bowl doesnt mean you play them lower down. Use their bowling as extra option

[Majestic]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

In T20 he should strictly be considered as a bowler who can bowl inside powerplay. May be they can tactically push him up against left arm spinners , leg spinners.  Otherwise he is not a natural slogger. If India wants a leggie as well it will be a toss between him and Jadeja.  Jadeja can strike better, field better.

In one dayers he can do the resurrection role. Once settled down he can pick up the pace. Even for his state his role was not to slog. It was Sharukh that did the finishing job for Tamilnadu.  Sundar gave him company. 

And Sundar is not a 10 overs regular bowler either. He is someone who can become a clutch middle order batsman in ODIs to support Pant and SKY but for that he should have been tried at 5-6 rather than 7 or after 7.

 

[Vijy]

in ODIs: thakur is a slightly better bat, and deepak is a somewhat better bowler

 

only one of both should play unless we want to become ultra-defensive and stack batting at expense of bowling (which is a strategy that some teams have tried).

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Majestic said:

And Sundar is not a 10 overs regular bowler either. He is someone who can become a clutch middle order batsman in ODIs to support Pant and SKY but for that he should have been tried at 5-6 rather than 7 or after 7.

 

 

He probably was not a 10 over bowler before. He has improved now. What do we do with Jadeja now? We hide him between 10th and 40th overs most of the time. You could very well do the same with Sundar. But  Sundar can open the bowling against left handed openers from SENA countries. It is easy for Sundar to complete 10 overs in ODIs and even get away with powerplay overs. 

[Vijy]

5 hours ago, Majestic said:

There is only one true genuine all rounder in the history of game. That is Ian Botham. Rest all are either batting A/R or bowling A/R.  Hence, they all belong to the same group.

botham was a bowling AR. he had a purple patch at beginning of career, but even then he was a bowling AR who happened to avg close to 40. closest we have to a "balanced" AR is aubrey faulkner from the prehistoric era and shakib from the modern era; one could also add Sir Jaddu for the past several yrs.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Vijy

[Lord]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

botham was a bowling AR. he had a purple patch at beginning of career, but even then he was a bowling AR who happened to avg close to 40. closest we have to a "balanced" AR is aubrey faulkner from the prehistoric era and shakib from the modern era; one could also add Sir Jaddu for the past several yrs.

 

Cairns in ODIs was quite balanced