Hardik Pandya- the enforcer bowler may have shut door on Umran Malik World cup selection

[Chakdephatte]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Im saying loud n clear , he ll return with a BANG

 

But what will India gain. He is 33 and doesn't look like coming back anytime soon. I assume it will take 2 more years, he will be 35 then. He continues his purple patch till 37, maybe half year more. So overall, he has 5 years without much impact, and 2 great years. On other side, if he is dropped, it may inspire him to improve earlier.

[vvvslaxman]

For one thing they don't compete with each other. Umran is not getting a shot not because of Pandya but Umran himself. He is not fully ready yet.  Umran is an express fast bowler. He is the only one we have to maintain high pace.  Frankly in this format his pace can be utilized by batsman if he doesn't land right.  He needs to learn the art of setting up batsmen.. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

But what will India gain. He is 33 and doesn't look like coming back anytime soon. I assume it will take 2 more years, he will be 35 then. He continues his purple patch till 37, maybe half year more. So overall, he has 5 years without much impact, and 2 great years. On other side, if he is dropped, it may inspire him to improve earlier.

 

33 is fine, thats not the age when cricketers get done 

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, Majestic said:

 

So you have mentioned one T20 performance and one ODI performance and then mentioned a link which was 4 years ago to prove your point.

 

Hardik since his return has only bowled and succeeded in middle overs in one T20 game which was 1st T20 match vs England. He has mostly bowled two overs spell with new ball or one over upfront and one over in middle and that's it. Expecting him to do the bowler job is keeping the hope beyond delusion. He would barely bowl more than 2 overs in a t20 match and hence the comparison with middle overs enforcer is completely absurd here.

 

thats enough to suggest that its not a fluke and pick his IPL numbers also he has done that job for MI pretty well just lacked experience yet one season he was their 2nd best wkt taker 

He bowls with new thats great coz umran cant , so a bowler bowling in more situation is better . U dnt have to bowl 4 in middle specially when spinner, bumrah and harshal is also there. Anyways no captain likes to keep same bowler over after over 

 

12 hours ago, Majestic said:

Had he done that job 3-4 times( he played 5 matches vs SA, 2 vs Ireland, 3 vs England so 10 T20I matches), it would have been worth relying on him. But doing it once in 10 games doesn't solve the problem.

 

 

No he has done this in IPL for MI also 

And u will u rely on umran ? 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Now that being said Umran was never in contention for WT20 according to TM. 

if he wasnt he wudnt have been given a chance so close to Wc specially when arshdeep is also there and they wud love to have left armer in team 

Everyone who has gotten a chance in recent series is under contention . Shortlisting is going on 

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

Are hardik and Umran really competing with each other though? We could use more than 1 wicket taker in the middle phase going fwd and the express pace skill set is a different one to Hardiks more varied quiver of arrows. 

 

Erre yaar padho na .................its Role , Role , Role 

If hardik can do middle over enforcer role then they can easily add someone else to add different kind of variety 

12 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

to all those who has thought or may think that im saying hardik is better bowler then umran or hardik can play as bowler or whatever- Ghanta, dimaag ka ilaaj karao

 

All im saying everyone has a role- Umran role was going to be middle over enforcer which was his one n only strength . What im saying since pandya is doing that job now it makes umran case quite weak 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

10 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

For one thing they don't compete with each other. Umran is not getting a shot not because of Pandya but Umran himself. He is not fully ready yet.  Umran is an express fast bowler. He is the only one we have to maintain high pace.  Frankly in this format his pace can be utilized by batsman if he doesn't land right.  He needs to learn the art of setting up batsmen.. 

Role Role Role 

Umran is not getting a shot becoz of pandya but he had one strong area if someone else cover then he looses that advantage too ..............simple

 

Its same with DK, DK and umran are in a way coz they can only do one role but what they can do is rare ,...............if someone else starts doing their role their position is gone coz then they are not needed and they have no other utility even in their primary skill . Simple ..........confusion kya hai 

 

[maniac]

Pandya has improved his bowling a serval notches. Can’t argue against that.. However how long can he sustain it especially at a meaningful time  needs to be seen with 2 WC’s coming up. 
 

can’t compare Umran with Pandya. Umran’s only X factor is his express pace and he is unique in that aspect. Pandya is unique in his own way. It’s like comparing Ben Stokes with Jofra Archer or Neesham with Ferguson.

[vvvslaxman]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Role Role Role 

Umran is not getting a shot becoz of pandya but he had one strong area if someone else cover then he looses that advantage too ..............simple

 

Its same with DK, DK and umran are in a way coz they can only do one role but what they can do is rare ,...............if someone else starts doing their role their position is gone coz then they are not needed and they have no other utility even in their primary skill . Simple ..........confusion kya hai 

 

 

if Pandya bats like Chahal do you think he will even have a shot? I don't think he will even be in the squad.

[Chakdephatte]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

33 is fine, thats not the age when cricketers get done 

 

You never read the full thing, do you?

[express bowling]

I seriously doubt that Umran was in any serious contention for this T20 World Cup. He lacks a stock delivery. 

 

And Umran is not an enforcer pacer yet. Around 70% of his short balls are just waist high long hops. More than release speeds, it is the height, direction and zip off the deck which are important for bowling good bouncers.

 

Enforcer pacers are able to bowl atleast 70% of their short balls with steep bounce and zip off the deck ... which Umran can't at the moment. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by express bowling

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

if Pandya bats like Chahal do you think he will even have a shot? I don't think he will even be in the squad.

 

if pandya bats like chahal ??? or bowls like ?

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

11 hours ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

You never read the full thing, do you?

i did , i just plainly disagree to the part that he wont come in form anytime  soon . He will within next few months he will 

Even if he serves 5 yrs that more then enough, ur getting 5 yrs of kohli not some random batsman . 5 yrs is basically most batsman peak in entire careers 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

wud that not make him compete with jadeja and those 2 guys are excellent fielder 

So thei wud be a lot of ground to cover for them 

 

yes but if he starts doing both he ll become a threat to jaddu first as pandya is a seaming all rounder. If shadab played for india he wud have been a threat to jaddu not pandya

 

One of the reason a guy like Jaddu still survives in T20 is because of TINA factor.  Even an inform Kedar Jadhav would be a threat to Jaddu

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

One of the reason a guy like Jaddu still survives in T20 is because of TINA factor.  Even an inform Kedar Jadhav would be a threat to Jaddu

jaddu has alternatives in t20 but - axar and krunal , sundat too 

He is surviving now coz of his overall value - as batsman his game is more developed then other 3 and fielding was always top notch 

bowling- all of them are better then him in t20

 

If ur just talking about just t20- jadhav was never a threat coz he was never good in that format . 

In ODI yes he was a threat and did his job well too 

[vvvslaxman]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

jaddu has alternatives in t20 but - axar and krunal , sundat too 

He is surviving now coz of his overall value - as batsman his game is more developed then other 3 and fielding was always top notch 

bowling- all of them are better then him in t20

 

If ur just talking about just t20- jadhav was never a threat coz he was never good in that format . 

In ODI yes he was a threat and did his job well too 

 

Jaddu  bowls the safest overs of an innings.  Can't accelerate like  a typical T20 lower order should do.  Doesn't show intent until like 20th over or so.  An useless entity still clinging to his place in the name of "balance". Only place where he can be useful is fielding.

[Ankit_sharma03]

17 hours ago, maniac said:

Pandya has improved his bowling a serval notches. Can’t argue against that.. However how long can he sustain it especially at a meaningful time  needs to be seen with 2 WC’s coming up. 
 

can’t compare Umran with Pandya. Umran’s only X factor is his express pace and he is unique in that aspect. Pandya is unique in his own way. It’s like comparing Ben Stokes with Jofra Archer or Neesham with Ferguson.

u didnt get pandya

 

Umran X factor is pace- no one denying it which only n only he has in India 

but his role is - middle over enforcer

Problem - his other bowling skills like new ball, death over bowling , consistency , control is an issue

 

So if pandya does his role they can think of not taking umran coz then his problems look more then his only strength. Earlier being middle over enforcer was his strength coz we dont have many who can do that but if pandya does that he is only left with one Pro- Express pace. Its pros vs cons

 

Stokes vs Archer

Archer is a full phase highly skilled bowler - stokes isnt , neither is umran. 

If umran was as devloped as archer forget pandya he wud have been a threat to every bowler in world cricket 

 

Stokes vs Neesham

Yes they do same role 

 

stokes vs Lockie

Lockie is a middle over enforcer like Umran . But now diff vs Lockie and umran is - Umran isnt established, NZ dont have enough options in bowling dept 

IF lockie was a newbie struggling with Umran problems and stokes was doing middle over enforcer role and NZ had more options , yes lockie spot wud have been in a problem

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Jaddu  bowls the safest overs of an innings.  Can't accelerate like  a typical T20 lower order should do.  Doesn't show intent until like 20th over or so.  An useless entity still clinging to his place in the name of "balance". Only place where he can be useful is fielding.

i dnt wanna debate regd jaddu, coz i agree to all what ur saying 

I have given upon on dream of getting rid of jaddu in t20i. 

Kuch bhi keh lo karlo .......jayega jaddu hi and we have to live with it 

 

 

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

I seriously doubt that Umran was in any serious contention for this T20 World Cup. He lacks a stock delivery. 

 

And Umran is not an enforcer pacer yet. Around 70% of his short balls are just waist high long hops. More than release speeds, it is the height, direction and zip off the deck which are important for bowling good bouncers.

 

Enforcer pacers are able to bowl atleast 70% of their short balls with steep bounce and zip off the deck ... which Umran can't at the moment. 

Umran is like early career Steyn at the moment - not saying they are exactly the same, but they have some promising aspects and some notable weaknesses.

 

only time will tell whether umran becomes nantie hayward or he becomes more of a steyn/bond.

[zen]

My T20 bowlers (need a team with 4 pace option unless the pitch supports spin) 

 

4 pacers

Bumrah

Moshin

Umran

SDP 

 

Spinners

Yuzi or equivalent (main wkt taking spinner) 

Hooda  (support spinner)

Sundar (spinner) or Tewatia (support spinner)